#4425913 - 06/13/18 01:44 PM
Re: So Who Has the Hornet?
[Re: IceecI]
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,462
AggressorBLUE
Check out my
|
Check out my
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,462
Jerz
|
Can you name some planes which drop nose when putting flaps down? I'd be interested. The Piper Cherokee I took flying lessons in, for one. Many low wing pipers exhibit this behavior, actually.
My Rig:i5-3570k @ 4.2 GHZ W/ Corsair Hydro H110 Cooler / Asus Sabertooth Z77 Mobo / GTX 1070/ 16 Gigs DDR3 RAM / A Few SSDs, and a Bunch of HDDs / All held together by: Corsair C70 Case Other Assets Deployed: HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog SN#22621/CH Throttle Quad/MFG Crosswind Pedals SN#0004 TrackIR TIR 5 w/ TrackClip Pro Simpit: Obutto R3VOLUTION
|
|
#4425922 - 06/13/18 02:18 PM
Re: So Who Has the Hornet?
[Re: usafmtl]
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,462
AggressorBLUE
Check out my
|
Check out my
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,462
Jerz
|
Also, speaking to the original purpose of this thread: I have the hornet, and I'm having a good time learning how to fly it (haven't even tried a carrier landing yet!). It's a very lively flight model, and you can see the FBW systems working (eg. in a cross wind landing, the rudders 'twitch' a lot to make minor corrections). Also, the the visuals are very much a feature of this sim. The photo-realistic nature of the hornet model and the Persian gulf terrain means there are times I glance back over my shoulder and for a moment things feel very real. I play sims to fly airplanes and all that that entails, not just a Ti-83 graphing calculator. The systems certainly add immersion, but DCS has crossed into a new realm with it's visuals, and you can appreciate those without even having to crack open the manual I think my money was well spent. I do wish more things were completed of course, and that DCS had a dynamic campaign engine, and there was a more comprehensive road map for feature completion. But, all in all, I'd rather have this hornet in DCS than no hornet in DCS at all. I know that according to everyone else here I'm supposed to hate it, and I'm a terrible person for daring to think that graphics are important, daring to enjoy a product that doesn't have every single aspect of the real aircraft functional, and daring to enjoy something ED has made. And I know that by giving ED my money I've clearly perpetuated a cycle of evil that is ruining the very fabric of our lives. And of course the only way for ED to be defeated is for good, morally upstanding people to stop giving them money. I'll probably be banned for saying all that, because it is the sole purpose of every flight sim ever to only be about #thesystems. Sorry SHQ, it was fun while it lasted!
My Rig:i5-3570k @ 4.2 GHZ W/ Corsair Hydro H110 Cooler / Asus Sabertooth Z77 Mobo / GTX 1070/ 16 Gigs DDR3 RAM / A Few SSDs, and a Bunch of HDDs / All held together by: Corsair C70 Case Other Assets Deployed: HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog SN#22621/CH Throttle Quad/MFG Crosswind Pedals SN#0004 TrackIR TIR 5 w/ TrackClip Pro Simpit: Obutto R3VOLUTION
|
|
#4425952 - 06/13/18 04:08 PM
Re: So Who Has the Hornet?
[Re: AggressorBLUE]
|
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 192
usafmtl
Space Cadet Zircon
|
Space Cadet Zircon
Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 192
OH
|
Also, speaking to the original purpose of this thread: I have the hornet, and I'm having a good time learning how to fly it (haven't even tried a carrier landing yet!). It's a very lively flight model, and you can see the FBW systems working (eg. in a cross wind landing, the rudders 'twitch' a lot to make minor corrections). Also, the the visuals are very much a feature of this sim. The photo-realistic nature of the hornet model and the Persian gulf terrain means there are times I glance back over my shoulder and for a moment things feel very real. I play sims to fly airplanes and all that that entails, not just a Ti-83 graphing calculator. The systems certainly add immersion, but DCS has crossed into a new realm with it's visuals, and you can appreciate those without even having to crack open the manual I think my money was well spent. I do wish more things were completed of course, and that DCS had a dynamic campaign engine, and there was a more comprehensive road map for feature completion. But, all in all, I'd rather have this hornet in DCS than no hornet in DCS at all. I know that according to everyone else here I'm supposed to hate it, and I'm a terrible person for daring to think that graphics are important, daring to enjoy a product that doesn't have every single aspect of the real aircraft functional, and daring to enjoy something ED has made. And I know that by giving ED my money I've clearly perpetuated a cycle of evil that is ruining the very fabric of our lives. And of course the only way for ED to be defeated is for good, morally upstanding people to stop giving them money. I'll probably be banned for saying all that, because it is the sole purpose of every flight sim ever to only be about #thesystems. Sorry SHQ, it was fun while it lasted! Very good post AggressorBLUE.
