Hi Guys, I have a new EECH build ready for testing of the following items. Instructions are in the zip file. I should add, this test version is based on 1.16.0, the AllMods version of the code base. Changes are also uploaded into the code base, so the next release of EECH will have the hover mods incorporated into it.
An air density fix so you aren't flying above 10,000 ft all the time. Hover-Hold "H" / Stable-Hover-Hold "SHFT-H" (Requirements: speed less than 40 knots and LET GO OF THE JOYSTICK to engage it) Use "ALT-J" to lower the Hover Height and "ALT-K" to raise it (10 ft or 5 meters) Altitude-Hold "ALT-H" (no restrictions on engaging it) Basically a Helicopter cruise control, this is for nap-of-the-earth flying, but it switches to barometric altitude above about 300 feet (100 m). It also includes a speed cruise control, between 50 and 110. A new Pop-Up maneuver "SHFT-P" (Toggles, Up 20 meters on the first press, down 20 meters on the second keypress) Realistic Physics Settings for all of the flyable helicopters (these have been adjusted and all are correct now).
A lot more changes have been incorporated as well. The MFD Export fixes are in here, and the Ka-50N Night Shark upgrade with FLIR is in here, and the MFD video contrast upgrade is in here. The joystick Deadband fix is in here too, along with the commserver fix (for you cockpit builders). 7/13/19 The Havoc Engine Gauges have been fixed now too, we are up to cohokum_test16.exe now. 7/20/19 I also added a Heading dampener into the Hover modes, since there is no joystick deadband now. 7/21/19
Be sure to load the "Mi-28 Working Instrument Needles" mod too, this mod depends upon that one.
We're up to build 16 now, as of July 28th 2019. Everything is stable now, no errors, full functionality, it all works like it's supposed to and the physics for all of the flyable helos have been corrected. Some people have had to add EECH to their anti-virus allowed applications list and a few people have had joystick driver problems which required an update. Try these fixes first if you run into problems.
Please leave comments here in the forum and I'll work on fixing any issues or features that you come up with. Javelin
Hover-Hold works much better, but using the H for holver hold and Shift-K for hover stable is confusing, sometimes to engage hover hold K after previously use the Shift-K it does not do anything, I have to press Shift -K again EDIT: Ok now I get it, works great
Can't engage Hover hold past 20
Cutting the collective to zero and going free fall, can't engage Hover hold . EDIT: After more flying, I can but can't stop the decent
I could live with just the Hover Hold on/off , easy to adjust the altitude with the collective
OK, I think see your problem Marc. Hover-Hold "H" is only for keyboard players, it doesn't work if you use a Joystick. You want Stable-Hover-Hold "L-Shft-H" if you are using a Joystick. There is a difference buried somewhere in the code, but I haven't gone looking for it.
"L-Alt-H" is for Altitude-Hold, which uses "L-Alt-J" and "L-Alt-K" to adjust the height setting, just like it says in the manual. I expanded "L-Alt-J" and "L-Alt-K" to ALSO adjust the height for Hover-Hold and Stable-Hover-Hold.
Important: Use L-Alt and L-Shft only, the R-Alt and R-shft don't work.
The speed limit for engaging Hover & Stable-Hover Holds is 40 knots. I don't know how fast that is in Russian units. I'll check it again in the code to see if I missed something there.
Altitude-Hold doesn't have a speed limit, just for clarity.
I checked it again, and everything is working fine just like I thought, except for one little setting. Hover and Stable-Hover can be engaged at up to 40 m/s = 77.8 knots. I mis-read the statement in the code. Ooops. I tested it and I was able to engage Stable-Hover at 75 knots.
You can also go directly from one mode to another, i.e. you can swap modes without turning the first one off. You can go into Stable-Hover, then switch to Altitude Hold, then switch to Hover (it drifts down towards the ground since it doesn't work with a Joystick) then you can press "H" again and turn Hover off.
Just for clarity, Hover-Hold and Stable-Hover-Hold take away the Collective. If the Collective still works, you're NOT using the correct Hover mode.
In Altitude-Hold, you lose the Collective and you lose Pitch Trim. The adjustments to the Pitch of the helo are done in the new code using the Trim setting so that you the Pilot can still over-ride anything the automated controls do with Pitch.
I think you guys will really like Altitude-Hold, it takes a lot of the work out of flying the helos. You can engage it and pay more attention to your fire control systems than trying to keep the helo from hitting the ground or keeping the autopilot from careening into trouble. You can study your gauges now too without worrying about maintaining your altitude so much.
And you can finally use the KA-50 Blackshark the way it was intended. Fly the helo into a good firing position, engage Stable-Hover, then focus your attention on the fire control camera and pick out targets without worrying about hitting anything with the helo. The Blackshark only has one Pilot who has to do everything. It's pretty hard to stay close to the ground and focus on the targetting camera at the same time.
I'm going to alter the code for the Altitude-Hold slightly, I didn't like it pitching the nose up hard on me while flying fast up high to slow me down. We only need that control down next to the ground.
Hi Guys, I just uploaded a new build. Alt-Hold now doesn't do any speed or pitch control if you are over 100 meters in altitude. I was flying high and fast and engaged it... It slammed on the brakes and I didn't like it doing that so I fixed it.
In addition, all of the 2-bladed helos were drastically under powered, so I rechecked and rebalanced the power levels in all of the helos to fix it, based on the hovering power requirements and the power to weight ratios. I kept the relative differences between all of the helicopters so they still all have their own feel and handling differences.
I also improved the tuning of the Alt-Hold control loop, it functions a bit better now.
Use the same download link in the first post above.
I also should have mentioned, KEEP THE ORIGINAL COHOKUM.EXE, install the cohokum_test.exe right next to it. You can run either one that way. There are a couple of problems in the current Build that still need to be fixed. The Havok doesn't load, and the Cuba maps are messed up. The other modders need to fix those, I haven't worked on the sim that long, just the last two weeks. The Havok & Cuba Maps work with the stable release version 1.16.0. Javelin
Wow, this thread has had over 335 views and I only started it yesterday... There are a lot more people involved in EECH than I realized. Nice!
I'm not surprised at all.everyone played or play eech.And everyone pray for a realistic flight model for ~10 years.Such sad times are now, that people are so lazy to write a comment or say thanks.
