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#4426097 - 06/14/18 10:06 AM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: Mokkeri]  
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xXNightEagleXx Offline
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Originally Posted by Mokkeri

You can get combat as much as you like. There is mission editor and mission generator. That generator will make same kind of boring missions, just like that dynamic campaign on other simulation.



....so you are complaining about boring mission generated by dynamic campaign.....hum....let me get this straight

Real world combat is made of some boring task (eg. patrol) that might lead or not to contact which is partially what BMS DC does. That's one of the beautiful of a DC (together with the fact that everything is connected), start a mission either boring or not and get everything screwed up due to unexpected high threat contact. However it seems that what you are asking for is not a real combat scenario simulator but rather a Hollywood movie combat scenario fulfilled with actions and who knows even things like help ground troops to save private ryan.

I believe that if someone does not like some types of missions why not just skip them?

Last edited by xXNightEagleXx; 06/14/18 01:10 PM.
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#4426107 - 06/14/18 11:03 AM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: Sobek]  
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IceecI Offline
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Originally Posted by Sobek
Originally Posted by Frederf
In conventional airplanes flap extension has a significant negative pitch moment component and usually a net moment in the same direction. F/A-18 isn't a conventional design.


That really wasn't the question, though. Also as per the latest patch notes, the pitch down upon extending flaps has been resolved.


I'm afraid that's impossible since there wasn't anything wrong at the first place, that's why you suggested that I'm wrong. I just hope they fix real life planes too, since when using flaps planes get this tendency to nose down, man was I wrong it always thought flaps are for increasing lift.


Give a man fish and he gets food, give a man a fishing rod and he asks for another one.
#4426110 - 06/14/18 11:20 AM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: xXNightEagleXx]  
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Mokkeri Offline
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Originally Posted by xXNightEagleXx
Originally Posted by Mokkeri

You can get combat as much as you like. There is mission editor and mission generator. That generator will make same kind of boring missions, just like that dynamic campaign on other simulation.



....so you are complaining of boring mission generated by dynamic campaign.....hum....let me get this straight

Real world combat is made of some boring task (eg. patrol) that might lead or not to contact which is partially what BMS DC does. That's one of the beautiful of a DC (together with the fact that everything is connected), start a mission either boring or not and get everything screwed up due to unexpected high threat contact. However it seems that what you are asking for is not a real combat scenario simulator but rather a Hollywood movie combat scenario fulfilled with actions and who knows even things like help ground troops to save private ryan.

I believe that if someone does not like some types of missions why not just skip them?


No i dont complain anything. I just say that even DCS can offer COMBAT as much you want.

#4426111 - 06/14/18 11:25 AM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: IceecI]  
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Drop down is still there , but not so strong anymore. Much better now.


I5 8400 , 16gb , GTX 1070 oc , Win10 64bit . Virpil T-50 27" monitor with 2560x1440 rez ... DCS + Oculus CV1 + Samsung Odyssey . (odyssey is better for flight sims)
#4426112 - 06/14/18 11:30 AM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: - Ice]  
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I
Originally Posted by - Ice
"It is the best but it's not good"???

I do agree, the DC and AI can be quirky sometimes but I chalk that up to the (imaginary) enemy being unpredictable smile That, and I blame 90's tech! biggrin Still can't see how you're comparing it to the DCS mission generator though. Yes, you can make a very complex mission in DCS that will seem like it was from a DC but 1) that will take a lot of work and most likely a lot of testing, 2) it will have limited replayability, and 3) it will be even more work tying in one mission to the next. The DCS mission generator and mission editor are for people who enjoy making and testing missions. The BMS DC is for people who want to pretend to be combat pilots smile


I agree. BMS DC may not be perfect.

But it makes your actions mater and thats is single one big thing in dcs what i miss. DC gives reason to take sam’s out from frontline so your strikers can get in.. etc..

Dcs mission generator is #%&*$# for now. All missions require lots of work to get idiotics out from them. And still they are just single missions.


I5 8400 , 16gb , GTX 1070 oc , Win10 64bit . Virpil T-50 27" monitor with 2560x1440 rez ... DCS + Oculus CV1 + Samsung Odyssey . (odyssey is better for flight sims)
#4426122 - 06/14/18 12:31 PM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: Haukka81]  
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Originally Posted by Mokkeri
No i dont complain anything. I just say that even DCS can offer COMBAT as much you want.

DCS can offer combat to a degree, yes. As much as you want"? Not without extensive use of the mission generator and mission editor. Maybe that's why you get boring missions as DCS can only offer so much and the rest relies on the user to enhance the experience? I don't doubt at all that a talented mission designer can put 10-20 hours of work and come up with a mission that will be fun to fly in for 1-3 hours duration, but how long can he keep doing this for free? So let's compensate him by making his missions and (scripted) campaigns as DLC, and the next question would be how many campaigns can you really buy before the cumulative costs just gets silly? Not to mention the talented mission designer would constantly have to tweak and fix his work to keep up with ED's constant changes.

