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#4424281 - 06/03/18 04:52 AM Two Rock Climbers Fall To Their Deaths Off the Granite Formation Known As El Capitan in Yosemite National Park  
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Haggart Offline
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"The park service identified the climbers late Saturday as Jason Wells, 46, of Boulder, Colorado, and Tim Klien, 42, of Palmdale, California. More than 100 climbing accidents occur in Yosemite every year, and 51 climbers died from traumatic injuries in the park from 1970 through 1990"

[Linked Image]
Have you got a flare for the extreme? Are you already an avid rock climber, and you’re looking for something more? Well, then we’ve got the ultimate challenge for you, and it’s called El Capitan. You’ve probably heard of it before, and that’s for good reason. It’s universally considered to be the most difficult rock-climbing challenge in the entire world!

I realize that life is inherently unsafe and isn't meant to be lived not taking any chances at all but i guess I'll never understand why people go out and risk everything on the more risky climbs that could result in their last climb. They keep pushing the envelope of safety perhaps because the risk becomes addicting - idk. Is this what life's about - doing what makes you happy and falling to your death at age 42/46 ?

"Tim Klein, one of the two climbers who died in a climbing accident in Yosemite Falls on Saturday, was a beloved and highly respected teacher from Palmdale, California. In fact, Klein was a named "Teacher of the Year" for the Antelope Valley Union High School District only a week prior to his fatal fall"

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4424282 - 06/03/18 05:19 AM Re: Two Rock Climbers Fall To Their Deaths Off the Granite Formation Known As El Capitan in Yosemite National Park [Re: Haggart]  
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wheelsup_cavu Offline
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I will never understand their logic but I won't deny them their opportunity to kill themselves.


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#4424284 - 06/03/18 05:57 AM Re: Two Rock Climbers Fall To Their Deaths Off the Granite Formation Known As El Capitan in Yosemite National Park [Re: Haggart]  
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Haggart Offline
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Me neither wheelsup. If you like hiking and climbing then there's plenty of mountains with trails either part of the way up or all the way to the top (depending on height of the mountain) that can be walked up without or with some rope but not enough danger involved to likely get anyone killed. A hiker could enjoy the great and scenic outdoors hiking with their family & grandkids in rocky places until they're in their 80's or whatever instead of going out in a quick 15 sec fall to their deaths 30 years or more too early. I cannot find any logic in that.


"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
#4424333 - 06/03/18 03:53 PM Re: Two Rock Climbers Fall To Their Deaths Off the Granite Formation Known As El Capitan in Yosemite National Park [Re: Haggart]  
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MarkG Offline
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Originally Posted by Haggart
I realize that life is inherently unsafe and isn't meant to be lived not taking any chances at all but i guess I'll never understand why people go out and risk everything on the more risky climbs that could result in their last climb. They keep pushing the envelope of safety perhaps because the risk becomes addicting - idk. Is this what life's about - doing what makes you happy and falling to your death at age 42/46 ?


I don't know their backgrounds, but their ages make me think they could have been chasing midlife adrenaline. I know the feeling all to well, you know you're on top of the hill (pardon the pun) or slightly over it, but still young and virile enough to enjoy life the way you want to (maybe as you did as a younger man), especially if you've lost lots of weight and become fitter, resurrected a dead love life, etc. There was a time in my early 40's I had a strong desire to parachute, if just to have done it once in my life (as someone else my age had done).

While I don't care for heights, flying and even the thought of floating down on a chute doesn't scare me so much (I say that now smile ). But I do have almost a phobia with hanging by a cable, and not just cable cars (like in 007: The Spy Who Loved Me), also with elevators. I hate them, have nightmares about them, avoid them whenever I can. While riding to the Top of The Rock and Empire State Building (twice), I could feel my heart racing (wife was squeezing my hand, she knows smile ), and I couldn't wait to exit. But I have to admit, I kinda liked feeling the adrenaline rush, the speed (for an elevator) was surprising, quickly reaching heights which pop your ears.

These guys were getting their fix in a dangerous way, and I can't imagine what it feels like to reach the top, the sense of accomplishment (and the scenery). But were they experienced climbers or midlife adrenaline junkies? I get my midlife kicks in much safer ways. smile



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4424337 - 06/03/18 04:14 PM Re: Two Rock Climbers Fall To Their Deaths Off the Granite Formation Known As El Capitan in Yosemite National Park [Re: Haggart]  
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I've never been a real risk taker. I became a private pilot, but never considered that dangerous, really. I flew safely and anything airbatic was done thousands of feet up with plenty of room to recover. Never thought that I was risking my life.
Dying for something as stupid as this never made sense to me. Especially if you have a family depending on you. The only thing that would make me risk my life would be saving my wife and kids. I need a good reason to die.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
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#4424351 - 06/03/18 05:18 PM Re: Two Rock Climbers Fall To Their Deaths Off the Granite Formation Known As El Capitan in Yosemite National Park [Re: Haggart]  
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DaBBQ Offline
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As a veteran rock scaler, "If you had to ask why, we cannot explain it to you in words."

#4424362 - 06/03/18 06:19 PM Re: Two Rock Climbers Fall To Their Deaths Off the Granite Formation Known As El Capitan in Yosemite National Park [Re: Haggart]  
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“Because it’s there.” If not for that urge, we’d still be chasing antelope in east Africa.