Dang, the power changes unbalanced the Alt-Hover control loop. Sorry about that. I'll fix it tomorrow. You might want to go back to the old dyn settings files until I can get it fixed.
OK, I've uploaded test set 3 to the server. The main helicopters are working great, but there are problems with a few of the others.
The Bell AH-1's still fly nose down for some reason, I need to figure out why. That includes the Viper, Seacobra & Supercobra. The Kiowa Warrior has a power problem I don't seem to be able to fix the normal way, it's under powered for some reason. Some of the secondary helos, like the SuperStallion and the Hook, have an engine explosion after takeoff. Not sure what that's all about yet.
If a helo you want to fly goes haywire, delete the .dyn file and it will revert back to the defaults. It will fly just like an Apache that way.
I'm working on the problems, but it might take some time to figure out.
It's really great to see another talented programmer here!
Originally Posted by Javelin
The Kiowa Warrior has a power problem I don't seem to be able to fix the normal way, it's under powered for some reason.
Problem looks to be there since it was added as flyable helicopter. Without autopilot it was nearly impossible to not crash this heli - very often happen that it suddenly fall down. Especially when trying to avoid enemy missile and descending altitude in hover hold mode.
When I press right alt+j helicopter apache D explode. When press ctr+h hud looks like this
With your exe i have BIG fps drop. In apache from ~30 to 15. checked several times on the same map and mission.and work hdd disk is strange, often reads something. Normally it is not.
Hi XIII, The commands to raise and lower the hover height are L-Alt-J and L-Alt-K, I don't know what R-Alt-J is supposed to do. Same with Ctrl-H. That's a new one on me, some kind of a grid display. Stable-Hover is L-Shft-H. Some command event handling is in the dynamics section, the flying commands, but the rest are in other sections of the code I haven't dug around in. The grid display is probably in avionics, but Ctrl-H I wouldn't know where to look.
I don't know about the fps impact, I haven't compiled the code with specific settings. When you place the test.exe next to the cohokum.exe it should use all the same settings files as you've used before, I'm not sure what would be different.
Im not programmer,no have idea,but maybe you use wrong version software? For compiling,or source code. Maybe thealx say something what cause big fps drop between 1.16 and your exe.
I've used the most current version of the Master Branch 1.16.0+changes on the EECH server, and I'm using Watcom 1.9, OpenAL11, but I haven't incorporated OgreEE yet. Maybe that's the difference. Ogre moves some of the graphics processing to the graphics card. It isn't fully incorporated yet though, the guys are just starting on that upgrade.
Kiowa Warrior: I've tried just about everything I can think of, but I haven't had any success at altering the Kiowa. The problem is not in the dyn file and it's not in the ki_dyn.c file, I replaced both of those files with generic Comanche files as a test. No Luck. There are a lot of custom statements in the code to handle the Kiowa's single engine, maybe if we ripped all that out and simply halved the engine size (and kept two) that might fix it.
I see that exe's size is 8MB, instead of 6MB. it means it's a debug build (dmake), not "commercial" (cmake). just recompile it that way and FPS will get to normal.
Kiowa has problems with throttle calculation - Arneh have added some complicated code for engines, but looks like it works only for two engines properly. Haven't tried to fix it, afraid to broke it completely.
I see that exe's size is 8MB, instead of 6MB. it means it's a debug build (dmake), not "commercial" (cmake). just recompile it that way and FPS will get to normal.
Hey, I can fix that! I uploaded a new test3 version using all cmake this time. I altered my remake.bat to only delete the dynamics .obj files, but I forgot that right before I edited it I had ran dmake so all of the other .obj files were still debug versions. Nice call thealx, I missed that.
I've almost got all of the dynamics data files updated and corrected, except for the Hook and the SuperStallion. For some reason those two are blowing up (engine explosion) right after takeoff. I still need to fix those two. The others seem to be running quite well, except the Kiowa which can't currently be adjusted. I had to raise the lift multiplier on the AH-1's and the Hind to fix a power problem and balance the performance of the helos, but other than that, the real numbers seem to be working out just fine. The inertial values are key in making the helos behave like the real thing.
It may be a week or more before I get back to it, though. Work has expanded and I won't have much time the next few weeks. We're prepping for the next robotic inspection job which is in Florida in two weeks. www.mantarobotics.com
OK, I had an hour so I fixed the exploding SuperStallion and the Hook. I had to scale them down engineering wise, the masses and torque forces the helicopters generate (because they are so freakishly heavy) were exceeding the torque limits built into the damage routines. They fit into the model now, fly like they're supposed to, and don't explode. I uploaded all of the flyable helicopter dyn files onto the server, along with the recompiled .exe (no debug code!). Have fun!
I still intend on fixing the Kiowa, but it will have to wait until I get time, maybe this weekend. I'd also like to fix the nose-down problem of the Bell AH-1's, but that will have to wait too. I've also noticed that the Hind has no roll restoring forces, which needs to be looked into as well. Javelin
OK, One last round of changes. I went backwards to the 1.16.0 Release version of the code and added in just my upgrades to it. Now the Havok works, and so do the Cuba maps. Yes!
I also committed the changes through Git to Master, so the upgrades are entered into the repository now. I didn't see them pop up, so I I'm not quite sure if I did it correctly.
Something's wrong though, give me 15 minutes to fix it... sorry about that.
OK, it's back up again, but the new Bob-Up mode doesn't work, version 1.16.0 of the code broke it, it won't allow me to use "P" for commands at all now.
Thealx please,if you no have plans in close future release something big,release this as small patch. With fixed menu fonts,with new cockpit lighting,with fixed nvg view in apache,with Poland map,and havoc gauges. Or without map and gauges,if this too much work.this thread has 1200 views in 5 days. People waiting for better Fm.
Hey guys, I tried entering my physics code changes into the Master repository using a Push this time, then a Commit. I see it entered now. Success.
I also recompiled using the havok gauges upgrade so 1.16.1 is back on line ready to download. Unfortunately PopUp still isn't working, I'll work on that this weekend. cohokum_test5.exe is up for download with the Havok gauges upgrade and working Havok helo.
OK, cohokum_test6.exe is up, I got the Pop-Up maneuver working again. Somebody changed the way the SHFT, CTRL, and ALT keys function in the code so you can use either the left or right keys and it temporarily messed up my function.