I find it funny as well that at first you say the missions are boring but next thing you say is it can offer as much combat as desired? Which one is it? So it can offer us as many boring missions as we can take? Who wants to fly boring missions? biggrin



Originally Posted by Haukka81
I agree. BMS DC may not be perfect.
But it makes your actions mater and thats is single one big thing in dcs what i miss. DC gives reason to take sam’s out from frontline so your strikers can get in.. etc..
Dcs mission generator is #%&*$# for now. All missions require lots of work to get idiotics out from them. And still they are just single missions.

Not just that. Before I left DCS, I was experimenting with ways on how to frag ground attack missions and I was left with having to "hide" infantry or a tank under a bridge in order to "detect" the bridge destruction. Okay, that was a workaround.... is there something like this available now for DCS? The next thing that bugged me was that I could successfully destroy the bridge this mission but on the next one, the bridge is there again unless I script something beforehand that would blow up the bridge. Again, a workaround. Is there something that will do this now for DCS?

The biggest appeal for me regarding the DC is the persistence of my previous actions. Take out a bridge? The enemy can no longer use it but at the same time, repair of the captured airbase may take longer as my own units will have to go a long way. Take out an airfield? Enjoy the next 2-3 missions flying over safe airspace.

Did I mention all of that is done by the engine itself and no need for a talented mission designer to sacrifice his time and effort? smile


- Ice
#4426135 - 06/14/18 01:29 PM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: Mokkeri]  
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xXNightEagleXx Offline
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Originally Posted by Mokkeri
Originally Posted by xXNightEagleXx
Originally Posted by Mokkeri

You can get combat as much as you like. There is mission editor and mission generator. That generator will make same kind of boring missions, just like that dynamic campaign on other simulation.



....so you are complaining of boring mission generated by dynamic campaign.....hum....let me get this straight

Real world combat is made of some boring task (eg. patrol) that might lead or not to contact which is partially what BMS DC does. That's one of the beautiful of a DC (together with the fact that everything is connected), start a mission either boring or not and get everything screwed up due to unexpected high threat contact. However it seems that what you are asking for is not a real combat scenario simulator but rather a Hollywood movie combat scenario fulfilled with actions and who knows even things like help ground troops to save private ryan.

I believe that if someone does not like some types of missions why not just skip them?


No i dont complain anything. I just say that even DCS can offer COMBAT as much you want.



What do you mean by as much as you want? You mean casual combat? Then yes it does, but it does not go beyond the random combat scenario with NO MEANING (cause and consequences).

About editor tweaked missions, first of all let's face that the tool is rather limited (eg. cannot even start with environment objective destructed without any tricky workaround, at least till last time i played with it). Second, ok good you did a really well made mission, problem is that it will be like any other campaign mission in DCS...unreplayable as f**k....... you failed the mission? aborted due to risk or failures? DCS has simply crashed? Well just re-do everything you have done.......

Besides most missions are designed so that success is the only option even when the task is unrealistic as f**k (like taking down SAMs with a ....... A-10.... XD....who cares there are more appropriate aircrafts) or would result in mission aborted in RL.

DCS goes from a good airframe flight model experience to a joke combat experience due to meaningless and unreplayable missions and stupid missiles FM.

Last edited by xXNightEagleXx; 06/14/18 01:31 PM.
#4426143 - 06/14/18 02:00 PM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: usafmtl40]  
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Hehehe.... yes, get as much combat as you want, but all of them with borked missile performance characteristics smile


- Ice
#4426152 - 06/14/18 03:10 PM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: IceecI]  
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Sobek Offline
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Originally Posted by IceecI

I'm afraid that's impossible since there wasn't anything wrong at the first place, that's why you suggested that I'm wrong. I just hope they fix real life planes too, since when using flaps planes get this tendency to nose down, man was I wrong it always thought flaps are for increasing lift.


I never said that there's nothing wrong with the Hornet. You are clearly misrepresenting my posts.

Your statement of planes in general exhibiting a pitch up moment on flap deployment was wrong though. There are planes that pitch up, there are other planes that pitch down.

I'll help you freshen up your memory:

Originally Posted by Sobek
Originally Posted by IceecI
but putting flaps down certainly doesn't make your plane's nose to pitch down... like .. ever.


Depending on the type, that is actually very wrong. As mentioned in another thread, there are aircraft that have a considerable pitch down tendency when the flaps are deployed. Whether this is the case for the Hornet i do not know, but the above statement is certainly not true.

