My plan is to start a thread on every ship in Elite

Actually, I hope it isn't down to me. I'd love to read about the other ships you guys are flying, your opinions and builds. How you use it, how effective it is under various configurations. Otherwise, eventually, you might see a Keelback thread from me



So last night I was at the CG and had the FDL and the Courier there. Flew them both and had a blast. I also whistled for the Vulture, as I didn't want it to feel left out. I hadn't flown it in a while.

The Vulture took 22 minutes to ferry over, and cost about 200k for the convenience. The CG station, Lyakhov Dock, is a good one, with a great selection of ships and modules and excellent for outfitting, so I had a look at my current Vulture build. I had been gimping it because I wasn't taking advantage of module priority, wasn't pushing it's limits due to power constraints, and wanted to have another look at it to see how it could be improved.

Frankly, it was a bit of a mess. It's such an amazingly agile ship in Elite that I had built a bad one and still loved flying it. I had put way too much HRP on it (1300 integrity!), had 10 jump range due to a sub-optimal FSD and all that armor, and also had a D rated scanner to save the power. Shields were 435mj, with a 5A and one booster. Even this build smokes everything in a RES. But clearly I could do better.

I began by shedding most of the HRP. I cut the integrity by 2/3 to about 480. If the shields never go down, all of that HRP is just mass, and doesn't help at all. I swapped the 5A shield generator for a 5C Bi-Weave and two boosters. It's now 444mj, so a very small increase in strength. But it's a Bi-Weave, so it uses less power and regenerates much faster.

I changed the A rated Life Support to D to save power and weight. Frankly, I only fly this ship in RES and CZs, so always fairly close to a station and if I can't get back in 7 1/2 minutes well too bad for me. That's what insurance is for.

With the reduction in power draw through these changes, I swapped the FSD for a 4A and jump range is now 16, which I can live with, same as the Courier and better than the FDL. I swapped the 3E gimballed pulse laser for a second Multi-Cannon. Utilities are two 0A boosters, a point defense and a chaff launcher.

The end result is over the power limit and module priority takes care of that. But it is much lighter and jumps farther. Here is current build (19m credits/ 1 million re-buy)

Vulture Build

The thing that jumps out at me is the current mass is 42% of the optimal mass for the thrusters. No wonder it flies like it does. It's actually under the minimal mass. What does that mean? I feel like my optional internals are still a mess. I have undersized HRP and MRP in there just in case. Undersized because I probably won't need them and wanted to save weight from the larger ones. Still, it feels I am not making the best use of the optionals. How are you guys running yours? The FDL is my Interdictor ship, so not looking to put one in the Vulture. I've never used a SCB, don't think I need one. I've not put armor on any ship before that I can recall either. Maybe back on the Eagle or Viper or Cobra I did.

I just had a look through this thread and I feel my build stacks up well with what others are using. Most of them are heavier, slower and have more hull integrity. My build is lighter, faster and has a bit more shielding than many of these. One of those Vultures is 53m! Armor is expensive.

Why does shedding all of this weight not affect it's speed? Jump range went up, but speed didn't change at all.

Good grief this thing can fly! After the Courier, FDL and Chieftain -- all very capable, well-handling combat ships -- I was amazed. Nothing flies like a Vulture. I had said in my Chieftain review that at full speed the Vulture is sort of a pig. That it only shines in the blue. Hogwash! Maybe compared to it's own in-the-blue performance it does, but compared to everything else? Nothing I've flown anyway compares. It's only true downside is top speed. I'm glad I didn't sell it. For pure combat flying in a RES, you can't beat the Vulture. Having had a chance to fly these other fighters was good, because it gave me fresh comparisons, and showed me exactly how amazing the Vulture is. I guess I had been taking it for granted, and had it bogged down with too much weight.

Note that you're still usig the old, old version of Coriolis, so some of those numbers may very well be wrong.
https://eddp.co/u/TtkUoP1a

Fixed your module priorities too.

Unfortunately, I don't pew-pew as much and I don't think many people are interested in a build full of cargo holds or collector limpets

Hmm, I check for that now. Anyway, figures are the same.



Au contraire mon frere. I would be interested.

I keep tweaking the Vulture, this one named Wasp. I thought I would benefit from increased range of a better sensor suite, so upgraded from 4C to 4A. I needed to drop the class of one of my shield boosters to accommodate it since I'm right at the power limit. Since I fly it exclusively in RES, I felt the ability to more quickly sort and target the juiciest bounties would prove a nice advantage, and it is. Not sure if it's worth the shield reduction, but it's fun to play around with.