4. A new Pop-Up maneuver has been added. Position the helo behind a building or hill, engage Hover-Hold or Stable-Hover-Hold, then press “SHFT-P” to pop up 20 meters to fire. Press it again to drop back down. "P" is for Pop-Up. This is an automated version of Bob-Up as described in the manual. You could also engage Bob-Up mode "O" on the HUD which gives you a target heading marker. The drift octagon isn't really needed if you use the new Hover-Hold, it's really stable and doesn't drift unless the wind speed is really high. You must be in Hover mode for this function to work.
I was interested in how the actual helicopters implement advanced control functions like these and found a paper detailing the testing done on the Comanche control system for the prototypes. I found that they implement Hover-Hold, Altitude-Hold, and one more, Velocity-Stabilization.
Hover-Hold was limited to horizontal and axial motion, no vertical control was implemented because it was intended to be used in conjunction with Altitude-Hold. Our Hover-Hold does all three axes.
The Comanche Altitude-Hold has two modes, below 300 ft it uses the radar altitude like ours currently does, above 300 ft it uses the barometric altitude. I might add the barometric part into ours. The professional system also doesn't concern itself with station keeping, heading keeping, or speed control, all it does is maintain altitude. The professional system also uses a manual control lever, which is used to perform the Bob-Up maneuver as described in the Enemy Engaged manual. We now have an automated version of that. You can also use the incremental hover height adjustments (Alt-J and Alt-K) similar to the lever control described in the paper.
Velocity-Stabilization from what I can tell was only for forward speeds, lateral control was not considered. I've implemented a form of Velocity-Stabilization when you select Altitude-Hold in our control system already. It attempts to keep your speed up to about 50 knots on the low end, and below about 110 knots on the high end. You can be anywhere in that range and it doesn't interfere, and you can over-ride it by simply moving the control stick. The paper didn't go into enough detail on how it functions, so I don't have any more changes in mind at this point. It's mostly for use as a long-distance cruise control, which isn't really too much of an issue with our sim anyway.
I suppose we could separate out each control function like they've done in the professional system, but I don't really see the advantage of that. I really like the controls the way they function now.
I just thought you guys might like knowing that our sim is on par now with the actual flight control systems of the more advanced helicopters.
I love now use hover hold and turn on the autopilot.at 10 g you can see all the forces that work on a helicopter.It's amazing that you came here two weeks ago and you did such a game changer.
Thanks XIII ! It really does change the nature of the sim, doesn't it. Flying the helos is such a pleasure now.
Cohokum_Test7.exe is up on the server. Two major changes.
1. I altered Altitude-Hold to add the Barometric Altitude mode the real Comanche has. When you engage it over 200 meters (660 ft) your helo flys level at altitude, until you fly at a mountain. When your Radar Altitude drops to less than 100 meters (about 300 ft) it shifts into ground following mode so you don't hit the mountain. It's pretty seamless in operation. All of the Russian helicopters do just fine on this mode also.
In testing it I ran into an annoying problem, though. Why does the Comanche Altimeter quit at 500 ft? That's just stupid, someone should fix that. The Apache at least goes up to 1500 ft.
2. I fixed the nose-down problem with the AH-1's, so now the Viper, SeaCobra, and SuperCobra will fly correctly on Altitude-Hold. Before, over 100 knots the darn things would nose down and hit the ground. I don't really know why, but I fixed it anyway.
Thanks XIII ! It really does change the nature of the sim, doesn't it. Flying the helos is such a pleasure now.
Cohokum_Test7.exe is up on the server. Two major changes.
1. I altered Altitude-Hold to add the Barometric Altitude mode the real Comanche has. When you engage it over 200 meters (660 ft) your helo flys level at altitude, until you fly at a mountain. When your Radar Altitude drops to less than 100 meters (about 300 ft) it shifts into ground following mode so you don't hit the mountain. It's pretty seamless in operation. All of the Russian helicopters do just fine on this mode also.
In testing it I ran into an annoying problem, though. Why does the Comanche Altimeter quit at 500 ft? That's just stupid, someone should fix that. The Apache at least goes up to 1500 ft.
2. I fixed the nose-down problem with the AH-1's, so now the Viper, SeaCobra, and SuperCobra will fly correctly on Altitude-Hold. Before, over 100 knots the darn things would nose down and hit the ground. I don't really know why, but I fixed it anyway.
Brilliant work!
As for the Comanche quitting at 500ft, I think I remember seeing somewhere that the radar alt stopped at 500ft, so that was how the gauge was built. I remember seeing something like that for my blackhawk project, but I've not looked at the code for quite a while now I can't really remember (makes mental note to pick up the blackhawk project again)
In the research paper I found on the Comanche controls, it said the altimeter switches over to Barometric Altitude at about that height. It wasn't supposed to stop dead. It would be reasonable though, to simply extend it up to 1500 ft (or more) like the Apache. The Russian Helo altimeters switch over at 300 meters.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19940008849.pdf On page 424 it says the altimeter switches between radar altitude and barometric altitude at 300 ft. The HMD shown in the paper is also reversed to the EECH HMD, the altitude is on the left vs. the right on page 425. It could have changed when they built the prototypes, though.
I also just read a description of the Ka-50 Blackshark control modes. It's just as capable as the Comanche, but far more complicated to operate than ours.
Noob question :did you change something about the FM code?I know you edit dyn files.but is it the same old flight model that has nothing to do with the laws of physics?What do you think about the flight model now? .Of course, I'm not asking about auto hower and other things.
The Advanced Flight Model 2 isn't bad, there are only a couple of items that are not physics based. FM2 uses an artificial vertical restorative force rather than off-setting the center of gravity of the helo to use the weight to correctly bring it back to vertical. There is also an artificial heading restorative force which they used instead of modeling the rear vertical stabilizers. Everything else is correctly physics modeled, especially the main rotor. The body drag force should also be moved slightly if I move the center of gravity and the weight force. Other than that, it's actually a pretty good model.
The "G" key Auto-Pilot is another issue altogether, it's not physics based at all. It moves you around without any basis in physics. I'll look at that next, maybe in a few weeks when I get back from the next work trip. Enemy aircraft are probably controlled the same way, but you don't notice it as much since you aren't in the cockpit.