Digital Storm Lumos Processor: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1900X (8-Core) (Boost Up to 4.0 GHz) System Memory: 32GB DDR4 3000MHz G.SKILL TridentZ (RGB Light Bar) Storage Set 1: 1x SSD M.2 (250GB Samsung 970 EVO) (NVM Express) Storage Set 2: 1x SSD M.2 (1TB Samsung 970 EVO) (NVM Express) Storage Set 3: 1x SSD (500GB Samsung 860 EVO) Storage Set 4: 1x SSD (500GB Samsung 860 EVO) Graphics Card(s): 1x GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11GB Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 2: Digital Storm Vortex 240mm Liquid CPU Cooler
|
|
#4425954 - 06/13/18 04:46 PM
Re: So Who Has the Hornet?
[Re: AggressorBLUE]
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,183
Force10
I'm just a
|
I'm just a
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,183
CA
|
I know that according to everyone else here I'm supposed to hate it, and I'm a terrible person for daring to think that graphics are important, daring to enjoy a product that doesn't have every single aspect of the real aircraft functional, and daring to enjoy something ED has made. And I know that by giving ED my money I've clearly perpetuated a cycle of evil that is ruining the very fabric of our lives. And of course the only way for ED to be defeated is for good, morally upstanding people to stop giving them money.
I'll probably be banned for saying all that, because it is the sole purpose of every flight sim ever to only be about #thesystems.
Sorry SHQ, it was fun while it lasted!
Nothing really wrong with the statement. Not personally attacking any individuals and not hating on SimHQ itself for allowing harsh criticism to be shared. Many of us are waiting for ED to focus on the Combat portion of their Digital Combat Simulation. Sadly...as you have shown...unfinished "shiny" sells, while an engaging lively battlefield with competent AI and dynamic campaigns do not. There are other sims I can fly if I just want flick switches and admire graphics and flight models. I want to be a Combat pilot...dammit!
Asus Z87 Sabertooth motherboard Windows 7 64 bit Home edition Intel I5 4670K @ 4.4 ghz 16 gig 1866mhz Corsair Vengence Pro memory EVGA GTX 970 Superclocked 4gb Video Card Intel 510 series 120gb SSD (boot drive) Samsung 840 1TB SSD Onboard Realtek sound ______________________________________________________
Oddball from Kelly's Heroes: "If we're late, it's cause we're dead"
|
|
#4425962 - 06/13/18 05:33 PM
Re: So Who Has the Hornet?
[Re: Force10]
|
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 192
usafmtl
Space Cadet Zircon
|
Space Cadet Zircon
Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 192
OH
|
I know that according to everyone else here I'm supposed to hate it, and I'm a terrible person for daring to think that graphics are important, daring to enjoy a product that doesn't have every single aspect of the real aircraft functional, and daring to enjoy something ED has made. And I know that by giving ED my money I've clearly perpetuated a cycle of evil that is ruining the very fabric of our lives. And of course the only way for ED to be defeated is for good, morally upstanding people to stop giving them money.
I'll probably be banned for saying all that, because it is the sole purpose of every flight sim ever to only be about #thesystems.
Sorry SHQ, it was fun while it lasted!
Nothing really wrong with the statement. Not personally attacking any individuals and not hating on SimHQ itself for allowing harsh criticism to be shared. Many of us are waiting for ED to focus on the Combat portion of their Digital Combat Simulation. Sadly...as you have shown...unfinished "shiny" sells, while an engaging lively battlefield with competent AI and dynamic campaigns do not. There are other sims I can fly if I just want flick switches and admire graphics and flight models. I want to be a Combat pilot...dammit! I 2nd that!!!!
Digital Storm Lumos Processor: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1900X (8-Core) (Boost Up to 4.0 GHz) System Memory: 32GB DDR4 3000MHz G.SKILL TridentZ (RGB Light Bar) Storage Set 1: 1x SSD M.2 (250GB Samsung 970 EVO) (NVM Express) Storage Set 2: 1x SSD M.2 (1TB Samsung 970 EVO) (NVM Express) Storage Set 3: 1x SSD (500GB Samsung 860 EVO) Storage Set 4: 1x SSD (500GB Samsung 860 EVO) Graphics Card(s): 1x GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11GB Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 2: Digital Storm Vortex 240mm Liquid CPU Cooler
|
|
#4425969 - 06/13/18 05:45 PM
Re: So Who Has the Hornet?