I've also waffled on the weapons. I tried dual gimballed multi-cannons and it shreds. But in a one v one against a maneuverable, high-shield adversary, it's difficult to collapse his shields with only kinetic. I tried dual gimballed pulse lasers, but that's too much distributor draw and either I need to control my firing more, or add pips. So I'm back to one pulse and one MC, just where I started.

With your original fit, putting both MCs to PRI 2 and the Cargo Hatch and Fuel Scoop to PRI 3 was fine, only the Cargo Hatch and Fuel Scoop would shut down once weapons were deployed. Upgrading to 4A sensors would put that delecate balance out of whack, raising your power requirements from 105.5% to 109.9%

For the low, low price of 1 Sulphur (maybe 2 Sulphur, 3 if the RNG gods hate you), you can get Grade 1 Overcharged and apply it to your Power Plant and you will get 98.1% total power requirement. You can deploy hardpoints without shutting down anything. You can upgrade to 3C gimballed Beam Lasers (117.9%) but with the modded PP, bring that down to 105.3%, and following the power priority scheme of weapons on PRI 2 and Cargo Hatch and Fuel Scoop on PRI 3, you'll be able to deploy weapons (99.6%).

Be careful going down this road though. I spent most of the last 2 days of gameplay unlocking Hera Tani for access to Grade 5 Power Plant mods and Grade 3 Power Distributor mods.

No worries there!

I appreciate your reply, as always. I guess you will not be documenting your experience after all? No worries, I have to accept I am alone in the compulsion to share everything I do with folks who probably weren't wondering.

I will engineer, eventually, as you know. But isn't it more fun to have to choose between a good sensor and better shields? For now it is, I'd reckon. But that day is coming!

My Original Vulture weapon load out was 2 gimbaled pulse lasers. Pulse allowed me to maintain firing longer (3 pips WEP) and do more damage than if I was running the dual Beam laser. Power is the problem. Engineering is the answer.

Wingy

I can, if you want, but a bit busy with other things. Here's a new tidbit --- I'm down to 2M credits in the bank after losing the Cutter to a mailslot mishap that never should've happened.


I prefer not to choose Why limit myself when I don't have to? Will you fly with a 4B power plant when you can well afford a 4A power plant and your local station is selling one?

Well, surely I would have found it interesting and useful. But it only matters if you wanted to do it.

It's one thing to know that a G5 drive costs this or that amount of flux capacitors. But it's much more enlightening to read how many places were visited, how each engineer was unlocked, how many jumps and light years, what the credit cost was, the trial and triumph of it all. That's what I was hoping for, but I had no expectation, and you no obligation. Just would have found it interesting reading, especially from someone experiencing it all for the first time.

Thanks Wingnuts. For a while, I thought that SYS pips affected the recovery rate for depleted or collapsed shields*. But it also affects the strength of the shield, is this right? So I've been cutting back on my pip management in combat . I try to have a build that works well on default pippage to avoid weakening my shields in order to get more sustained fire from a overburdened power distributor. Sometimes it's necessary, like when being pummeled, but in the main I've been off the pip!

* More SYS pips actually increases the capacitor recharge, not the shields, correct? But indirectly, filling the capacitor more quickly restores shields faster because the capacitor won't drain so easily?

More WEP pips doesn't increase damage, just power available to the weapons?

ENG pips increases thruster power, so the ship is both faster and more agile?

We should have a pip thread.

Wanting to do it and being able to actually do it are two different matters

One thing I'm thinking of as well is that talking about the Cutter all the time might be useless to people as it's an end-game ship and with the rank wall, it's even more out of reach.


I can do that, and definitely more to share than just trading.

More pips to shields actually BOOSTS your shields, makes them tougher. A 5C bi-weave has these stats with 2 pips (balanced)
Raw - ABS - KIN -THM -EXP
317 - 475 - 792 - 396 - 950

4 pips
Raw - ABS - KIN -THM -EXP
317 - 792 - 1321 - 660 - 1585


5A thrusters with 2 pips
SPD - BST - FRQ - PIT - ROL - YAW
232 - 394 - 20s - 4.0 - 1.4 - 9.1

4pips
SPD - BST - FRQ - PIT - ROL - YAW
244 - 394 - 9.4s - 3.7 - 1.4 - 9.1


So with engines, it does not make you faster per se, but it allows you to boost more often. It doesn't improve handling much either outside of pitch authority, but that's sometimes where it's all at

Pip management is critical when in combat. With most all my builds I begin the fight with 2/SYS, 1/ENG and 3/WEP. As the fight progresses I'll move to 3/SYS or even 4/SYS depending on shield health. If the target is getting down on hull I'll go to 2/SYS and 4/WEP to finish the event. Then, reboot the ship to get back 50% of my shields. Never, never, never just leave pips! You need to manage them consistently through the conflict.