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#4424387 - 06/03/18 09:11 PM Re: Two Rock Climbers Fall To Their Deaths Off the Granite Formation Known As El Capitan in Yosemite National Park [Re: Haggart]  
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jenrick Offline
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Climbing when done correctly is a pretty dang safe sport. So without any background knowledge on these two, 1 of 2 things is the culprit. They tackled a challenge they didn't have the technical knowledge to handle, plenty of people have made that mistake in a lot of fields and paid the price for it (diving for instance). The other is they did the right things, and a chain of cascading failures led to their death (also seen in diving). While the odds are well in your favor when doing things correctly, occasionally it all lines up and bad things happen. There's also the middle ground where they knew enough to do it about 90% right and through bad luck that wasn't quite good enough.

Climbing safely on an open face like that can be fairly (to very) technical, in terms of placing protection etc. However it is a very well worn route, so it's not like it's an unknown or tricky problem. I've never even looked at El Capitan, but it may be bolted, making it much safer/easier in that regard if done correctly.

-Jenrick

#4424487 - 06/04/18 01:25 PM Re: Two Rock Climbers Fall To Their Deaths Off the Granite Formation Known As El Capitan in Yosemite National Park [Re: Haggart]  
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Dart Offline
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Mark, you ain't alone in hating elevators. And you ain't wrong. smile

Sh*t happens sometimes. They could have just as easily been killed on the road driving back from a successful climb.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

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#4424497 - 06/04/18 02:38 PM Re: Two Rock Climbers Fall To Their Deaths Off the Granite Formation Known As El Capitan in Yosemite National Park [Re: Haggart]  
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Haggart Offline
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They were described as "master climbers" but it happens to them too .... on mountains, "#%&*$# happens" and it's more then just "sometimes" as there are a lot of climbers throughout the world and someone is climbing a high mountain 360 days a year and i doubt a month goes by without a fatality. Maybe fewer fatalities than base-jumping ...not sure on that one.

....."They could have just as easily been killed on the road driving back from a successful climb"

I hear that all the time and it never makes any sense as adding a risky sport to the risk of driving is the same as 1 risk + 1 risk = 2 risk


"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
#4424500 - 06/04/18 02:44 PM Re: Two Rock Climbers Fall To Their Deaths Off the Granite Formation Known As El Capitan in Yosemite National Park [Re: Haggart]  
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Any reasonable person will recognize that just living life on a daily basis involves some risks. The key here is whether or not it is wise to take on any unnecessary risks.

In my case, I HAVE to use a car to travel from place to place and I can always be killed in an accident. That is a risk that is balanced out by the fact that I have to make a living.

On the other hand, I won't be mountain climbing or flying around in a wingsuit anytime soon. smile

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 06/04/18 02:45 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4424502 - 06/04/18 02:45 PM Re: Two Rock Climbers Fall To Their Deaths Off the Granite Formation Known As El Capitan in Yosemite National Park [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Haggart Offline
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Any reasonable person will recognize that just living life on a daily basis involves some risks. The key here is whether or not it is wise to take on any unnecessary risks.


+1


"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
#4424757 - 06/05/18 09:23 PM Re: Two Rock Climbers Fall To Their Deaths Off the Granite Formation Known As El Capitan in Yosemite National Park [Re: Haggart]  
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Haggart Offline
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Monday, June 4, 2018 ..... this time a hiker has died after falling while climbing up cables to Half-Dome at Yosemite [Linked Image]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/22/us/yosemite-national-park-half-dome-cables-death/


"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
#4424787 - 06/05/18 11:46 PM Re: Two Rock Climbers Fall To Their Deaths Off the Granite Formation Known As El Capitan in Yosemite National Park [Re: Dart]  
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Originally Posted by Dart
Mark, you ain't alone in hating elevators. And you ain't wrong. smile

Sh*t happens sometimes. They could have just as easily been killed on the road driving back from a successful climb.


Or fall getting out of bed.


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#4424791 - 06/06/18 12:03 AM Re: Two Rock Climbers Fall To Their Deaths Off the Granite Formation Known As El Capitan in Yosemite National Park [Re: Haggart]  
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Mad Max Offline
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The local Aboriginal tribe have succeeded in banning people from climbing Ayers Rock in Central Australia. It was a bit scary climbing it, very similar to the image of the half dome above, but you didn't have continuous cables. If you missed your footing you basically couldn't stop yourself from falling and killing yourself. I climbed it in 1987 with my (then) 12 year old son. He must have climbed up and down three times whilst I was slowly wending my way up.


"You'll never take me alive" said he,
And his ghost may be heard if you pass by that billabong
"Who'll come a Waltzing Matilda with me?"



#4424793 - 06/06/18 12:16 AM Re: Two Rock Climbers Fall To Their Deaths Off the Granite Formation Known As El Capitan in Yosemite National Park [Re: Haggart]  
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Doesn't Ayers Rock have religious significance for the Aboriginals?


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#4425275 - 06/09/18 02:07 AM Re: Two Rock Climbers Fall To Their Deaths Off the Granite Formation Known As El Capitan in Yosemite National Park [Re: Haggart]  
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HitchHikingFlatlander Offline
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Climbing and hiking can be dangerous, always sad to see someone die doing something they love. I've always wanted to hike Half Dome but now with the permit process, which I feel is more geared towards tourists, its really tough to get there.


I've got a bad feeling about this.....
#4425279 - 06/09/18 02:17 AM Re: Two Rock Climbers Fall To Their Deaths Off the Granite Formation Known As El Capitan in Yosemite National Park [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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Mad Max Offline
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Originally Posted by KraziKanuK
Doesn't Ayers Rock have religious significance for the Aboriginals?


Everything does, that's half the problem.


"You'll never take me alive" said he,
And his ghost may be heard if you pass by that billabong
"Who'll come a Waltzing Matilda with me?"




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