[Re: Force10]
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,462
AggressorBLUE
Check out my
|
Check out my
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,462
Jerz
|
I know that according to everyone else here I'm supposed to hate it, and I'm a terrible person for daring to think that graphics are important, daring to enjoy a product that doesn't have every single aspect of the real aircraft functional, and daring to enjoy something ED has made. And I know that by giving ED my money I've clearly perpetuated a cycle of evil that is ruining the very fabric of our lives. And of course the only way for ED to be defeated is for good, morally upstanding people to stop giving them money.
I'll probably be banned for saying all that, because it is the sole purpose of every flight sim ever to only be about #thesystems.
Sorry SHQ, it was fun while it lasted!
Nothing really wrong with the statement. Not personally attacking any individuals and not hating on SimHQ itself for allowing harsh criticism to be shared. Many of us are waiting for ED to focus on the Combat portion of their Digital Combat Simulation. Sadly...as you have shown...unfinished "shiny" sells, while an engaging lively battlefield with competent AI and dynamic campaigns do not. There are other sims I can fly if I just want flick switches and admire graphics and flight models. I want to be a Combat pilot...dammit! I get that. And I share those frustrations. But, I also look at it this way: if you were given the keys to an F/A-18C in real life, would you say "no", because you couldn't blow stuff up? I wouldn't. And that's what this module feels like to me. It feels like I went to a used fighter jet dealer on the edge of town, and paid cash for a high-mileage, 3rd owner, beater F/A-18C. This thing is grimy. It's scuffed up. It's lived in. It's sold as-is.. It's mine. The only sim based aircraft that really give me that feeling have been the offerings from A2A for FSX. Plus, I do like tinkering with the Mission editor. Its sort of like playing with toy soldiers as a kid. I get to imagine any battlefield I want, and then go wade into the middle of it with my Hornet. So I get value out of that. I'm weird like that though. Still do want a dynamic campaign though.
My Rig:i5-3570k @ 4.2 GHZ W/ Corsair Hydro H110 Cooler / Asus Sabertooth Z77 Mobo / GTX 1070/ 16 Gigs DDR3 RAM / A Few SSDs, and a Bunch of HDDs / All held together by: Corsair C70 Case Other Assets Deployed: HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog SN#22621/CH Throttle Quad/MFG Crosswind Pedals SN#0004 TrackIR TIR 5 w/ TrackClip Pro Simpit: Obutto R3VOLUTION
|
|
#4425983 - 06/13/18 06:41 PM
Re: So Who Has the Hornet?
[Re: Faulkner]
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
|
And as opinions are judgements based on our individual value system, opinions are always right An opinion you arrive at after considering erroneous or false information is "right"? No, you were duped into making that opinion, you were misled into thinking the product aligned with your individual value system, how does that = "right"? I agree opinions can change if perception changes, however this is best done in a strength based approach. I can't really say your posts are strength based. So if you truly, truly want to impact us poor sods' opinions try using a strength based approach as this has been proven to have the biggest impact on allowing people to make long term positive lifestyle change. You'll have to link me to an explanation of what you're talking about there. I googled the term(s) and had quite a few different results so might be best to give me a link so that we're on the same page Having said that, I don't really believe in serving the truth in a red velvet pillow so that it's more palatable for others. Like I said, the truth doesn't care about your feelings, generally speaking, and you can deny or ignore them as you wish 1. They don't have to respect my wishes as its only a request. Apologies for that, I must've misread something somewhere I still wonder where you think in this thread there is a giant cess pool? We go off topic every now and again, but such is the nature for almost everything in SimHQ, not just here on the DCS sub forum. I do think there are a few instances of ad hominems or pissing constests as you call it, but overall, I think it's a good thread 2. Azazel was just like you said one hit wonder. I just shake my head at those people. Notice he hasn't posted since? I felt like you were calling me out when you said "but just don't jump on someone for their opinion being opposite of yours" so I was wondering why you weren't calling him out despite a more direct attack at a forum member? 3. Heating discussions are one thing. Pissing contest usually = attacking each other. True. I do like the discussions going on but people seem to think presenting an opposing view automatically makes it a pissing contest and not a discussion simply because they are not comfortable with how the discussion is turning out.4. Different opinions are fine, as I said, attacking the person for their opinion is not. Challenging the opinion is fine. I think in this sub forum, I'm the most personally-attacked person Now can we go back to talking about the F/A-18? Do you have the module Ice? No, I do not, but it was a very, very, very hard struggle for me not to order it if I'm honest. I do envy those that have bought it and are enjoying what limited features it has, but I don't want to buy it, have a bad experience, and ruin the rest of the module for myself. I'll wait for a more feature-complete version