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#4412774 - 03/25/18 10:13 PM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
How about a third choice:

Hardcore flight complexity like Falcon 4.0 with a dynamic campaign like Falcon's or EECH.



Because I wanted a "us" vs "them" comparison.

"Us" being the desire for a dynamic campaign (even if it's in a less than hardcore study sim) and "them" being a hardcore study / switchology sim that exists in a dead, lifeless, dare I say "boring" world.

It seems that (given the lack of dynamic campaigns in new sims) the sim makers have assumed that everyone's priority is pretty jets with lots of switches to flip instead of all the other things people (like you Blastman) stated they wanted over in the "hot garbage" thread.


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#4412775 - 03/25/18 10:13 PM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: F4UDash4]  
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That seems to be what everyone wants. The poll was to see which aspect people prioritized or wanted the most, I think.


- Ice
#4412778 - 03/25/18 10:30 PM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
The only conclusion I am drawing is that given the choices presented the lite* sim with a dynamic campaign wins. 83% to 17% at present


*and don't think of "lite" as arcade. Thirdwire is not arcade and it was only an example, I could just as easily have said Flaming Cliffs, which while a bit "harder" than Thirdwire is still considered (by most I imagine) "lite"


Ok. My misunderstanding then.


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#4412780 - 03/25/18 11:01 PM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice
That seems to be what everyone wants. The poll was to see which aspect people prioritized or wanted the most, I think.


BINGO


“Together, let us take up the challenge to reawaken America's religious and moral heart, recognizing that a deep and abiding faith in God is the rock upon which this great Nation was founded.” - Ronald Reagan, May 4, 1982
#4412786 - 03/26/18 01:14 AM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Sticking with Falcon4.0/BMS and EECH. No reason to switch to something of lesser quality.

#4412789 - 03/26/18 01:36 AM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
[quote=Mr_Blastman]
It seems that (given the lack of dynamic campaigns in new sims) the sim makers have assumed that everyone's priority is pretty jets with lots of switches to flip instead of all the other things people (like you Blastman) stated they wanted over in the "hot garbage" thread.


The 2nd option is ahead by far, but the obvious issue is, SimHQ being a small sample and IMO biased in this regard.

Voted lite with DC myself ofc. Otherwise I wouldn't hang around SimHQ!

#4412795 - 03/26/18 04:13 AM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: Schwalbe]  
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Originally Posted by Schwalbe
The 2nd option is ahead by far, but the obvious issue is, simhq being a small sample and IMO biased in this regard.


True.


“Together, let us take up the challenge to reawaken America's religious and moral heart, recognizing that a deep and abiding faith in God is the rock upon which this great Nation was founded.” - Ronald Reagan, May 4, 1982
#4412797 - 03/26/18 05:36 AM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Well, I'd rather have the feel of flight, the beauty, the "rightness" of Rise of Flight over the great-for-its-time Red Baron 3D, which is often pointed to as having a great campaign - but that's nostalgia talking most of the time. It was well scripted with some random triggers plugged in at certain places on the map that became completely predictable.

Red Baron 3D had a weaker campaign system than the original. But that was canned, too. And after about the third time I saw a cut scene I was hitting the skip button.

Oh, I'm at the point in the campaign where they're going to invite me to a squadron....next mission...yep, there it is. Let's overfly that aerodrome. Wow, that is really neat - a siren and two scouts scrambling. Again.

I can't recall a single mission from the campaigns of the Golden Age of Flight Sims. Stealth Fighter? Cool, but no one mission standing out. Aces of The Pacific/Aces Over Europe? I don't remember anything about their campaigns. Hind did have a couple, though, where one dropped off the troops. Chuck Yeager's Air Combat? Did that even have a campaign?

The campaign in RoF is "gooder enough" for me. Is it somewhat repetitive? Yep. Can it be boring? Yep. Can one get total milk runs where the enemy is serving itself up? Yep. Can one find the things stacked up to where one can't accomplish the mission? Yep. Feel like you're doing all of this stuff and it just doesn't seem to matter in the least on how the actual war is progressing? Absolutely.

That's actually really realistic.

Know what's not realistic?

A single pilot flying a set of sorties that changes the course of an entire war. There are maybe 5 or 6 individual missions flown by pilots that actually impacted the course of a war - one was a navigation error (German bomber crew letting loose on London) and two of them carried nukes at the tail end of WWII.

It's also completely unrealistic for a flight leader to choose and manage his flight members. You get what you get. Gotta beef? Take it to the Squadron Commander via the XO, and good luck with that.

Promotions and awards are terribly inflated in flight simulations, in the main.

Last edited by Dart; 03/26/18 05:39 AM.

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#4412803 - 03/26/18 08:02 AM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: Dart]  
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Originally Posted by Dart
Know what's not realistic?
A single pilot flying a set of sorties that changes the course of an entire war. There are maybe 5 or 6 individual missions flown by pilots that actually impacted the course of a war - one was a navigation error (German bomber crew letting loose on London) and two of them carried nukes at the tail end of WWII.
It's also completely unrealistic for a flight leader to choose and manage his flight members. You get what you get. Gotta beef? Take it to the Squadron Commander via the XO, and good luck with that.


