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#4430446 - 07/15/18 04:07 PM Re: DCS MAC - Modern Aircraft Combat [Re: Sokol1]  
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I'm looking forward to it. I own FC3 already, but would like FC3 fidelity versions of the other modules that are being included.


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#4430449 - 07/15/18 04:34 PM Re: DCS MAC - Modern Aircraft Combat [Re: Pooch]  
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Originally Posted by Pooch
You guys are looking at this from the vantage point of someone who already owns some of this stuff. They're going after the ones out there who don't. I just don't see anything wrong with that. The success of BOX should show that this is what most people want. It's a beautiful game, with just enough complexity to make it interesting but simple enough that anybody can get in and fly those airplanes. That's who they're going after. And those people aren't worrying about whether airplanes aren't matched up correctly. There's a bigger market for survey sims such as that than there is for DCS study types. This could be a real moneymaker if it's marketed correctly.
It's a buisiness, boys. And that's where the money is.



+1


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#4430503 - 07/16/18 12:05 AM Re: DCS MAC - Modern Aircraft Combat [Re: Pooch]  
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Paradaz Offline
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Originally Posted by Pooch
You guys are looking at this from the vantage point of someone who already owns some of this stuff. They're going after the ones out there who don't. I just don't see anything wrong with that. The success of BOX should show that this is what most people want. It's a beautiful game, with just enough complexity to make it interesting but simple enough that anybody can get in and fly those airplanes. That's who they're going after. And those people aren't worrying about whether airplanes aren't matched up correctly. There's a bigger market for survey sims such as that than there is for DCS study types. This could be a real moneymaker if it's marketed correctly.
It's a buisiness, boys. And that's where the money is.


And what happens when MAC owners want to venture online?.........can they only play on servers with other MAC players due to balancing and fairplay because ED are making changes to already released aircraft! There is a real danger here of yet another dev branch and split player base.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4430533 - 07/16/18 08:03 AM Re: DCS MAC - Modern Aircraft Combat [Re: malibu43]  
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Winfield Offline
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Originally Posted by malibu43
I'm looking forward to it. I own FC3 already, but would like FC3 fidelity versions of the other modules that are being included.


They started it with a couple of FC3 aircraft with updated flight model, then a number cruncher or community manager came to the conclusion that

"we are losing money on this by giving free updated models to FC3 owners, how about we bring out a new addition and charge EVERYONE for the flight model updates, not just those who do not own FC3"

pretty much bang on with what actually took place behind the scenes with this new MAC version. To get it over the line, they added already released aircraft, 75% of those released are by Belsimtek. You know? the guys who do 75% of the work on all modules marketed by ED

I recall somewhere over at ED someone in a high place confirming that the FC3 aircraft would eventually be updated as was the F-15C with a new flight model, this proves that FC3 will now remain completely untouched in it's current state.

#4430570 - 07/16/18 02:12 PM Re: DCS MAC - Modern Aircraft Combat [Re: Paradaz]  
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Originally Posted by Paradaz
can they only play on servers with other MAC players due to balancing and fairplay because ED are making changes to already released aircraft!


When has that even been shown to be a concern?

#4430589 - 07/16/18 03:49 PM Re: DCS MAC - Modern Aircraft Combat [Re: Winfield]  
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Originally Posted by Winfield
[quote=malibu43]
this proves that FC3 will now remain completely untouched in it's current state.


Incorrect. FC3 aircraft owners will still get any updates, such as the PFM for the Mig-29, for free.


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#4430603 - 07/16/18 07:02 PM Re: DCS MAC - Modern Aircraft Combat [Re: cichlidfan]  
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Originally Posted by cichlidfan
Originally Posted by Winfield
[quote=malibu43]
this proves that FC3 will now remain completely untouched in it's current state.


Incorrect. FC3 aircraft owners will still get any updates, such as the PFM for the Mig-29, for free.


Yup. MIG-29 PFM is coming the end of this year if I recall. All the FC3 aircraft have the new cockpit, external model and other enhancements. All that is left is the MIG-29 PFM. Even if they wanted to bait and switch, it is too late because 90% of the updates have already been released for FC3 owners.

Reality is a sizeable number of players wanted another module like the FC3 aircraft. Except ED has no interest in making these modules anymore, and apparently neither do the 3rd party developers. So they took some of their already released, and rather simple aircraft, and made the controls behave more similarly to FC3, as well as some other avionic simplifications I assume. The aircraft they chose were simple enough as it was so I can't imagine a lot of effort will be spent making them simplified. Essentially they're throwing a bone to FC3 players. It is better than nothing, but not exactly that exciting. But it seems no one is interesting in investing the time and money for a medium fidelity aircraft. They all want to chase cockpit clickers which raises the price (and development time/money) and limits the aircraft selection further.