Last edited by Sobek; 06/14/18 03:32 PM.
#4426159 - 06/14/18 04:09 PM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: Sobek]  
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IceecI Offline
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Originally Posted by Sobek
Originally Posted by IceecI

I'm afraid that's impossible since there wasn't anything wrong at the first place, that's why you suggested that I'm wrong. I just hope they fix real life planes too, since when using flaps planes get this tendency to nose down, man was I wrong it always thought flaps are for increasing lift.


I never said that there's nothing wrong with the Hornet. You are clearly misrepresenting my posts.

Your statement of planes in general exhibiting a pitch up moment on flap deployment was wrong though. There are planes that pitch up, there are other planes that pitch down.

I'll help you freshen up your memory:

Originally Posted by Sobek
Originally Posted by IceecI
but putting flaps down certainly doesn't make your plane's nose to pitch down... like .. ever.


Depending on the type, that is actually very wrong. As mentioned in another thread, there are aircraft that have a considerable pitch down tendency when the flaps are deployed. Whether this is the case for the Hornet i do not know, but the above statement is certainly not true.


You conveniently misunderstand my post, very nice. Feel free.


Give a man fish and he gets food, give a man a fishing rod and he asks for another one.
#4426178 - 06/14/18 06:17 PM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: Sobek]  
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Frederf Offline
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Originally Posted by Sobek
Originally Posted by Frederf
In conventional airplanes flap extension has a significant negative pitch moment component and usually a net moment in the same direction. F/A-18 isn't a conventional design.


That really wasn't the question, though. Also as per the latest patch notes, the pitch down upon extending flaps has been resolved.

I know.
I know that originally there was a pitch down.
I know that it was brought to our attention that it should be a pitch up.
I know that the conventional moment is pitch down.
I know that ED acknowledged it and is changing it.

Who I'm talking to is the sloth-speed ED defenders that are still stuck in second gear defending the wrong simulation behavior because they defend instead of investigate as that is their mandate, not you.

#4426214 - 06/15/18 12:31 AM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice

Originally Posted by Faulkner
I don't know what to make of Ice, he seems upset, or makes comments that are inexplicable or contradictory because he has to win the argument or he has to be the SME on everything, despite their being no argument, attacks people despite posts that echo basically the same opinion, effectively supporting him or the same view. I don't want to say these things, but I don't know what the f### is happening. There may be more than one person in there, or he may now actually be a fanboy. I think he secretly has a thing for ED despite his posts, can't come to grips with it, or he may be confused. I know he wants to take over the forum or whatever thread he gets involved in, to root it out wherever it may be, although at times the posts don't make sense and come out of both sides of his mouth, and I can't understand what he's talking about.


What is SME?


SME = "Subject Matter Expert"

#4426235 - 06/15/18 03:25 AM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: usafmtl40]  
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bisher Offline
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I think Ice is a mole planted by ED.

Creating derision in the community increases sales.

For every hater there is a fanboy. wink


Stick to addressing message content, and refrain from hanging labels on other forum members.

Last edited by CyBerkut; 06/15/18 12:29 PM. Reason: Moderation


#4426295 - 06/15/18 03:35 PM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: bisher]  
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LOL, me a SME? Others know more about the history and failings of ED. I'm just the more vocal one smile


Originally Posted by bisher
I think Ice is a mole planted by ED.

How'd you come up with that wild idea?


Originally Posted by bisher
For every hater there is a fanboy.

I assume you refer to me as being the hater? Clearly you've not been reading some of my posts!!


Quote
Stick to addressing message content, and refrain from hanging labels on other forum members.

Especially as the OP doesn't like pissing contests in his threads! smile Cheers Cy!


- Ice
#4426356 - 06/16/18 05:22 AM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: usafmtl40]  
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Winfield Offline
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Originally Posted by Mokkeri
Originally Posted by Force10
Originally Posted by AggressorBLUE

I know that according to everyone else here I'm supposed to hate it, and I'm a terrible person for daring to think that graphics are important, daring to enjoy a product that doesn't have every single aspect of the real aircraft functional, and daring to enjoy something ED has made. And I know that by giving ED my money I've clearly perpetuated a cycle of evil that is ruining the very fabric of our lives. And of course the only way for ED to be defeated is for good, morally upstanding people to stop giving them money.

I'll probably be banned for saying all that, because it is the sole purpose of every flight sim ever to only be about #thesystems.


Sorry SHQ, it was fun while it lasted!


Nothing really wrong with the statement. Not personally attacking any individuals and not hating on SimHQ itself for allowing harsh criticism to be shared. wink

Many of us are waiting for ED to focus on the Combat portion of their Digital Combat Simulation. Sadly...as you have shown...unfinished "shiny" sells, while an engaging lively battlefield with competent AI and dynamic campaigns do not. There are other sims I can fly if I just want flick switches and admire graphics and flight models.