Thinking about it, there are two other forces/behaviors that could be added in. When you hover the helo will drift sideways because of the tail rotor side force. You need a little cyclic angle to counter it. In most helos the manufacturer off-sets the weight distribution to remove this tendency. There is also a gyroscopic force that could be modeled. Let me see if I can get this right... While you are in the act of turning to the right in a helo with a counter-clockwise main rotor, the nose will pitch slightly down during the turn. Turn left and it pitches up. That might be backwards, I'd have to get out my dynamics text to check. These behaviors are hardly noticable, so it isn't that big of a deal if they aren't in the sim. I can go through the code and put in the weight restorative force and the rear stabilizers and remove the artificial ones if you guys want me to. It's pretty close to accurate now, though.
Thanks.I think you will get a lot of useful information from the manual to dcs black shark.about autopilot modes, hover and so on.on the internet are available manuals in pdf.
Mostly FM2 just needed the correct Inertial values put in, along with the correct weights and engine horsepower. Once I got those numbers in it started to behave a lot better.
I noticed a problem in the Mi-24 Hind, though. It doesn't have the correct vertical restorative force in there, it hangs and doesn't want to come back to vertical if you center the cyclic. I need to look into that. Hopefully it's just something simple like a setting that's missing.
I figured out the Mi-24 Hind problem, the Cg is too high up. Lower it about 0.5 meters and towards the rear about 0.022 meters and it behaves much better. It operates quite well on the Alt-Hold controller when you adjust it a bit. I'm not going to bother entering the Hind change until I get the Kiowa fixed though, then I'll enter both fixes at once. The Kiowa is going to take quite a bit more work to figure out.
I tried this out today in the Apache only, and it's great. The helo feels much more realistic in manoeuvring.
I was trying out the hover hold and pop-up. I hit the ground a few times, so I'll try and recreate it and see what happens.
Also, when I engage Hover or Stable-hover, it drops me to 20m and hovers there. Even if I was much higher when I engaged it. Again, I'll try it again and see if it happens every time.
Another thing I noticed. When I first engaged Pop up, it went up 20m. But then after I'd used alt-j/k to adjust my height, it went up a lot more.
It also dropped me into the ground when I switched pop-up off.
I think what I did was...
Engage pop-up, adjust height down using alt-J dis-engage pop-up - dropped to the ground.
I didn't have time to properly watch everything I was doing, so I'll try it step by step. I'll try it another time and let you know.
Hi Messyhead, Stable-Hover sets the Hover height and maintains that height. Alt-J and Alt-K adjust the Hover height down/up respectively. Watch your altitude gauge as you press the keys, it jogs up or down 10 ft or 5 meters depending upon whether you are blue or red.
Pop-Up works Up and Down from the Hover height. Pop-Up toggles Up 20m on the first keypress, then Down 20m on the second keypress.
Hi Messyhead, Stable-Hover sets the Hover height and maintains that height. Alt-J and Alt-K adjust the Hover height down/up respectively. Watch your altitude gauge as you press the keys, it jogs up or down 10 ft or 5 meters depending upon whether you are blue or red.
Pop-Up works Up and Down from the Hover height. Pop-Up toggles Up 20m on the first keypress, then Down 20m on the second keypress.
Does that clear up the functions?
Is blue feet, and red metres?
In the Apache, it was going up and down by around 70 marks (whether that's feet or metres). But that was after I'd already used the height adjustment. I'll try it again, and keep track of what I'm doing. i was just playing around quickly with it.
p.s. I'm a software tester, and the fact I think I've spotted an issue and not properly recreated it is bothering me. I'll do it justice next time I'm on
It sounds like you aren't actually engaging Hover-Hold or Stable-Hover-Hold. If you are dropping down to 20m, it stops because of the ground effect, you are not actually hovering. There is a complication to engaging the Hover modes in the Razorworks code. You have to be below the speed limit of (now) 40 knots AND you have to let go of the joystick... It has to be centered. I found that part in the code when I went in to edit it. I forget to let go of the joystick every once in awhile myself. It's pretty annoying if you don't know it's in there. I don't think it's even mentioned in the manual either.
I checked, and it's not in the manual. There is a warning for being over 40 knots, but it doesn't sound because the recording is blank. There isn't a warning if you don't center the joystick, it just doesn't engage. Annoying as hell. It might be in there because any offset of the joystick disengages Hover mode. I'll test it tonight, but I don't think I can take it out without breaking it.
this post will need to be put in the changelog as the new version will be released.without explanation it will be hard.And maybe in first post?not everyone read txt.
Good Idea XIII. I added a few notes into the first post to clarify the controls. I also edited the instructions that come with the download.
Messyhead, As a note, when you engage Stable-Hover the nose pops up a few degrees and the speed drops off to zero over the next few seconds. There is also an announcement "Hover Hold ON" or something like that. That's how you can tell if it engaged or not. Silence means it didn't engage. It targets your altitude at the moment you push the button. If it drops towards the ground (Hover instead of Stable-Hover) you aren't using the correct Hover mode or it didn't engage (speed>40knots or the joystick not centered).
I can see the software cutting your speed down to zero, so it is engaging something, it just isn't seeing the shift key down.
I retested on my computer using an Apache and I did get one instance in about 30 where it didn't process the shift key, it was right after I had used the Alt key for Altitude-Hold. I held shift down and tapped "H" twice (Hover Off then back On) and it reset and worked properly.
OK, I was able to duplicate your problem in a Ka-52 Alligator. It wouldn't control the collective no matter what I did. The Ka-50 Blackshark worked. The Ka-52 worked the second time at a low altitude, but it wasn't locking onto the correct altitude when I turn it off and on again. It looks like the altitude variable it uses (from the Razorworks code) isn't consistently updated, I'll have to use a different variable in the code.
I don't think engine power was affecting the altitude setting, the setting wasn't initialized so it was a ridiculous number like 2965703.15423549. That's why it went up. If you selected Alt-Hover first, the Alt-Hover routine initialized the variable and Stable-Hover would afterwards lock onto the Alt-Hover setting. That behavior was confusing the issue. I almost always go into Alt-Hover right after takeoff, so I wasn't seeing the problem later when I went into Stable-Hover mode.
I tested that new build for Hover and Stable Hover and both now work as expected.
I've now moved on to testing Pop-Up.
Question: with Pop-Up engaged, should Alt-J/K adjust the altitude? They do at the moment.
