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#4424011 - 06/01/18 06:05 PM Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers?  
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- Ice Offline
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Today's newsletter

Quote
The Hornet brings the first, true, multi-role fighter to the skies of DCS World with equally impressive air-to-surface and air-to-air capabilities.

Um, no, not really. The A-10C's A-G capabilities are impressive. Shooting rockets and dropping dumb bombs from a pointy-nose is not impressive when a snub-nosed A-10C has stuff like LGBs and Mavericks. The F-15C has the AIM-120 while the Hornet only has the AIM-7.


Quote
DCS: F/A-18C Hornet is initially being released as Early Access, with several features to be added during the Early Access period. This includes several sensors, weapons, and sub-systems.

Which sensors, weapons, and sub-systems? Not even a link to their previous announcements with this info.


Quote
the Hornet is armed with a large assortment of unguided bombs and rockets, laser and GPS-guided bombs, air-to-surface missiles of all sorts, and both radar and infrared-guided air-to-air missiles. This results in amazing gameplay potential.

Most of that potential is just that... potential. It won't really be realized until maybe a year or more from now.


Quote
Catapult from the "boat", strike a large assortment of targets that only DCS World can offer, then "call the ball" and land back on the carrier.

No carrier ATC yet, so you'll just have to "call the ball" by yourself.


Quote
Detailed simulation of the Hornet’s many sub-systems like engines, fuel, electrical, hydraulic, radios, lighting, emergency, and many, many more.

I get it. Focus on what you have. But when what you do NOT have is more than what you DO have, I find it misleading to say "many, many more," especially when it does not detail what is not included in early access.


Quote
Dozens of air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons and sensors. From simple rockets to high-tech GPS and laser-guided bombs, experience what only Hornet pilots have experienced ‘til now.

Blatant lie. Do you really have access to GPS-guided and laser-guided ordnance at this point? Even if you do, how are you going to use it without TGP or A-G radar?



ED is trying to sell a module that does not exist and most likely will not exist for another year or two. Why lie? Why mislead potential customers? Do they really want to create hype then disappointment in a new flight simmer? That's how you LOSE customers, not how you get them! Imagine if you bought the Hornet believing this newsletter and got disappointed, how do you think you'll react to when the FC4 module comes out?


- Ice
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4424027 - 06/01/18 06:59 PM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: - Ice]  
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Funny you should raise this.......I read the newsletter via email today and thought exactly the same. Their promotion media really is pushing the boundaries of blatant lying.


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#4424040 - 06/01/18 07:54 PM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: - Ice]  
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I dont get what is problem. ED have also wrote this.

"There have been a lot of questions regarding what sensors and weapons will be available at the launch of the early access DCS: F/A-18C Hornet. This decision is based on balancing a great, first experience, while getting quickly into the hands of those prefer early access adoption. We realize that early access is not for everyone, but for many, it is. If you prefer a completed product, we ask that you wait for the final release. Take that time to monitor previews and early access reports to make an informed purchase."

#4424041 - 06/01/18 07:58 PM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: - Ice]  
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popcorn

Haven't bought the Hornet yet. Will wait until things shape up and A/G radar is in and 2.5.xx stabilize a bit. If I waited for 6+ years another one, two or three is no big deal as long as I'm still alive by then - LOL

That being said the F/A-18 looks really nice and from what I've seen the carrier launches/traps looks awesome. I'm hoping for the best but until it is - pretty much - complete I will keep my CC in my pocket.


>> It's all about teamwork! <<
#4424044 - 06/01/18 08:12 PM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: - Ice]  
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But the Hornet is excelling at eye candy at least with a future combat potential. WTH does the Christian Eagle have to bring to DCS?


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#4424051 - 06/01/18 08:47 PM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: specialksl]  
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Originally Posted by Mokkeri
I dont get what is problem. ED have also wrote this.

"There have been a lot of questions regarding what sensors and weapons will be available at the launch of the early access DCS: F/A-18C Hornet. This decision is based on balancing a great, first experience, while getting quickly into the hands of those prefer early access adoption. We realize that early access is not for everyone, but for many, it is. If you prefer a completed product, we ask that you wait for the final release. Take that time to monitor previews and early access reports to make an informed purchase."

Where is that on the newsletter or is there a link to that at all anywhere in the newsletter? No? That is **EXACTLY** the problem.