A large reason LOMAC/FC was popular is due to the aircraft choice. The extra aircraft in MAC are fairly uninteresting. A basic F-5E which can carry two air to air missiles and a a few rocket pods? Not that exciting. Trainer aircraft? Really only interesting to the cockpit clicker crowd. F-86 and MIG-15? Same, they're simple enough that I can't even image there is much of a difference. MIG-21BIS is an okay choice, but it is an aircraft you'd do after the more interesting ones are done.

So it is certainly better than nothing, but many of us won't be that interested until they do an F-18 and F-16 or similar. From the sounds of it, that will not be happening.

#4430619 - 07/16/18 09:18 PM Re: DCS MAC - Modern Aircraft Combat [Re: Frederf]  
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Originally Posted by Frederf
Originally Posted by Paradaz
can they only play on servers with other MAC players due to balancing and fairplay because ED are making changes to already released aircraft!


When has that even been shown to be a concern?


Well, it's clearly a concern now when you join a multiplayer server and there's FC3 aircraft spamming the skies with simplistic missile launches. This surely only adds to the fun, or lack of it.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4430755 - 07/17/18 04:32 PM Re: DCS MAC - Modern Aircraft Combat [Re: Sokol1]  
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Here we go again, yet another repackaging of what is basically 2003's Lock On. How many more times are they going to try this?

I anxiously waited for the original Lock On. When I finally got it, i didn't like it. I bought Flaming Cliffs willing to give it another try. Still didn't like it. I bought A-10C. Didn't like it. Even had the super expensive A-10 HOTAS.

I bought Flaming Cliffs 3 after thinking maybe I would like the simplified stuff. Nope, didn't like it. After that I said "never again" to buying DCS sims, even though their flashy videos always tempt me.

My point here is basically "Are they REALLY going to attract many new people to the series with this?" I lived and breathed flight sims for the first 20 years of my life. I played every single one I could get my hands on. It was my absolute favorite genre of game. I'm not going to touch MAC. If they can't get me into the game, I can't possibly see them getting people who have grown up on first person shooters, and maybe flying aircraft on ARMA or Battlefield into the game. If it is on Steam, I predict they'll sucker in a few people with the sweet looking video, who will then get into the game and realize it is nothing like what the video shows, and refund before they hit the 2 hour playtime mark.

Wasn't FC3 supposed to do the same thing? Draw in more casual players with simplified planes? That didn't really work, did it?


Sure was a beautiful video though. Credit where credit is due, the graphics are very pretty overall.


I refuse to buy a flight sim that I have no interest in playing, on the off chance that MAYBE someday they'll make the one I really want to play.

#4430777 - 07/17/18 06:19 PM Re: DCS MAC - Modern Aircraft Combat [Re: HogDriver]  
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Originally Posted by HogDriver
Here we go again, yet another repackaging of what is basically 2003's Lock On. How many more times are they going to try this?

I anxiously waited for the original Lock On. When I finally got it, i didn't like it. I bought Flaming Cliffs willing to give it another try. Still didn't like it. I bought A-10C. Didn't like it. Even had the super expensive A-10 HOTAS.

I bought Flaming Cliffs 3 after thinking maybe I would like the simplified stuff. Nope, didn't like it. After that I said "never again" to buying DCS sims, even though their flashy videos always tempt me.

My point here is basically "Are they REALLY going to attract many new people to the series with this?" I lived and breathed flight sims for the first 20 years of my life. I played every single one I could get my hands on. It was my absolute favorite genre of game. I'm not going to touch MAC. If they can't get me into the game, I can't possibly see them getting people who have grown up on first person shooters, and maybe flying aircraft on ARMA or Battlefield into the game. If it is on Steam, I predict they'll sucker in a few people with the sweet looking video, who will then get into the game and realize it is nothing like what the video shows, and refund before they hit the 2 hour playtime mark.

Wasn't FC3 supposed to do the same thing? Draw in more casual players with simplified planes? That didn't really work, did it?


Sure was a beautiful video though. Credit where credit is due, the graphics are very pretty overall.


You can simply upgrade, no need to re-purchase the older planes. Now how much will the upgrade cost for the other five aircraft? I'm not sure, but I can't imagine it will be cheap.

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