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#4421418 - 05/18/18 03:55 PM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: Hellshade]  
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I unmapped the Lables key altogether about 2 months ago so I couldn't "cheat" and see aircraft that were really far away or get any additional information about them. I do get jumped more often now, since I can't just speed over the the bad guys that the lables told me were there. LOL


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields: Between Heaven & Hell II
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

#4421432 - 05/18/18 05:48 PM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: Hellshade]  
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JJJ65 Online cool
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Originally Posted by Hellshade
...I can't just speed over the the bad guys that the lables told me were there. LOL

BTW, that is why I have created mod to customize TAC and label colors. I set the opacity (alpha channel) of enemy labels to 1 (value of 0 is unacceptable by CFS3 engine) and enemy labels are invisible.
This mod is part of WOFF UE Multimod & Customiser.

#4421439 - 05/18/18 06:24 PM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: JJJ65]  
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Originally Posted by JJJ65
Originally Posted by Hellshade
...I can't just speed over the the bad guys that the lables told me were there. LOL

BTW, that is why I have created mod to customize TAC and label colors. I set the opacity (alpha channel) of enemy labels to 1 (value of 0 is unacceptable by CFS3 engine) and enemy labels are invisible.
This mod is part of WOFF UE Multimod & Customiser.


You have made so many mods, sir. Can' tell you how much I appreciate your contributions. My favorite is still the Roll FM mod. The AI just look so much more natural flying with that.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields: Between Heaven & Hell II
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

#4421506 - 05/19/18 02:54 AM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: Hellshade]  
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I've done some testing with activity labels on and can confirm that the death-dive behavior occurs just after the AI takes more than insignificant damage. Although the activity labels still says "fighting" it always changes to "going home" immediately after the AI pulls out of the dive (there may also be a time delay before the label changes). The AI will then refuse to re-engage and will fly in a straight line to the nearest base unless it again begins to take damage from an enemy plane.

I seemed to have some minor success changing two variables in the simulation.xml file located in the main OBDWWI Over Flanders Fields folder. Scroll down to the section labeled "individual_fighter_v_fighter" and look for these variables:
Code
fightThreshold="0"
withdrawThreshold="-1"

and change to
Code
fightThreshold="-2"
withdrawThreshold="-3"

This seems to make the AI stick around a little longer before bugging out and initiating the death-dive boogie. You can try other negative values, but always make sure that withdrawThreshold is only one value less than fightThreshold.

Careful! These results are extremely preliminary and require substantial additional testing! As always, be sure to back up the simulation.xml first before making any changes.

Last edited by BuckeyeBob; 02/08/21 03:58 PM. Reason: corrected information about location of simulation.xml file
#4421509 - 05/19/18 03:10 AM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: Hellshade]  
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We may also be able to delay--but not eliminate--this problem by modifying the damage values in each aircraft's .xdp folder to make them more resistant to minor damage, although this would be a major project that would take a lot of time.

#4421512 - 05/19/18 03:24 AM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: BuckeyeBob]  
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBob
We may also be able to delay--but not eliminate--this problem by modifying the damage values in each aircraft's .xdp folder to make them more resistant to minor damage, although this would be a major project that would take a lot of time.


I will just look at playing with Threshold values first. Oddly enough though, I don't see a simulation.xml file in the CampaignData folder.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields: Between Heaven & Hell II
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

#4421516 - 05/19/18 03:53 AM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: Hellshade]  
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Sorry, it's in a subfolder. Look in the campaigns\CampaignData\Default folder.

Last edited by BuckeyeBob; 02/08/21 03:59 PM.
#4421545 - 05/19/18 11:12 AM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: Hellshade]  
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Found it. Excellent. Will give this a go later today!


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields: Between Heaven & Hell II
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

#4421575 - 05/19/18 01:59 PM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: Hellshade]  
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I'm going to go ahead and hazard a guess here...

The meteor dive is not a maneuver at all, it doesn't correspond to anything in the simulation.xml file. My guess is that it is a result of the WAYPOINT that is set for the AI when the morale modifier reaches a set minimum.


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Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
#4421590 - 05/19/18 03:14 PM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: Hellshade]  
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Hellshade Offline
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Is there a way to test that, Ace? Its a good possibility.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields: Between Heaven & Hell II
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

#4421601 - 05/19/18 04:08 PM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: Hellshade]  
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Probably by checking "AI never backs down" in workshop.


Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.

Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
#4421606 - 05/19/18 04:26 PM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: Hellshade]  
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I guess I meant is there way to make a mod that raises altitude of the waypoint for retreating aircraft. I know JJJ has a mod for setting waypoints and such, but I don't *think* it mods that waypoint.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields: Between Heaven & Hell II
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

#4421607 - 05/19/18 04:35 PM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: Hellshade]  
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Since it's a dynamically changing waypoint I'd say that it is attached to a trigger so probably not directly accessible but JJJ would be the man to ask.


Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.

Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
#4421611 - 05/19/18 05:23 PM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: Hellshade]  
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I think it's probably neither. More likely, it is a hard coded feature left over from cfs3. All versions of OFF have had this behavior.

As a side note, this is why I was disappointed that OBD decided to lock some of the FM into encrypted files. With previous versions of OFF, you could modify settings such as parasitic drag, which if set correctly, slows aircraft dive speeds to more historical levels (remember the Tripe that could dive at speeds close to 300 mph)? Now, dive speed is limited by overspeed damage to the wing, but that unfortunately only seems to affect the human pilot.

#4421614 - 05/19/18 05:43 PM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: Hellshade]  
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There's no such thing as "Hard Coded". It's Software smile


Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.

Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
#4421628 - 05/19/18 07:05 PM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: Hellshade]  
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JJJ65 Online cool
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Carefully reading your comments, guys, let me express my thoughts. The best and the most knowleable person to ask is WindMan. He knows the CFS3 code and he is the man involved in WOFF FM engine coding and implementation.
IMHO, the FM variables missing in individual *.xdp files (that were previously present in *.air files) were averaged for WWI planeset and hard coded (Softwared per AcePilto wink ) in CFS3 source code. Remaining variables are still present and accessible in aircraft respective *.xdp files. This solution resulted in simplified FM management, but, as adverse side effect, it prevents implementation oft some more complicated/different FMs, for example flyable Zeppelins or HandleyPage HP O/400 (as was promised in the past).
Just my 2 cents.

Last edited by JJJ65; 05/21/18 05:37 AM. Reason: typo HP O/400
#4421750 - 05/20/18 05:53 PM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: Hellshade]  
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Quick confirmation that BuckeyeBob's tweaks suggested for the simulation.xml file indeed change AI behavior and seem to minimize death spirals. I've further tested the following values for the individual fighter vs. fighter setting in the main simulation.xml file (that resides in the OBDWW1 folder and controls quick combat missions):

fightThreshold="-3"
withdrawThreshold="-4"

Flying in an Alb. D.II against two Sopwith Pups, with AI skill set to "random," led to a prolonged fight down into the weeds, one Pup augering into the ground eventually while trying to loop too low, and the other barely ungluing itself from me before flying off. This leads me to assume that values of -4/-5 or lower would probably result in a fight to the death situation, even with sensible AI settings checked off in the workshop settings. Settings of -3/-4 still allow for some last-minute break in a dogfight, smaller numbers as BuckeyeBob suggested (-2/-3) give slightly less stubborn AI.

Happy flying,
Von S


// See WOFF on a Mac post for installation instructions regarding WOFF UE/PE/BH&H2 on Macs (https://tinyurl.com/WOFFonMac) // VonS WOFF/WOTR mods. are tweaks of files that are © OBD Software. // FE2 Tweaked FMs & Realism Pack (https://tinyurl.com/FE2fms) // FE2 Representative Vids. (https://tinyurl.com/fe2onamac) //
#4421769 - 05/20/18 07:25 PM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: Hellshade]  
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JJJ65 Online cool
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No offence, guys, but you probaly missed the main point - can you chase the AI in dive without losing your wings?

#4421780 - 05/20/18 08:57 PM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: Hellshade]  
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Depends on how you view the AI's behavior. If you feel it is historical, than by all means we should be looking at ways to follow without losing your own wings. If not historical, we should be looking at ways to reduce or eliminate the AI's behavior. That said, if you can work one of your miracles and find a solution so the AI has to obey the laws of physics just like the human pilots, then that would be fantastic!

#4421783 - 05/20/18 09:20 PM Re: AI aircraft dive limitation mod? [Re: Hellshade]  
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Was able to chase them down easily in the Alb. D.I and D.II - other crates may not fare as well. Although, I didn't notice any of those death-defying dives by the AI using the -3/-4 threshold settings I'm tinkering with currently, or with BuckeyeBob's -2/-3 settings. More thorough testing is of course needed. I look forward to further progress on this topic.

Von S


// See WOFF on a Mac post for installation instructions regarding WOFF UE/PE/BH&H2 on Macs (https://tinyurl.com/WOFFonMac) // VonS WOFF/WOTR mods. are tweaks of files that are © OBD Software. // FE2 Tweaked FMs & Realism Pack (https://tinyurl.com/FE2fms) // FE2 Representative Vids. (https://tinyurl.com/fe2onamac) //
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