Originally Posted by specialksl
But the Hornet is excelling at eye candy at least with a future combat potential. WTH does the Christian Eagle have to bring to DCS?

Haha! That Christen Eagle came out of nowhere! To answer your question, it's for when you want to practice aerobatic maneuvers in a COMBAT flight simulator. For when you absolutely must do this on a COMBAT flight simulator as the civilian flight simulators simply won't do! biggrin


- Ice
#4424061 - 06/01/18 09:36 PM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: - Ice]  
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I'll treat the CE2 like the Yak, Spitfire, FW, Mi8, FC4, Mig15, etc., not interested won't buy. It's a great thing this free market thing is.

#4424062 - 06/01/18 09:47 PM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: - Ice]  
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The news letter could be a bit more clear

Whether it's the result of ED conspiring to mislead or computer nerds with no PR skills it's hard to say. It would be helpful to understand who's writing these newsletters and the process involved, I do not know who 'The Eagles Dynamic Team' is.

But I don't even care enough to want to understand. smile

Now if I could just figure out how to launch GPS guided bombs on my F 18! No joy yet smile



#4424065 - 06/01/18 10:03 PM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: bisher]  
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Originally Posted by bisher
The news letter could be a bit more clear

Whether it's the result of ED conspiring to mislead or computer nerds with no PR skills it's hard to say. It would be helpful to understand who's writing these newsletters and the process involved, I do not know who 'The Eagles Dynamic Team' is.

Is it really hard to say? What, someone is just writing this stuff and releases it with no review from higher ups?


- Ice
#4424066 - 06/01/18 10:11 PM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice
Originally Posted by bisher
The news letter could be a bit more clear

Whether it's the result of ED conspiring to mislead or computer nerds with no PR skills it's hard to say. It would be helpful to understand who's writing these newsletters and the process involved, I do not know who 'The Eagles Dynamic Team' is.

Is it really hard to say? What, someone is just writing this stuff and releases it with no review from higher ups?


lol Ice, no for me with little understanding of the process it is hard to say. But i'll bet you have proof that it's not hard for me to say

But again Ice I JUST DON"T CARE ENOUGH smile

If you feel so strongly would it not be prudent to avoid ED and their products



#4424072 - 06/01/18 10:43 PM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: bisher]  
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Sorry about that, I fail to see how you don't care enough... but care enough to tell us that you don't care enough smile
Or maybe you just don't care enough because you know you won't like the answers at the end of the road?


Originally Posted by bisher
lol Ice, no for me with little understanding of the process it is hard to say. But i'll bet you have proof that it's not hard for me to say

What does the process of writing of newsletters have to do with the accuracy or truthfulness of the content of the newsletter? Who cares of the process of how the newsletter came about? That is not what I'm pointing at, it is the content of the newsletter. If the newsletter was approved by ED powers-that-be, what does that say about them? If the newsletter was NOT approved by ED powers-that-be, what does that say about them? Take your pick and tell me what you think. Or don't, if you don't care enough. I don't really care about whether or not you care.


Originally Posted by bisher
If you feel so strongly would it not be prudent to avoid ED and their products

AFAIK, I've not bought any ED products in years smile so I'm good there, thanks!


- Ice
#4424227 - 06/02/18 08:35 PM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: - Ice]  
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OMG dude, what is this hard on vendetta you've got?

I have the ER Hornet and so far it's a blast, and I am not easily amused nor impressed.


"Learning to fly the Falcon is just your ticket to the dance" - Pete 'Boomer' Bonanni.
#4424228 - 06/02/18 08:44 PM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: - Ice]  
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I recommend ignore options, he has no valuable post except poison and hate.

#4424252 - 06/02/18 11:05 PM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: XIII]  
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Nothing to add to the discussion and no way to counter the points being put forward? I know!! Let's attack the poster!! duh


- Ice
#4424278 - 06/03/18 03:42 AM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: - Ice]  
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It's hardly a surprise is it!

ED have been selling unrealized promises for nigh on a decade now.

They just need to continually replenish the supply of gullible fools after they've burnt all the goodwill from the previous lot.

#4424293 - 06/03/18 08:39 AM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: - Ice]  
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Quote
DCS: F/A-18C Hornet is initially being released as Early Access, with several features to be added during the Early Access period.


Originally Posted by - Ice
Which sensors, weapons, and sub-systems? Not even a link to their previous announcements with this info.