So is putting an untrained individual who probably spent the last 30 minutes skimming over the manual in charge of a flight or making that indvidual plan the flight route and weapons ordnance. smile

We have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise we'd be flying trainers first and then moving up and we'd be showing up to flights 2 hours early.


- Ice
#4412818 - 03/26/18 11:02 AM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by Schwalbe
The 2nd option is ahead by far, but the obvious issue is, simhq being a small sample and IMO biased in this regard.


True.




Excellent point Schwalbe. I think sometimes we at SimHQ forget just how much of a niche group we are and how we are NOT representative of the mainstream population when it comes to many things.


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#4412824 - 03/26/18 12:03 PM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by Schwalbe
The 2nd option is ahead by far, but the obvious issue is, simhq being a small sample and IMO biased in this regard.


True.




Excellent point Schwalbe. I think sometimes we at SimHQ forget just how much of a niche group we are and how we are NOT representative of the mainstream population when it comes to many things.



But my question was directed at the niche group, not the general public wink

I think Schwalbe was saying that we at SimHQ are a small representative sample of the niche group. If this question was posed to other flight sim forums, still part of the niche, then the answer might be different.


“Together, let us take up the challenge to reawaken America's religious and moral heart, recognizing that a deep and abiding faith in God is the rock upon which this great Nation was founded.” - Ronald Reagan, May 4, 1982
#4412825 - 03/26/18 12:12 PM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Ok that make sense. Thanks for clearing that up F4U!


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4412828 - 03/26/18 12:39 PM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Ok that make sense. Thanks for clearing that up F4U!



Well, I hope I was interpreting Schwalbe right wink


But, let's consider the general public for a minute. How do we draw more new people into our niche?

Would they be more attracted to a sim that is easy to get started in or something hardcore? I think the answer to that is obvious. So not only does a "less than hardcore sim" (lite sim has a bad connotation... what is a better term? something that doesn't suggest "arcade"?) with a dynamic campaign (or at least a well written scripted campaign that has that "feel" we all miss) better fit what we present niche members want it also could help grow the niche.


“Together, let us take up the challenge to reawaken America's religious and moral heart, recognizing that a deep and abiding faith in God is the rock upon which this great Nation was founded.” - Ronald Reagan, May 4, 1982
#4412829 - 03/26/18 12:44 PM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4



But, let's consider the general public for a minute. How do we draw more new people into our niche?
.



My honest answer to that is to make lite arcade-type flying games for the tablet and smartphone. I think those might sell pretty decently with the general public.

Playing any kind of flight sim regardless of how "Lite" it is on the PC will never attract a mainstream audience in my opinion.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 03/26/18 12:44 PM.

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#4412831 - 03/26/18 12:53 PM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: F4UDash4]  
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No it will never be mainstream, but it could grow and it could also die out. My interest is that we see it grow some or at least not die out.


“Together, let us take up the challenge to reawaken America's religious and moral heart, recognizing that a deep and abiding faith in God is the rock upon which this great Nation was founded.” - Ronald Reagan, May 4, 1982
#4412832 - 03/26/18 12:58 PM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I voted "Lite".

From where I am now, by far I'd prefer a title that is built to provide well designed gameplay, straight out of the box.


WARNING: This post contains opinions produced in a facility which also occasionally processes fact products.
#4412833 - 03/26/18 01:06 PM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I’m waiting for a switchology sim in which the flight surgeon randomly fails you on a post-ejection flight physical and you become the squadron ops officer, life support systems officer, maintenance officer, etc, and have to do paperwork while your former fellow pilots are out flying. Pushing buttons and flipping switches can be a good thing but can also be taken too far. Why not go all out and have your crew chief hand you all the “remove before flight” safety pins so you can count them and know he didn’t forget to arm your ejection seat?


Phil

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#4412834 - 03/26/18 01:07 PM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: NH2112]  
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Originally Posted by NH2112
I’m waiting for a switchology sim in which the flight surgeon randomly fails you on a post-ejection flight physical and you become the squadron ops officer, life support systems officer, maintenance officer, etc, and have to do paperwork while your former fellow pilots are out flying. Pushing buttons and flipping switches can be a good thing but can also be taken too far. Why not go all out and have your crew chief hand you all the “remove before flight” safety pins so you can count them and know he didn’t forget to arm your ejection seat?




Don't give anyone any ideas! If this happens now I'm blaming YOU! biggrin


“Together, let us take up the challenge to reawaken America's religious and moral heart, recognizing that a deep and abiding faith in God is the rock upon which this great Nation was founded.” - Ronald Reagan, May 4, 1982
#4412838 - 03/26/18 01:21 PM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I've been an avid hardcore PC flight simmer since 1989 but even I think that some online squadrons/clans go a bit overboard with the realism aspect. I've known of some groups where they go through the complete 30+ point pre-flight check, then fly an hour or more to the target area and then fly an hour or more to get back to base to land. That's too much for me!


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4412843 - 03/26/18 01:57 PM Re: Combat Flight Sim Preference Poll [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
I've been an avid hardcore PC flight simmer since 1989 but even I think that some online squadrons/clans go a bit overboard with the realism aspect. I've known of some groups where they go through the complete 30+ point pre-flight check, then fly an hour or more to the target area and then fly an hour or more to get back to base to land. That's too much for me!

Ah... I used to enjoy that!

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