Here is a thread I read this morning;
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/418935-Pips-shields-and-engeneers

And this was buried in it. Should still be relevant to current release;
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/336123-How-Pips-alter-shield-effectiveness

Good questions DBond

Wingy

Good info from you and Ice. But surely "Pip management is critical when in combat." is build-dependent? For example, the only reason you'd need to add WEP pips is if your sustained firing is draining the capacitor and causing some black-out where the weapons stop functioning until power is restored. Since WEP pips do not add damage, then the only reason to increase it is to recover it (or prevent the black-out), correct? If you are rocking a build that can fire at 2 pips all day, why would you increase WEP pips?

By increasing WEP pips you are by definition borrowing that power from SYS or ENG or both. So Increasing WEP pips is dropping your shield strength, potentially. Or your speed, and maneuverability, or both. No free lunch.

In a one-adversary engagement, you can get away with this. But if you are in a CZ, or have a wing all shooting at you, you need weapons functioning, speed and maneuverability and high shield strength. By needing to increase WEP pips to finish off your target (because your weapons stopped working) you must choose to sacrifice either maneuverability or shields or both. So active pip management under fire is a pick your poison sort of proposition, no?

I would describe my current in-combat pip-management as reactionary. If my shields are in danger of collapsing, or if I need some speed to catch a target or pull away I will add the appropriate pips. Otherwise I've been trying to maintain that shield/speed/shoot equilibrium.

Back when I was playing with Voice Attack, I had multiple profiles that I could switch on-the-fly.

Why keep 4 pips on WEP if it's full? Why keep pips on SYS if the enemy isn't shooting at you? Why have pips on ENG if you're on a head-on with the enemy? I miss my VA profiles, I need to do a lot of finger dancing now to manage pips. All pips on WEP when head-on, all pips on ENG after that to help me maneuver. I usually concentrate on dealing damage so I don't mind SYS very much, but I will put pips on SYS and ENG if I am running away. This is just because I'm too lazy to fine-tune the pips. My VA profiles was easier to fine-tune; I could have two on SYS, three on ENG and one on WEP or any variation and it would be quicker than doing it manually.

Now you could argue that rocking a build that doesn't need pip management is sub-optimal, and that's a whole different kettle of colored horses.

Just realized there's no need for this. I already have a Trading thread where I can write down my boring stuff.
http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4410437/trading#Post4410437

[Well as I see it,

When I choose 4/WEP even when I'm going to loose my shields, I'm willing to take the hull damage to finish the target off. Most all my builds have great shields coupled with high hull resistances. Yea I know engineering again! Python can hull tank or shield tank and I think has the best weapon lay out I've used so far. I use 4 MC on top and 1 Beam under. Here I only need 2 pips to WEP to keep all firing. I enjoy the zipyness of the Chieftain though.

I have Shield Cell Banks and I always, always have Heat Sinks so meh. Pew-pew and maneuverability is my game for now, then just fire off a SCB and a Heat Sink as needed. I'm debating whether to have another Heat Sink to double up on my available HS.... kinda stupid how it only brings 4 heat sink canisters.

It's all good and I think shows how interpretive the game play can be. For me, I'm not willing to accept any hull damage. Like never. I take it as a personal affront if my hull is damaged, not through my own stupidity mind (that's to be expected. High-G planet I'm looking at you). But I hate taking hull damage through enemy action. That's why I sell all my hull tanks and fly nothing but shield tanks

My Vulture is now like a Vulture on steroids, if those steroids were mixed with cocaine, Red Bull, and a nest of angry hornets!

Good lord. Engineering,yeah. This ship was already an amazing dogfighter. But now it's just insane. Cruises over 300, boosts over 500. Insane agility. 600mj BiWeaves, 21 jump, Overcharged power plant, and multi-cannons, with lncendiary and corrosive effects. Wake scanner, kill warrant scanner, all of my exploration scanners. And there is still a ways to go. Just nuts.

OMG!

haha, looking back on this thread to when I was just noob, and that first Vulture I posted, pre-engineering (for me). I was so proud and happy with it, and frankly it's sh!t!

Here's what I was flying in early 2018
Noob Vulture

Compare it to now

Arclight

Much better shields, faster, nearly double the jump, more firepower, like a completely different hull. How times have changed lol.