which although I **hope** won't take long, ED's track record does not inspire much confidence in that hope. I am lucky this was the Hornet. If it was the Tomcat, I'd have been all in!! ED track record be damned!! I don't know what to make of Ice, he seems upset, or makes comments that are inexplicable or contradictory because he has to win the argument or he has to be the SME on everything, despite their being no argument, attacks people despite posts that echo basically the same opinion, effectively supporting him or the same view. I don't want to say these things, but I don't know what the f### is happening. There may be more than one person in there, or he may now actually be a fanboy. I think he secretly has a thing for ED despite his posts, can't come to grips with it, or he may be confused. I know he wants to take over the forum or whatever thread he gets involved in, to root it out wherever it may be, although at times the posts don't make sense and come out of both sides of his mouth, and I can't understand what he's talking about. What is SME? I do apologize for mis-reading the tone of your posts Written media being hard to work out the tone and all. You are, however, correct. I am, or rather, WAS, a fan of ED. I had LOMAC and FC2 and got more involved with the sim in FC2 flying the A-10A and bought the A-10C on Beta and thoroughly enjoyed it. I have BS2 and FC3 as well. I am a fan of ED who has been disappointed with the direction and management of the sim for years. Maybe that's why you think I'm contradictory? There are some aspects of the sim I will not dispute -- eye candy, viability as a training platform for newbie sim pilots, the value of DCS A-10C and DCS BS2 -- ED has those things right or mostly right It's when ED fumbles with the rest of the project that disappoints me. I have opted to take the negative side of the argument, to play devil's advocate of sorts. When the community can easily counter my concerns with truth and facts, when ED realizes its mistakes and starts learning from them and correcting them, when I can easily be PROVEN WRONG, I will be a very happy simmer. As always, the ball is in ED's court. Ice is a good guy. Look at what he has done for BMS. ED/DCS has very questionable business model of pushing products out and never really finishing them. I know Ice is a good guy, otherwise I wouldn't talk to him. And very knowledgeable, and quite entertaining, but he's correct only 95% of the time, and that's a damn good score in my book. Thanks guys! I appreciate being assessed not just by my DCS presence but by my activity as a flight simmer and community member. A long, long time ago, I wrote this newbie guide as I was taking up new Warthog pilots and some of them were so new they didn't know what "OSB" was. I've trained up a few Hog pilots and later on, some Viper pilots too, so yes, I am a fan of COMBAT flight simulation and I am eager to share it with others 95% is way more than I was expecting so I wonder why you say "only"? Anyway, thanks for that generous assessment but as I mentioned earlier, when ED starts proving me wrong, I would be a very happy 15% correct simmer
- Ice
|
|
#4425989 - 06/13/18 07:23 PM
Re: So Who Has the Hornet?
[Re: AggressorBLUE]
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
|
I do wish more things were completed of course, and that DCS had a dynamic campaign engine, and there was a more comprehensive road map for feature completion. But, all in all, I'd rather have this hornet in DCS than no hornet in DCS at all.
I know that according to everyone else here I'm supposed to hate it, and I'm a terrible person for daring to think that graphics are important, daring to enjoy a product that doesn't have every single aspect of the real aircraft functional, and daring to enjoy something ED has made. And I know that by giving ED my money I've clearly perpetuated a cycle of evil that is ruining the very fabric of our lives. And of course the only way for ED to be defeated is for good, morally upstanding people to stop giving them money.
I'll probably be banned for saying all that, because it is the sole purpose of every flight sim ever to only be about #thesystems. I'm sure you know SimHQ well enough to know you won't be banned for saying those things End of the day, it's your money and you can spend it as you please. You have been open about your expectations and about the shortcomings of the sim and have given a fair assessment of it. I have said it before -- if ED were able to commit to a 1-2 year development timeline for the Hornet and if ED had a better track record of hitting its deadlines without Wags having to resort to promises, I'd be right alongside you guys enjoying the Hornet **NOW**. Alas!! However, the general positive feedback on the module is giving me hope. ED seems to have mostly nailed this initial release so if they can make regular, steady progress on the module, refrain from breaking non-broken stuff (2 steps forward, 3 steps back), don't get distracted by other modules or private contracts, and introduce the new systems in a timely manner, then I look forward to buying the Hornet module soon. But, I also look at it this way: if you were given the keys to an F/A-18C in real life, would you say "no", because you couldn't blow stuff up? I wouldn't. As I said, I think the issue here isn't the module or the Hornet itself but rather ED as a developer and its track record. Look at it this way: if the Hornet module was sold by another dev with a better track record, even if it was sold with the same number of features, it'll probably get more sales.