The problem with allowing the height to be adjusted once Pop-Up is engaged, is I can adjust it down. So when I disengage Pop-Up (or Pop-Down again), it hits the ground if it's lower than the 20 metres that it moves by. Either guard against this, or don't allow Alt-J/K to adjust the height. I prefer guarding against it though, as I could pop-up too high and want to adjust it down slightly.
Another issue I found, when in stable hover, and I engage pop-up. If I then move the cyclic to disengage stable hover I can fly around and all is fine. But if I go back into stable hover, and hit Shift-P to Pop-Up, it goes down instead of Up as I was already "popped-up" before. This could end in a collision with the ground. Maybe reset the pop-up variable when hover disengages?
Good feedback. I can gaurd against hitting the ground by checking the altitude before Popping Down. I can also set it up to reset after dis-engaging Hover mode.
OK, cohokum_test9.exe is up on the server with the two changes mentioned above.
You are now limited to a Pop-Down to 5 meters so it won't hit the ground. If that isn't low enough tell me and we'll trim it down some. And pushing the cyclic dis-engaging Hover mode now resets the Pop-Up status so the next time it will Pop Up, never down.
You guys also need to tell me if a 20 meter Pop-Up is the right amount. It can be smaller or larger, just let me know what works best.
Good feedback. I can gaurd against hitting the ground by checking the altitude before Popping Down. I can also set it up to reset after dis-engaging Hover mode.
OK, cohokum_test9.exe is up on the server with the two changes mentioned above.
You are now limited to a Pop-Down of 5 meters so it won't hit the ground. If that isn't low enough tell me and we'll trim it down some. And pushing the cyclic dis-engaging Hover mode now resets the Pop-Up status so the next time it will Pop Up, never down.
You guys also need to tell me if a 20 meter Pop-Up is the right amount. It can be smaller or larger, just let me know what works best.
Thanks, I'll try and give it a go tonight. I've only tested so far in free flight, and not trying any combat. So I've not used the pop-up in a conflict situation.
I'll try and use it some more when targeting, and see how it works out. My gut feeling is the 20 metres is fine. You'll just need to position so the pop-up will take you above the cover you're using, fire off weapons, then pop-down. I think the ability to do that quickly to return to cover is key, more than the height it moves. It makes you have to think more tactically when engaging, so you have to now use cover, and not just fly in with all guns blazing.
You can hit Pop-Down early too, you don't have to wait until it finishes rising. Pop-Up and rise just until you can fire cleanly, then mash the buttons again to drop back down. I also noticed that Pop-Down is a little faster than Pop-Up, gravity helps on the way down.
I was going to have a go at editing the existing keyguide to update it with keys for the Hover hold. I've got Adobe Acrobat, but I don't have the fonts that the PDF uses. It uses an old version of Arial mostly, from older versions of Windows and Word. I can open it in Adobe Illustrator, but I'd need to retype all of the keys, as the text isn't editable as text. I think I'll leave it for now.
Edit: Actually, there's a version 3 of the keyguide that thealx updated linked from the wiki main page. I don't think I've noticed that before. Thealx, if you see this, could you let me know how you edited the file?
For me 20 m is also ok. Looks like we have a dream team great programmer and a great software tester
Thanks XIII! We aim to please. We're over 3000 hits on this thread now, so somebody is watching us besides you guys.
Any new posts will appear in the Active Threads list, so it could be members from other forums checking up on what's going on. Hopefully if some of them decide to get in on EECH, then we can start to grow the community a bit more, and maybe get some more developers on board. There's still a lot of work that could be done to improve EECH, but we need developers.
Imo no connection. Soczkien made new best map ever in eech,and only 1200 views in half year. Javelin thread 3300 views in 2 weeks. People just dont want install unstable beta versions. Waiting for stable. When see thread 1.17 is out,or professional flight model is out,then downloading.
I Edit: Actually, there's a version 3 of the keyguide that thealx updated linked from the wiki main page. I don't think I've noticed that before. Thealx, if you see this, could you let me know how you edited the file?
I think it was Foxit PhantomPDF (ver. 6.1 in my case), it has tool "Edit object" to apply changes to the existing texts or copy/past any text or image.
If you will apply changes, please also add Ctrl+V for cockpit light
I Edit: Actually, there's a version 3 of the keyguide that thealx updated linked from the wiki main page. I don't think I've noticed that before. Thealx, if you see this, could you let me know how you edited the file?
I think it was Foxit PhantomPDF (ver. 6.1 in my case), it has tool "Edit object" to apply changes to the existing texts or copy/past any text or image.
If you will apply changes, please also add Ctrl+V for cockpit light
OK guys, Build 10 is now up for download, along with a new set of .dyn settings files.
I finished working over the physics settings for ALL of the flyable helicopters, everything is updated now.
Two of the helos will still not read in the .dyn files (the Mi-24 Hind and the Ka-50 Hokum) so I inputted the correct physics values directly into the default settings in the compiled C++ code for these two helicopters. All of the others read the .dyn files like they're supposed to. Several also had errors in the .dyn file format that required fixing.
I'll be working on the Auto-Pilot next, but that may take a while to complete.
Thanks Havoc13, It makes a huge difference doesn't it. I use Stable-Hover and Altitude-Hold all the time now, and the helos fly more like they should. I'm looking at the external MFD's right now since I just hooked mine up, the Blackshark and the Hind aren't working.
Just to elaborate on how things work for the purists out there, the Velocity Stabilization part of the EECH Alt-Hold control only works while traveling forwards. It doesn't maintain a velocity or heading sideways or backwards like the real Comanche flight control system does. Sorry about that. It would really take a LOT of work in order to make it function sideways. Right now it only controls the Pitch, sideways control would have to use a mix of Pitch and Roll in order to work correctly. On the real Comanche, Velocity Stabilization is also on a separate button from Altitude Hold, it's combined on the Hover Hold button.
On our system Hover/Stable Hover are for sitting still, Altitude Hold is for terrain following. Here's what the panel looked like in the real Comanche:
I just wanted to say thanks for this brilliant mod I bumped into this thread totally by chance while googling a solution for something else in EECH, and I'm pretty much blown away - it is very much the kind of functionality I always wanted in the game, and your work on it is very much appreciated!
If you're having trim problems, I feel bad for you son I got ninety-nine problems, but my pitch ain't one...