That first Vulture had 370MJ of thermal shield protection. Goodness gracious. I'm glad I post this stuff so I can look back and see what I didn't know yet

The Vulture is one of the few ships I've never owned. Nice to see it can be such a combat beast, if I ever get into combat.

So many ships right? 38 I think, and of those I've flown 16, so I know what you mean.

The Vulture's a one-trick pony. A whirling dervish of a combat ship, it's like a Spitfire, all turning and knife-fights. It has it's limitations as most ships do. Two large hardpoints seem both a blessing and curse. But if you like your combat up close and personal it's a fine choice. Is it Elite's most agile ship? It might just be. I guess only the Eagle could give it a run in terms of pitch rate, roll and the like. And the Eagle's way more fragile.

Between this and my Courier I have two very different small fighters. One for turning fights, and one for energy fights. A nice combo.

That can be a good or bad thing of course depending on the philosophy/approach of the player in question. I myself prefer to have dedicated single-role ships. For example, I don't have any cargo space or mining equipment on my Anaconda, Python or Fed Corvette because I'd much rather save those module slots for more shields or armor. I have my Type 10 Defender for mining and cargo hauling and if I get attacked I just simply run, drop mines and use chaff and that has worked for me 100% of the time.

That's a sensible approach and I more or less do the same, with specific roles for each ship.

Wingnuts takes it even further. For example he has four or five Krait IIs, all configured for their specific purpose.

I finally got my Imperial Cutter yesterday so right now I'm in the very long but fun process of getting the best possible modules and then of course engineering them. I am trying something new here with the Cutter by adding an 8E cargo rack (256 cap). I envision this as being a very well armed cargo runner.

Congrats on the Cutter. A magnificent vessel

Thanks, aesthetically it is indeed much better than the Fed Corvette.

Heretic!!!



Grats, PM

Personally I like the Imperial aesthetics better. That's the main reason I went Empire, which really only means I set up base in Imperial space. So naturally my ranks have gone a little faster on the Empire side.

But the Corvette is a great looking ship, mean looking, it just looks like danger. The Dropship and FAS maybe not so much and the FGS is sort of in the middle. Aside from appearance, it was the fact that Imperial ships seemed to make better shield tanks that made me lean this way. Of course you can great shields on Fed ships, especially the Vette. Plus only the Empire has fast, nimble ships like the Courier and iEagle which suit my style.

I take up the Empire banner for banter purposes, but really it doesn't matter. But if a superpower war broke out I'd enlist with the Empire. The Courier is such a good ship for me. I love the performance and the cockpit. The glowing blue piping goes well with my HUD colors.

The only Fed ship I'd really be interested in is the Vette, but I don't hunt the required rank so it's just not in the near future. I could buy a Clipper, but I can't really see why. What does one use a Clipper for? And while the Cutter was once a goal, it lost that status when I hit trade elite. I don't do trucking for fun so no real reason to spend all that money and engineering effort. I'd rather split it up between more modest ships, and even then I don't seem to want any new ones which kinda sucks. I had a look at the Mamba, but I don't think I'd like it for combat. It's like a faster FDL that turns like an Anaconda from what I've gathered. It does look cool though.

So all that said, the only 'superpower' ship I have is the Courier. And the iEagle is the only other one I've flown. Oh wait, that's not true, I forget about the Alliance. I owned a Chieftain for a little while.

I had considered building a Dolphin because Saud Kruger, right? I can get really good performance out of it, but it's just a little short on optionals. I wanted to build it for bulk transport, there are a lot of missions that pay well but require 45 economy seats and I cannot get that out of a Dolphin. I thought it would be good to have a second passenger ship so I could run bulk and sightseeing without having to reconfigure. Have a ship for each. It's really what I should do with my Python, which I have mothballed since buying a Krait II. It would make a perfect bulk hauler, good optional slot space in that ship. Hey, that's a good idea....

Re: Fed vs Empire

It’s all just good nature’s banter as you say, D. I stick with the Feds mostly because that’s where I made my home. In the near future I plan on workin on my Imp rank. Don’t really care about getting a Cuttter, but I have “completion-itis” so I’ll grind it out.

I'm pledged to Aisling Duval but I often do missions for the Federation and I have a 100% friendliness rating with both the Empire and the Feds. You can say I sleep around! LOL

I just wish the Alliance had a ship on the same level of power as the Corvette or the Cutter.

