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#4412931 - 03/26/18 06:54 PM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by Pugio


I remember it was reviewed by mainstream gaming mags in the day with great reviews.



I wonder if any of those still publish magazines? I cancelled my subscription to PC Gamer back in 2001 or so.


Amazingly PC Gamer looks to still have a physical mag. I loved them as kid but their cover art was too embarrassing to have show up to my house.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4412940 - 03/26/18 07:10 PM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: Clydewinder]  
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Their finest hour had a DC

Mig 29 fulcrum too

F16 combat pilot too

All three on atari st

#4412941 - 03/26/18 07:20 PM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: Clydewinder]  
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I didn't see Red Baron II/3D mentioned. Also B-17 II had a dynamic-ish campaign.


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#4412943 - 03/26/18 07:28 PM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: Clydewinder]  
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Also...the Silent Hunter III & 4 had pretty good dynamic campaigns. The op didn't specify flight sims only.


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#4412963 - 03/26/18 08:26 PM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: Clydewinder]  
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IL2/FB/1946 has a dynamic campaign with Boelckes Westfront Campaign.
Probably others with the sim also.


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#4413031 - 03/27/18 03:26 AM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: rollnloop.]  
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Originally Posted by rollnloop.
Their finest hour had a DC

Mig 29 fulcrum too

F16 combat pilot too

All three on atari st


Digital Integration F-16 Combat Pilot, the first flight sim with a dynamic campaign. The pitch black night missions, the AAA flak, the radio chatter, the user interface, the mission planning tool, the weapon selection screen, the variable weather (including a weather room for pre-flight), the runway damage, the managing/assigning of missions to squadron members, the takeoff and landings, the simulated damage (heck, I even did a belly landing (landing gear damage), and when the plane came to a stop it rolled slightly 'til a wing touched the ground!)... the list goes on... and this was back in 1987/88.Personally, I think this game has never been equaled in terms of a DC... not even Falcon 4.0.


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#4413159 - 03/27/18 05:04 PM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: Clydewinder]  
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The Rowan sims Reach for the Skies (Battle of Britain), Operation Overlord (air campaign over Normandy leading up to Overlord) and Navy Strike (near future US naval aviation in 3 different areas of the world) all had dynamic campaigns. Other flight sims with dynamic campaigns included KA-50 Werewolf (counter piracy operations in the Indonesian achipelago), AV8-B Harrier Assault (fictitious USMC operation in East Timor), and ATAC (F-22s and AH-64s in a near future anti-narco operation in Colombia). Did Combat Flight Simulator 3 have one? I seem to recall that it did.

Non-flight sims with dynamic campaigns included Great Naval Battles: North Atlantic 1939-1943 (the Battle of the Atlantic), Task Force 1942 (surface naval action off Guadalcanal, 1942), Steel Armor: Blaze of War (Tank sim with extensive player input into operational planning), as well as a fair number of submarine sims from Sub Battle Simulator (WW2 subs in both the Atlantic and Pacific, in glorious CGA graphics) onwards.

#4413215 - 03/28/18 01:27 AM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: Clydewinder]  
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RB3D did not have dynamic campaign, as one couldn't win WWI for the Germans while piloting his Fokker.

Read that again and tell me why "dynamic campaigns" are even remotely realistic.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

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#4413223 - 03/28/18 03:48 AM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: Dart]  
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Originally Posted by Dart
RB3D did not have dynamic campaign, as one couldn't win WWI for the Germans while piloting his Fokker.

Read that again and tell me why "dynamic campaigns" are even remotely realistic.


As you pointed out in an earlier post one pilot isn't likely to change the outcome of a war. A dynamic campaign in a historical war simulation might cause a particular battle to go opposite from how it went in real life, but still not change the overall outcome of the war.

But on the other hand wouldn't you like to have a sim where it is possible for the Japanese to launch a third strike on Pearl Harbor and take out the submarine base and oil storage, and then win at Coral Sea (strategically, not just tactically), at Midway and at Guadalcanal? That would be interesting.

Now in a purely fictional flight sim like Falcon 4.0 a dynamic campaign is essential,IMO, to creating a realistic environment. I want that bridge I take out to stay taken out for a realistic length of time, I want the runway to stay closed and I want the MiG's that were shot down on day 2 not to show up again on day 3.


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#4413225 - 03/28/18 03:51 AM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: Clydewinder]  
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I want that bridge I take out to stay taken out for a realistic length of time, I want the runway to stay closed and I want the [aircraft] that were shot down on day 2 not to show up again on day 3.


Sounds like the prayer of every German officer in WWII after 1941. Didn't work out for them that way, though.


I think it should be a requirement that every flight sim has in big letters on one of the splash pages that NO WAR WAS EVER WON BY AIR POWER. NOT A SINGLE ONE.



Last edited by Dart; 03/28/18 03:54 AM.

The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
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#4413232 - 03/28/18 05:13 AM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: Clydewinder]  
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It is equally true that no modern war has been won without air power as well.

And there's also the fact that Falcon 4.0 also modeled ground combat in it's dynamic campaign. It all has to work together.