Its a newsletter, not a bug tracker.

Originally Posted by - Ice

Quote
Dozens of air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons and sensors. From simple rockets to high-tech GPS and laser-guided bombs, experience what only Hornet pilots have experienced ‘til now.

Blatant lie. Do you really have access to GPS-guided and laser-guided ordnance at this point?


It will have them at release of the final product, so no.

Originally Posted by - Ice

ED is trying to sell a module that does not exist and most likely will not exist for another year or two.


It is Early Access which was mentioned at the top of the newsletter. Of course the final product doesn't exist yet. Of course they're going to advertise what their product will have once finished, like every other company in existence.

Originally Posted by - Ice

Imagine if you bought the Hornet believing this newsletter and got disappointed, how do you think you'll react to when the FC4 module comes out?


If you read the damn newsletter you'd read "Early Access". In particular:

Quote

...with several features to be added during the Early Access period. This includes several sensors, weapons, and sub-systems.


If someone is dumb enough to be expecting a perfect, fully featured product after reading that newsletter then point them to me. I have some snake oil to sell. biggrin

#4424313 - 06/03/18 01:38 PM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: Jetronic]  
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Originally Posted by Jetronic
They just need to continually replenish the supply of gullible fools.


So we have a company who is purposely misleading it's costumers AND their strategy is to sell products to gullible fools. Really? How is this supposed to be taken seriously

I have not seen enough evidence to support any of this



#4424355 - 06/03/18 05:28 PM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice
Nothing to add to the discussion and no way to counter the points being put forward? I know!! Let's attack the poster!! duh


Ice. Attacking the poster is the modus operandi in this forum

I recall in one thread in this forum I had members question my ability to cope, made reference to my emotional state, etc. The disconnect to the topic was head scratching. And all the while you making reference and sharing your level of hilarity

Links would be too easy



#4424400 - 06/03/18 09:58 PM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: bisher]  
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Originally Posted by Flogger23m
Its a newsletter, not a bug tracker.

I never said it should be a bug tracker. What I'm saying is that it's peddling lies or at the very least, being vague on purpose.


Originally Posted by Flogger23m
It will have them at release of the final product, so no.

So why say From simple rockets to high-tech GPS and laser-guided bombs, experience what only Hornet pilots have experienced ‘til now if you can't experience them now?


Originally Posted by Flogger23m
It is Early Access which was mentioned at the top of the newsletter. Of course the final product doesn't exist yet. Of course they're going to advertise what their product will have once finished, like every other company in existence.

"'til now" doesn't sound like "once finished" at all. It doesn't sound like "1-2 years" either. Maybe you have different definition of "now"?


Originally Posted by Flogger23m
If you read the damn newsletter you'd read "Early Access".

If you'd read my post, you'd see the points you've missed.


Originally Posted by Flogger23m
If someone is dumb enough to be expecting a perfect, fully featured product after reading that newsletter then point them to me.

And after reading the newsletter, would you know exactly what you were getting in the Early Access? What features are available? Can you do mud moving? Even if you get LGBs and IAMs, do you have CCRP and a TGP in Early Access?


Originally Posted by bisher
I have not seen enough evidence to support any of this

The newsletter is not evidence?


Originally Posted by bisher
Ice. Attacking the poster is the modus operandi in this forum

For those that cannot counter arguments with evidence of their own, yes. Even if it were the MO, you would join them?


Originally Posted by bisher
I recall in one thread in this forum I had members question my ability to cope, made reference to my emotional state, etc. The disconnect to the topic was head scratching. And all the while you making reference and sharing your level of hilarity

And I've had them question my life priorities and other non-simming, non-DCS stuff as well. It just shows they've nothing else to say so do an ad hominem instead. It still doesn't make it right. You would join those ranks?


Originally Posted by bisher
Links would be too easy

And again, those who claim to be evidence but have none make that exact statement. You'd engage in that practice as well?


- Ice
#4424406 - 06/03/18 10:20 PM Re: Is ED deliberately misleading potential customers? [Re: - Ice]  
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You are arguing with sock puppets. Today I discovered some of the same folks who backed Kinney (and still defend ED) went to Twitter in 2014. Guess which candidate they've been supporting? Let the Russians do their thing. Mueller is doing his.

Last edited by SinCityJet; 06/04/18 12:07 AM.
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