By the way, one thing I've noticed while trying to resolve my crash problems: if I delete my eech.ini and let 1.16.10 generate one, it will set the [WUT] section to "wut=GWUT1161.CSV ". With the hover mods version installed on top of 1.16.0, there's not actually such a file and it results in weapons and the flight model not working properly. Does that new WUT file actually exist somewhere and I missed it, or am I right to change it to the (existing) GWUT1160.CSV instead?
Last edited by CCIP; 09/04/1803:59 AM.
If you're having trim problems, I feel bad for you son I got ninety-nine problems, but my pitch ain't one...
First of all let me applaud this Community and your mod in particular. And thank of course for time and hard work. Great and indeed game-changing improvements.
Unfortunately cohokum_test10.exe returns for me this error: "unable to create direct input ". I made all new installation from original CD I had fr om the past and "eech-allmods-1.16.0FIX1-installer" which all that worked fine until I run cohokum_test10.exe. My computer goes into loop and trying to exit the program with Window Task Manager wipes all out from the desktop. Again I repeat that eech 1.16 installation works for me without any problems really. Using Saitek x52.
Would love to try this new mod by Javelin and any help indeed would be much appreciated.
Direct Input is a DirectX module associated with joysticks, mice, and the like. The mod doesn't alter anything related to that at all.
You might try this: select the default controls setup using 1.16.0 and save it (no custom joystick selections, just the standard keyboard controls). It might be a good idea to unplug the joystick too, just for the next test. Try test10.exe with that setup and see if it launches properly using just the keyboard, then let us know how that goes.
My problem was related to antivirus AVG and after disabling it your mod run flawlessly.
After trying it very very briefly I have to admit that not only flight models feel better but having all altitude hold hover hold etc. features really working in the simulation one can really "stalk the prey" more efficiently and satisfactory. I hope you will continue this quest to improve EECH because so far changes you made have been really of great importance and success. Thank you.
Lately, I have programmed my stick with all "auto" important commands and truly enjoyed some of the skirmishes and even free flights. I remember reading in previous posts of this thread that next step on your list would be to take on autopilot feature. What is wrong with autopilot ? Flying around I see some inconsistencies and some problems but wanted to hear from the expert/experts. Thanks again for your important contribution in making this old helo sim interesting again.
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
Hi Polak, I've decided not to modify the AutoPilot since it does seem to operate reasonably well. I've been busy playing the sim instead!
Indeed I am too slowly re-learning this sim.
As far as Autopilot is concerned I only noticed that it hesitates right after the takeoff. Also Hover Hold works in Autopilot no matter what speed it is.
Some other minor problems maybe there but then again it the heat of the battle it is easy to lose track of the proper key commands which are pretty "many" to remember as well as simulation is pretty complex and intense in what is going on around the player. I decided to give more time into learning all the important key commands because without it is rather hard to fully enjoy.
So it is pretty much on going and slow process "two steps forward and one back". Time permitting I shall be checking this forum for news and interesting discussions. Thanks.
Just a quick feedback : I also had the "unable to create direct input" error at launch. The game started fine after clicking "OK", but the Hover Mod didn't work correctly. The Hover Mod has worked as expected (ie very well indeed) since I added the EECH path to my anti-virus software's exclusion list. It might be interesteing to state that in the README file.
Javelin - I have tested the above hover mod and everything seems to be ok apart from the sky during the night (it's turning red now and then depending where I look) - see below screenshot
I have tried this after doing a clean 1.16 install so nothing has been touched. It must be the cohokum_test10.exe as using the normal one (cohokum.exe) does not create this gory looking sky Will do some more tests but so far I have tried different graphic options, different resolutions, filters, compatibility modes, blah blah blah blah. Need to get under my car now but might have some more time this evening to whack another few tests.
***************************************** A few minutes later ************************************************
Pulled a clean 1.16 installation folder and just tried the cohokum_test10.exe and I can confirm that the red sky appears again so it is something withing that exe file that is not quite right. I am wondering if it is related to the fact that the cockpit during the night time has got a different lighting...maybe there is something there? So far I have launched the cohokum_test10.exe at least 20 times or more so running out of options here. For Javelin this would probably be a 15 min job to verify what has changed. The only thing I can do atm is to report any issues my end.
Brian - does it work ok for you during the night missions?
When I get a minute I will be tempted to install Windows 7 and see if that problem goes away or not as currently I am using Win10
Right, will give it a go. I am also tempted to take the whole Razorworks game folder with me to work and test it there ha ha ha...just hope that my boss will not find out
***************************Update at 17:42****************************
Installed Win 7 without anything (just latest GFX and MOBO drivers) - all good. It appears that the GFX driver version on W7 was 417.01 where Win10 had 416.xx so will see what happens when I update Win10 GFX drivers.
***************************Update at 20:18******************************
Win 10 sucks, played on Win7, no probs at all so might have to keep a separate OS just for EECH
Javelin please could you convert your fantastic flight model into clickable cockpits? Looks like ,that there will be no new versions anymore clickable cockpits have great avionics, and it would be great to fly with your flight model, even if it's an unfinished version. Please ,think about it.
Clickable Cockpits are based on 1.15.2, but I don't think I have access to that version of the code, I have 1.16.0 Fix1 which is the most current. I've been waiting for the Clickable Cockpits mod to catch up to 1.16.0 which has been out since March of 2016. It's been out almost three years now! I uploaded all of the Hover Mods to the codebase so they won't get left behind on the next release.
Maybe thealx can share you source files for clickable cockpits.We are all waiting for a new version, but probably nothing will happen.Clickable has few bugs, but is playable.With your flight model would be great.Thank you for your work.All the best
OK guys, I made a slight adjustment to the Hover modes. I made an unrelated correction to the Joysticks to remove the deadbands and it made the Heading drift too much in Hover mode. I've added in a Heading dampener, a bit like a Heading-Lock control to correct the problem. The Apache, Comanche, Blackshark, Ka-52, and Havoc all in reality have a Heading-Lock control in the control system. It now engages when you are in Hover mode.
I also changed the download link at the start of this thread to one that includes ALL of my upgrades to the code. The list is getting longer and longer.