“Together, let us take up the challenge to reawaken America's religious and moral heart, recognizing that a deep and abiding faith in God is the rock upon which this great Nation was founded.” - Ronald Reagan, May 4, 1982
#4413247 - 03/28/18 10:36 AM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4


And there's also the fact that Falcon 4.0 also modeled ground combat in it's dynamic campaign. It all has to work together.


Yup. I absolutely loved seeing the ground forces duke it out as I flew overhead in my F-16 Block 40. Or was it 50? smile


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#4413250 - 03/28/18 10:47 AM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: Dart]  
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Originally Posted by Dart


I think it should be a requirement that every flight sim has in big letters on one of the splash pages that NO WAR WAS EVER WON BY AIR POWER. NOT A SINGLE ONE.




Yet...



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#4413252 - 03/28/18 10:54 AM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by F4UDash4


And there's also the fact that Falcon 4.0 also modeled ground combat in it's dynamic campaign. It all has to work together.


Yup. I absolutely loved seeing the ground forces duke it out as I flew overhead in my F-16 Block 40. Or was it 50? smile

Don't go for the new! stay in the 40 - much better HUD if nothing else smile
It's really immersive when getting close to the frontline and you see flashes on the ground and things happen, love it.
And as DBond and I reflected once flying coop, just the "welcome back" gives you a fuzzy feeling when calling tower 30 miles out after a intense mission.
Love it.
These things can't be replaced by pretty graphics, not even close.
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Last edited by theOden; 03/28/18 10:54 AM.
#4413300 - 03/28/18 02:54 PM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by Dart
RB3D did not have dynamic campaign, as one couldn't win WWI for the Germans while piloting his Fokker.

Read that again and tell me why "dynamic campaigns" are even remotely realistic.


As you pointed out in an earlier post one pilot isn't likely to change the outcome of a war. A dynamic campaign in a historical war simulation might cause a particular battle to go opposite from how it went in real life, but still not change the overall outcome of the war.

But on the other hand wouldn't you like to have a sim where it is possible for the Japanese to launch a third strike on Pearl Harbor and take out the submarine base and oil storage, and then win at Coral Sea (strategically, not just tactically), at Midway and at Guadalcanal? That would be interesting.

Now in a purely fictional flight sim like Falcon 4.0 a dynamic campaign is essential,IMO, to creating a realistic environment. I want that bridge I take out to stay taken out for a realistic length of time, I want the runway to stay closed and I want the MiG's that were shot down on day 2 not to show up again on day 3.


This is why I loved Aces of the Pacific, and the 1946 expansion.


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#4413303 - 03/28/18 03:07 PM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: theOden]  
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Originally Posted by theOden

And as DBond and I reflected once flying coop, just the "welcome back" gives you a fuzzy feeling when calling tower 30 miles out after a intense mission.
Love it.



thumbsup


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#4413312 - 03/28/18 04:28 PM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: Dart]  
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Originally Posted by Dart
RB3D did not have dynamic campaign, as one couldn't win WWI for the Germans while piloting his Fokker.

Read that again and tell me why "dynamic campaigns" are even remotely realistic.


I guess it's about terminology.

Red Baron 3D had what I would call a "Dynamic Career" system. Medals, promotions, plane upgrades, injury, capture, squad transfers...etc. The battlefield was alive with different missions assigned and AI flights carrying out their "dynamically" assigned missions. If I could have a WWII...or better yet...a Korean War sim that had this kind of career system, I would be happy.


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#4413377 - 03/28/18 10:54 PM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: Clydewinder]  
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Janes Apache Longbow 2 deserves mention here.


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#4413395 - 03/29/18 02:12 AM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: Pugio]  
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Originally Posted by Pugio
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by Pugio


I remember it was reviewed by mainstream gaming mags in the day with great reviews.



I wonder if any of those still publish magazines? I cancelled my subscription to PC Gamer back in 2001 or so.


Amazingly PC Gamer looks to still have a physical mag. I loved them as kid but their cover art was too embarrassing to have show up to my house.



I think the people that used to do the covers for PC Gamer now work designing NVidia GPU boxes


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#4413420 - 03/29/18 07:16 AM Re: Which sims actually had/have dynamic campaigns? [Re: Dart]  
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Originally Posted by Dart
RB3D did not have dynamic campaign, as one couldn't win WWI for the Germans while piloting his Fokker.

Read that again and tell me why "dynamic campaigns" are even remotely realistic.


I don't think anyone is claiming that the player should be able to singlehandedly turn the tide of the war, Rambo style. A single pilot can actually have a pretty outsized impact on things, though. Imagine if that SBD pilot who scored the fatal blow on a Japanese flat top at Midway had missed instead. Or if the flight leader of the dive bomber squadron made a navigation error and the entire flight missed the Japanese fleet. Something like that could very well change a lot about the course of a war.

I think people are yearning for the immersion a dynamic campaign provides. Something that masks the artificialities of a game and instead allows you to forget you're playing one, and maybe even experience a little of what it might be like to really be in that situation. I know that's what I wish I could find in a flight sim. There have been few to measure up to that standard in recent times.


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in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918
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