I want to be a Combat pilot...dammit!



You can get combat as much as you like. There is mission editor and mission generator. That generator will make same kind of boring missions, just like that dynamic campaign on other simulation.


What is intriguing is that 95% of the youtube video's are of landing tutorials on the carrier, the 'stingers' PLAT camera landings and countless reproductions from RL pilots and said RL pilots giving tutorials on correct LSO\pilot vocabulary on landing on a ship. Stuff all related to combat tutorials.

This makes me think that all the gripes regarding the hornet release after all these years and all people can do with it is land on a ship. I'll hold off for another 12 months before I invest 100AUD to the cause. Mind you, the "c" varient that Australia own all have tail hooks yet we don't have carriers. Surely it has more potential than grading on a carrier and catching the 3rd wire.

#4426376 - 06/16/18 11:34 AM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: usafmtl40]  
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Tom_Weiss Online content
>>> P3Dv4+Il-2 = !!!
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like Canada, Australia owns early model F/A-18A upgraded to late F/A-18C standards, which are equivalent to very early F/A-18E models.

#4426391 - 06/16/18 01:23 PM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: - Ice]  
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bisher Offline
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Originally Posted by - Ice

Originally Posted by bisher
I think Ice is a mole planted by ED.

How'd you come up with that wild idea?

BUSTED Ice! wink

Originally Posted by bisher
For every hater there is a fanboy.

Originally Posted by -Ice
I assume you refer to me as being the hater? Clearly you've not been reading some of my posts!!

I prefer the reader draw their own inferences. If you are having to assume, that says something

Quote
Stick to addressing message content, and refrain from hanging labels on other forum members.

Originally Posted by -Ice
Especially as the OP doesn't like pissing contests in his threads! smile Cheers Cy!


I suppose I did label you a mole. But that was offered tongue-in-cheek. Sort of. smile Sorry OP



#4426407 - 06/16/18 04:28 PM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: Winfield]  
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Originally Posted by Winfield
Originally Posted by Mokkeri
Originally Posted by Force10
Originally Posted by AggressorBLUE

I know that according to everyone else here I'm supposed to hate it, and I'm a terrible person for daring to think that graphics are important, daring to enjoy a product that doesn't have every single aspect of the real aircraft functional, and daring to enjoy something ED has made. And I know that by giving ED my money I've clearly perpetuated a cycle of evil that is ruining the very fabric of our lives. And of course the only way for ED to be defeated is for good, morally upstanding people to stop giving them money.

I'll probably be banned for saying all that, because it is the sole purpose of every flight sim ever to only be about #thesystems.


Sorry SHQ, it was fun while it lasted!


Nothing really wrong with the statement. Not personally attacking any individuals and not hating on SimHQ itself for allowing harsh criticism to be shared. wink

Many of us are waiting for ED to focus on the Combat portion of their Digital Combat Simulation. Sadly...as you have shown...unfinished "shiny" sells, while an engaging lively battlefield with competent AI and dynamic campaigns do not. There are other sims I can fly if I just want flick switches and admire graphics and flight models.

I want to be a Combat pilot...dammit!



You can get combat as much as you like. There is mission editor and mission generator. That generator will make same kind of boring missions, just like that dynamic campaign on other simulation.


What is intriguing is that 95% of the youtube video's are of landing tutorials on the carrier, the 'stingers' PLAT camera landings and countless reproductions from RL pilots and said RL pilots giving tutorials on correct LSO\pilot vocabulary on landing on a ship. Stuff all related to combat tutorials.

This makes me think that all the gripes regarding the hornet release after all these years and all people can do with it is land on a ship. I'll hold off for another 12 months before I invest 100AUD to the cause. Mind you, the "c" varient that Australia own all have tail hooks yet we don't have carriers. Surely it has more potential than grading on a carrier and catching the 3rd wire.


Who said anybody could land on a carrier deck.

#4426439 - 06/16/18 08:03 PM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: bisher]  
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Originally Posted by bisher
BUSTED Ice! wink

Busted what? Enjoy your little conspiracy theory.

Originally Posted by bisher
I prefer the reader draw their own inferences. If you are having to assume, that says something

I am assuming because your post is not clear who you're referring to. As to the reader drawing their own inferences, I totally welcome that and invite them to peruse my posts over the entire SimHQ forum and not just the DCS forum. Otherwise, it will be like the blind men and the elephant.

Originally Posted by bisher
I suppose I did label you a mole. But that was offered tongue-in-cheek. Sort of. smile Sorry OP

Again, a silly little idea with nothing to back it up.


- Ice
#4426442 - 06/16/18 08:09 PM Re: So Who Has the Hornet? [Re: Faulkner]  
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Originally Posted by Faulkner

Who said anybody could land on a carrier deck.


These guys salute




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