In latest build test16 i have many ctd, or message application stopped working. probably most or all while flying mi28. one repetitive thing which I know for sure - in all helicopters when I press the exit during flight ctr x the game go to the desktop. Always when i press ctrl x in mi 28 i have ctd and info game stopped working. When i run debug exe and press ctrl x i got this message (screen , and info in debug log. ************************************ FATAL *********************************** Attempt to destroy required texture AVCKPT_DISPLAY_LHS_MFD Screens destroyed: 2619 @ 118.40
in previous builds this is not there, so this problem is related to the display of engine power.something is still wrong.
Hmmm. The Mi-28 has an external flight information MFD as does the Mi-24 which I added. I did use the AVCKPT_DISPLAY_LHS_MFD for the external MFD display for cockpits, but I just used it, I didn't set it up or close it down.
The Mi-28 and Mi-24 flight_texture_screen which uses that texture are both created and destroyed correctly when you select or shut down the helo normally. I wonder if Ctrl-X bypasses the deinitialize functions. I've never looked at that command's code before. Does anyone know where it's located in the code? I wonder if that command is somehow helicopter specific. It shouldn't be.
I never shut the program down that way myself, I always exit through the menus.
ctrl x you leave immediately If you run the game many times to check something, these several seconds make a difference.I'm not sure if more ctd appears during the flight, I don't remember now. but they were also possible.
Run Apache vs Havok once to unpack the graphics data.
Install Comanche vs Havok.
Install mod pack 1.16.0FIX1.
Install your hover fix (build 16).
I tried to do some free flights using your hover fix, but the game always crashes when I select my helicopter. If I use the original cohokum.exe it's fine.
You said in the OP that "this test version is based on 1.16.0", but it says v1.16.1 in the bottom right corner when the game is loading.
Am I missing a patch or something? Because that might explain why my game is crashing constantly.
I think you also have to install the "Mi-28 Working Instrument Needles" upgrade as well. Try that, then test my Hover Fix mod and let me know if it works or not. If it does, I'll add that to the thread where it's downloaded so the next person doesn't hit the same problem.
I have just about every mod there is installed in my copy and it all works fine. We just have to figure out which piece is missing.
Sorry Banita, but I still have no idea what "ctd" means.
Frequent critical error and crash to desktop when flying mi28 since the last mi28 update.I gave two specific files that cause problems, what else can be done dont know.
These releases are test releases. They might have problems. The only stable releases are given with an installer. Consider these exprimental until the bugs have been fixed, and an installer version is posted. It would also increase the version number, and have an official forum post.
[align:left][/align]"These releases are test releases." "Please leave comments here in the forum and I'll work on fixing any issues or features that you come up with. Javelin"
Therefore i reported 4 bugs. graphical errors in flir =Javelin "it's not bug its feature." crash to desktop when ctrl x =Javelin"it's not bug its feature." crash to desktop when flying mi28 ,crash AVCKPT_DISPLAY_LHS_MFD with mfd ASSERT 'texture' (E:\Temp\00_EnemyEngaged\EECHSourceCode\modules\graphics\f3d.c:513) Javelin="it's not bug its feature."or alternatively "you can fix it yourself." what is the point of reporting bugs if i hear every time I'm wrong? Do I as a complete layman must say to the outstanding programmer Javelin,that even if he did not touch a piece of code, the programming is so that there are errors that we do not expect?really? if I say that this and this error has not appeared before, and I am convinced that it caused by him work in code and he says it's definitely not his bug? Really? I will not say that I have reported about ctd several times, and after a few months we find out that Javelin does not know what a ctd is.REALLY? I don't understand something here. I wish health everyone , all the best. Bye
I didn't ignore your bug reports, I just can't fix them.
The first one is a bug in the graphics rendering engine, Microsoft Direct-X something or other. I can't fix Direct-X, Microsoft has the source code for that. The error has always been there, you just couldn't see it until I fixed the Flir video.
The Ctrl-X crash to desktop I can't repeat, so how can I find it and fix it? Besides, exiting the program normally still works so you could simply not use Ctrl-X. Ctrl-X was meant as an emergency exit from the program anyway. It isn't closing things out cleanly like the program does when you exit normally.
Crash to desktop via the asserted texture, I'm not even sure how it happens because I just used an available texture, I didn't create or close it out. Nobody else has reported the problem, so I'm not sure how to fix it. I could try disabling the code for all of the exported MFD's. That's kind of going backwards, though. Has anybody else seen this error guys? Do you have the "Mi-28 Working Instrument Needles" upgrade installed? That is needed as well.
Besides, it's almost Christmas! Everybody is off having fun!
Crash to desktop via the asserted texture, I'm not even sure how it happens because I just used an available texture, I didn't create or close it out. Nobody else has reported the problem, so I'm not sure how to fix it. I could try disabling the code for all of the exported MFD's. That's kind of going backwards, though. Has anybody else seen this error guys? Do you have the "Mi-28 Working Instrument Needles" upgrade installed? That is needed as well.
Installing the instrument needles upgrade fixed my crashing.
Unfortunately. I've noticed some bigger problems. I'll be flying along just fine, then suddenly, the helicopter physics will flip-out saying "main rotor damaged", causing me to fall and crash to my death. I'm not over torque and I haven't taken any damage from enemy fire - this happens on free flight. I have absolutely no idea what's causing this.
Is there another patch I'm missing or some configuration step I've missed?
Also the Kiowa feels extremely heavy. I can't take off without over-torquing. Is that intentional?
Sorry, but there is something fundamentally wrong with the Kiowa code. I've hunted high and low and I've never been able to find the problem. It has something to do with the single engine power code which was customized for the Kiowa by one of the previous modders. It's spread out through so many modules it's hard to trace. I just don't fly the Kiowa anymore. Sorry about that. Was the Kiowa the one that flipped out with "main rotor damage"? That's the only helo in the sim that I know of that has a physics problem.
Sorry, but there is something fundamentally wrong with the Kiowa code. I've hunted high and low and I've never been able to find the problem. It has something to do with the single engine power code which was customized for the Kiowa by one of the previous modders. It's spread out through so many modules it's hard to trace. I just don't fly the Kiowa anymore. Sorry about that.
Oh well, nevermind. I'm sure you can't fly the Kiowa in the vanilla game anyway - like they say, what you never had, you never missed lol.
Originally Posted by Javelin
Was the Kiowa the one that flipped out with "main rotor damage"?