- Ice
|
|
#4426031 - 06/13/18 11:30 PM
Re: So Who Has the Hornet?
[Re: AggressorBLUE]
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1
daveyb
Junior Member
|
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1
|
Can you name some planes which drop nose when putting flaps down? I'd be interested. The Piper Cherokee I took flying lessons in, for one. Many low wing pipers exhibit this behavior, actually. I'm just your run-of-the-mill private pilot, but I've gotten a kick out of the commentary on the flight model regarding pitch / flaps on the dcs forums, as well as here... It seems many that I assume have never flown an aircraft have a strong feel for how they should fly. My experience in literally all of the three types I've flown has been that dropping flaps results in considerable pitch down (dropping flaps increases the camber at the rear of the wing significantly). Don't take my word for it... https://www.faasafety.gov/files/gslac/courses/content/35/376/Use%20of%20Flaps.pdf
|
|
#4426074 - 06/14/18 06:01 AM
Re: So Who Has the Hornet?
[Re: daveyb]
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,614
theOden
Member
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,614
|
It seems many that I assume have never flown an aircraft have a strong feel for how they should fly. That's a very good theory, it goes well along this other theory where one assumes that the devs have flown light Cessna och such types but never a F/A-18 Hornet.
|
|
#4426075 - 06/14/18 06:17 AM
Re: So Who Has the Hornet?
[Re: Force10]
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 46
Mokkeri
Junior Member
|
Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 46
|
I know that according to everyone else here I'm supposed to hate it, and I'm a terrible person for daring to think that graphics are important, daring to enjoy a product that doesn't have every single aspect of the real aircraft functional, and daring to enjoy something ED has made. And I know that by giving ED my money I've clearly perpetuated a cycle of evil that is ruining the very fabric of our lives. And of course the only way for ED to be defeated is for good, morally upstanding people to stop giving them money.
I'll probably be banned for saying all that, because it is the sole purpose of every flight sim ever to only be about #thesystems.
Sorry SHQ, it was fun while it lasted!
Nothing really wrong with the statement. Not personally attacking any individuals and not hating on SimHQ itself for allowing harsh criticism to be shared. Many of us are waiting for ED to focus on the Combat portion of their Digital Combat Simulation. Sadly...as you have shown...unfinished "shiny" sells, while an engaging lively battlefield with competent AI and dynamic campaigns do not. There are other sims I can fly if I just want flick switches and admire graphics and flight models. I want to be a Combat pilot...dammit! You can get combat as much as you like. There is mission editor and mission generator. That generator will make same kind of boring missions, just like that dynamic campaign on other simulation.
|
|
#4426076 - 06/14/18 06:46 AM
Re: So Who Has the Hornet?
[Re: Frederf]
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 623
Sobek
Professional scapegoat
|
Professional scapegoat
Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 623
|
In conventional airplanes flap extension has a significant negative pitch moment component and usually a net moment in the same direction. F/A-18 isn't a conventional design. That really wasn't the question, though. Also as per the latest patch notes, the pitch down upon extending flaps has been resolved.
|
|
#4426078 - 06/14/18 07:03 AM
Re: So Who Has the Hornet?
[Re: Mokkeri]
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
|
You can get combat as much as you like. There is mission editor and mission generator. That generator will make same kind of boring missions, just like that dynamic campaign on other simulation. Oh, the DC makes the same kind of boring missions as the mission generator? Do tell!!
- Ice
|
|
#4426090 - 06/14/18 09:01 AM
Re: So Who Has the Hornet?
[Re: usafmtl]
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
|
"It is the best but it's not good"??? I do agree, the DC and AI can be quirky sometimes but I chalk that up to the (imaginary) enemy being unpredictable That, and I blame 90's tech! Still can't see how you're comparing it to the DCS mission generator though. Yes, you can make a very complex mission in DCS that will seem like it was from a DC but 1) that will take a lot of work and most likely a lot of testing, 2) it will have limited replayability, and 3) it will be even more work tying in one mission to the next. The DCS mission generator and mission editor are for people who enjoy making and testing missions. The BMS DC is for people who want to pretend to be combat pilots
- Ice
|
|
|
CD WOFF
by Britisheh. 03/28/24 08:05 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|