The Chieftain's a pretty good ship, and caused a bit of a stir when it came out, but people seemed to forget about it fairly quickly. It has 6 hardpoints which is cool for a ship it's size. I wasn't engineering yet and didn't care for the drift so I sold it and bought a FDL. With high-grade engineering I bet it's a fine one. The other Alliance ships seem like dogs but I've no experience with them. They re very unpopular and seem like they never really had a niche. I'm sure some guys like them. I really like how the Chieftain looks with the four thrusters lighting up. Looks awesome in the dark

After my last post I did indeed bring the Python out of mothball. Using stuff I had in storage I cobbled together an acceptable Python and loaded it with business class cabins and flew a number of bulk transport missions, getting Empire rank moving a bit and taking a lot of G5 mats as rewards. I want the Inara Captain's medal of all things and I'm getting there lol. It takes 5,000 passengers, which is a lot. If there were burning stations I could be going a bit faster on this.

I had the Chieftain for a couple of months early last year. It looked nice but the firepower just wasn't there. It was a huge jump for me when I went up to the Python.

I felt like the Chieftain had a nice hardpoint arrangement, putting out a concentrated cone of fire with a nice convergence. But it's more hull tank than shield tank and like I said, it was a bit of a drifter un-engineered.

I qualify for a Gunship, but not a fire-lighter for me. Recluse has a nice one. So the Cutter and Corvette are the only two left rank-locked for me. I expect them to remain so for a long time

I bought another iEagle yesterday, so my superpower ship count is now two (again)

I said earlier I don't do trucking missions for fun. But there's about zero difference with bulk transport missions. It's more of a roleplay thing.

I’ve had both Chieftain and Chally. Different sides of the same coin. I think both are awesome medium combat ships. Unfortunately, when I got my Krait Mk II they were both outclassed. I’m sure I agree with PM about the Python having more effective firepower than the Alliance vessels. I feel the better agility of them more than compensates for any perceived dearth of dps vs the Python. I found I could keep my fixed beams on target much easier in my Chieftain than in my Python, hence better actual damage output.

Outclassed in which ways?

I mentioned Rec's FGS, because I've seen it up close. But looking on Inara I see that Bo has one too, and engineered to the nines. Every last turn of the wheel to G5. Lots of mats in that one eh?

Got a Coriolis build of that Gunship?

DBond, I think it is because;
* Chieftain weapons 3-1-2
* Challenger weapons 3-3-1
* Krait MKII weapons 0-2-3
* Engineered Krait MKII is faster and will cold boost twice (Cold meaning NO pips in ENG)
* Krait MKII handles better than the Chieftain, Challenger and Python once engineered
* Weapon layout has great convergence on Krait MKII

My Skittle machine has awsome DPS https://s.orbis.zone/6as6


Wingy

D, Wingy’s pretty much nailed it. In my experience, the Krait is superior in every way that matters to the Alliance boats. Mind you, this is just my feeling as I’m not one for theory crafting and number crunching.

Regarding my FGS, I’ll try and post a Coriolis link tonight when I get home from work. I use it strictly for surface strikes. That’s why it’s armed only with 2 small beams and 5 dumbfire racks. It is prolly WAY over engineered for it’s intended use. I just hate the thought of not having all modules at G5, even if I know it’s a waste of mats

Yeah I figured as much, just curious what specific ways you felt it was better. Thanks to you both.

No need to post the FGS, don't go to any trouble. I just happened to notice how finely tuned it was and thought it would be cool to see in Coriolis. Do you use EDMC? I use it to quickly export builds, even though it's on the old version of Coriolis. When I am engineering I make a tweak, then alt-tab and grab the new build out of EDMC to instantly see how it affected the ship. It's a great tool.

Yup, on EDMC. Great tool for that. Actually, one of the guys just told me how to do that with regards to builds and Coriolis.

https://coriolis.io/import?data=H4s...JIbSNV0714xzZD3oaIQQhMo_lO__AUKZpAf8QgAA

Dunno if this link works, short link not workin for me in Coriolis.

Yes, it works, thanks. What a beast that ship is. Do you fire all those missiles at the same time? I've never mounted a missile launcher, let alone 90 of them

Yup, for surface base installation assualts. Dumb fires have a nice splash radius, so “close enuff” is usually sufficient to waste a ground turret or missile launcher. The 2 fixed beams are for the small gun emplacements and skimmers. The weapons load out is totally niche for those missions. I don’t do many, but every once in a while I get the itch. Gonna swap out the SG for a Prismatic at some point.

That must make a hell of a rumble. Never did a mission like that myself.

CMDR Exigeous did a YouTube of those kinds of missions. That’s my inspiration.