I've had it with the Kiowa and the AH-64D Apache Longbow for sure. If I get the time I'll see if I can make a quick video to illustrate the problem. I might also do a test with just the mouse and keyboard to rule out if it's a joystick issue.
I've made some tests with latest build and noticed issue with ceiling for several helicopters. As I remember, when I've added flight model #2, helicopters ceiling in perfect conditions (almost empty fuel tank, no overtorque, positive forward speed) was pretty close to real performance values. However, after your changes I was able to climb on AH-64D over 30 000 ft, and over 10 000 m on Mi-28. Do you have time and interest to revise your air density changes? It may be something else - like dry weight calculation, lift forces issues etc. but I haven't checked latest commits yet so can't provide any clue.
I altered the air density because the helo's couldn't hover. I found that someone had gone in and divided the air density by 1.3 for all of the helo's so I corrected it back to 1.0. 30% lower and they couldn't hover, the air density equated to about 20,000 ft altitude. If the change I made increases the ultimate ceiling greater than it should be, then I would guess the 'get_air_density' command isn't set up correctly.
It's located in \aphavoc\source\misc\airspeed.c
float get_air_density (float altitude) { float m = 0.0289644, // physics constants r = 8.31447, l = 0.0065, p0 = 101325, // standard air pressure, Pa t0 = 288.15, // standard temperature, K t = t0 - l * altitude, // actual temperature, K p = p0 * exp(- (G * m * altitude) / (r * t0)), // air pressure, Pa air_density = p * m / (r * t); // kg/m^3
I have added this precise air density formula to make ballistics calculator work. After quick check I can say that it gives proper value unlike default function with simple array of values instead of real life calculations that was replaced in 2014.
As example, air density at 1500m (8*C base temp) is 1,06144106993015 given by this function, 1.061919 by random online calculator in old function, at 5000ft density is 0.928
Another check - at 4572m = 0,794604829807298 15000 ft = 0.793
which is pretty close. Looks like wrong density values near to surface was accounted by original flight model, or hovering code. As result - helicopter lift too small at surface and fine at ceiling, or fine at surface and too strong above ceiling. Total headache.
BANITA, I can confirm game crash because of texture unload. It is not related with changes of this topic, but with Havoc instruments fix.
I think hovering at the surface is more important than a ceiling limit, wouldn't you guys? I don't ever fly at the ceiling myself anyway, not much up there in the sim. Hovering I use all the time.
thealx Yes i know its for gaues. Please if you have time do also editable mfds in mi28 like apache you did once,without this new cockpit for mi28 is impossible.
Me again. Get some FM tests while made code changes, overall it's fine except several moments, maybe my recommendations will be useful for you.
1. Coaxial russian helos became hard to control. Turn while hovering, using only pedals, is way too slow, like it's some superheavy Mi-26. Even worse with forward speed - at 50 km/h yaw rotation does not work at all, while in RL, because helicopter does not have tail rotor, it should work almost same easy as in hovering. video comparison attached. 2. Same for Mi-28, it's performance close to AH-64 but in the game it's like a pregnant cow. I was able to move around with damaged tail rotor for 5 minutes, something really wrong with drag forces values. 3. OH-58 is way too quick. I like how it wobbles like a pendulum, same happen for all small helicopters, but it's acting like RC model rather than 2 tons machine - triple barrel without altitude loose, I dunno... I've fixed it's unstable torque issue lately but it changes nothing. 4. You have removed yaw from CH-47, it may be fair in different situation but now there is no way to taxi. don't bother, power steering wheels added
Update
5. You have removed realism check in hover function, then bring it back, then removed again. Did it cause any problems? We should make the game as much flexible as possible - you probably have seen a lot of complaints about how difficult game became with years.
6. is it correct that ini value export_mfd_single_pos no longer usd and can be removed?
7. sometimes, when I control heavy helicopter like CH-47 or Mi-6, it's starting to shake right in the air and blow up a second later. I don't think it caused by "wrong" values in dyn files, as most of the time they fly normally, but some bug exist in the code which appear with your edits (or it was before - I don't know)
Hi guys! After test a lot, I think that old method and old keys to raise and down in hover mode its better. I think new method is good toó but using Alt + Q and Alt + A to raise and down five by five meterse, so its more easy, fast, intuitive. I am speaking of both methods with old keys. I cant adapt to new keys, I preffer dont use it. I love to play this sim with keys, its lovely, please keep it.
Finaly I like new fly model, except how low the twin helos turns. Thank for read it.
I can confirm game crash because of texture unload. It is not related with changes of this topic, but with Havoc instruments fix.
Is that fix integrated in with 1.16.2?
Are Javelin's dyn files the ones that are generated when you run FM 0 and FM 2 for the first time in 1.16.2?
The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.
[quote=thealx]I can confirm game crash because of texture unload. It is not related with changes of this topic, but with Havoc instruments fix.
Is that fix integrated in with 1.16.2?
This was all integrated in 1.16.1 (so also in 1.16.2).
Originally Posted by Reticuli
Are Javelin's dyn files the ones that are generated when you run FM 0 and FM 2 for the first time in 1.16.2?
The dyn files generated with 1.16.2 are the same as the ones Javelin edited - it doesn't matter which FM is selected in the ini, the files are generated when the game is launched.
There is also a separate download for the previous version files
On the dyn files, that's good news, then. It would seem I'm already using Javelin's dyn changes and that simplifies going forward. Thanks.
***
Javelin's tweaks, I presume both in the dyn files and the other deeper code stuff he did, overall improved flight model fidelity quite a bit in this sim, even if the in-sim and ini dynamics settings need major tweaks depending on the helo you're in or the crosscoupling setting, you need to limit available yaw in FM 0, can't fly coaxials in FM 2, and FM 2's taxiiing is busted. And of course, it's even better with PPJoy & GlovePIE for those with joystick or pressure sticks rather than long pole cyclics or FFB.
His altitude hold works reasonably-well compared to the broken original algorithm, and stable hover hold does work, too, though non-stable hover hold has torque problems. Heading turn to target lock could use substantially more authority yaw, too, as it's weaker than needed to be highly effective, but does yaw a little.
Last edited by Reticuli; 05/28/2109:18 PM.
The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.
true man of the Renaissance.
works fine
amazing, in 1.16 it was impossible.this is really a great work Javelin .![[Linked Image]](http://javelinart.com/images/Comanche_FCS.png)
