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#4395152 - 12/16/17 06:08 PM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: Trelawney]  
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I am glad I could help, mate. Nice we have new meat to grinder wink .

Last edited by JJJ65; 12/16/17 06:09 PM.
#4395172 - 12/16/17 07:59 PM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: Trelawney]  
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Trelawney Offline
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Well, that went quicker than expected. 17.5.2 is the most current driver that works for me. thumbsup

#4399995 - 01/14/18 11:24 PM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: Trelawney]  
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I want to report that the same happened to me today!

Last Friday I changed my video card which was an AMD 7850 to an AMD R9 290. With this I had to install new AMD drivers (the latest 17.12.2) and today I decided to try my new video card (AMD R9 290) with WOFF UE and to my shock when I started a mission (when "jumping" to 3D) the screen was all black but the game was apparently running "ok" - So example if I reduce my planes throttle I could perfectly hear it as well as all other game sounds! Before starting a mission or resuming in the menus, everything was ok.
And as such and when looking for a solution for this problem, I found this thread and by following what Trelawney found I decided to uninstall the 17.12.2 and install the 17.5.2 AMD drivers and "voila" - it worked!

I hope that in future drivers this situation can be solved, in the meanwhile I'll keep the 17.5.2 driver installed.

#4405432 - 02/16/18 12:20 PM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: Trelawney]  
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Trelawney Offline
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Good news, everyone!
Yesterday, I finally bit the bullet and upgraded to Windows 10. In the process, I also installed the latest beta drivers (18.2.2) and now WOFF runs like a charm!
I have no idea which one of the two did the trick, but if you are still using Win 7, you might want to give the beta drivers a try (I checked, the version should be 18.2.2 for your card, too).
Finally, some quality time over the trenches awaits.

P.S.: Kudos for the tip with the old drivers are due to JJJ65, who made me aware of the solution.

#4405453 - 02/16/18 02:23 PM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: Trelawney]  
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Thx for info, Trelawney, I will try the latest beta drivers as soon as time permit.

#4405798 - 02/18/18 10:42 AM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: Trelawney]  
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JJJ65 Offline
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Installed driver 18.2.2, run WOFF and NO GO for me nope .
Reverted back to old driver.

#4405810 - 02/18/18 11:48 AM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: Trelawney]  
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Stay to the driver that is good, running without troubles, do not fix what is not broken! In my whole RoF/OFF&WoFF career from 2008 on, I never saw any improvements on these games by updating to a new Vdriver. My RoF/OFF/WoFF career contains 2 Nvidia and 2 AMD Vcards, GT7300/HD4890/HD7970/GTX1080. Readings like 25% improvements in Battlefield or Call of duty, while always monitoring in OSD, I never did notice this in a Flysim.

note, forgot something if going to another Vdriver, always do a clean reinstall, Google on how to remove all the leftovers or use an free software like
http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/display-driver-uninstaller-download.html

And I’m not alone, here a copy/paste from Simsforums.com thats will explain more because of his better English writing skils


NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO ALL DRIVERS AND DRIVER SOFTWARE

I am all for making sure a system is properly updated from the motherboard manufacture upon Windows install, but past that unless there is a SPECIFIC ISSUE you are trying to fix in which a update in drivers or driver software will correct, DONT DO IT

I posted this in the past and I am going to repeat it again here..

VIDEO DRIVERS: http://www.simforums.com/forums/drivers-nv-inspector-fsxcfg-complete-guide_topic36586.html

BE AWARE THAT VIDEO DRIVER UPGRADES AND UPDATES ARE NOT ALWAYS GOOD FOR EVERYONE. VIDEO DRIVERS ARE ALWAYS A 'TEST AND SEE' SITUATION AND IF YOU ARE NOT HAVING ANY PROBLEMS AND ARE SATISFIED WITH YOUR INSTALL YOU SHOULD NOT UPGRADE OR CHANGE VIDEO DRIVERS! AND, IF YOU DO MAKE SURE TO USE THE CORRECT DRIVER UPGRADE OUTLINE I POSTED AND LINKED ABOVE AND OUTLINED IN THE BIBLE THREAD TOO.

I USE SINGLE DRIVER RELEASES FOR SOMETIMES A YEAR OR MORE AND DO NOT UPGRADE UNLESS I AM TESTING AND THEN GO BACK TO WHAT I HAD.

IT IS RARE TO FIND A DRIVER THAT INCREASES FSX PERFORMANCE ... BE VERY AWARE OF THAT.

Last edited by dutch; 02/18/18 11:57 AM. Reason: driver removal tool
#4418307 - 04/29/18 02:08 PM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: Trelawney]  
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Hi guys. Just to let you know that after experiencing this exact same problem that Trelawney was experiencing I too can only install up to Crimson 17.5.2 with my RX 480 card on Windows 7 64bit. Luckily I managed to find this thread which saved hours of finding the problem. I've tried updating to all the latest beta drivers etc to no avail. The only solution has been the 17.5.2 drivers.

#4437888 - 09/08/18 11:34 PM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: Trelawney]  
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ricnunes Offline
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Recently I did format and reinstalled Windows 7 64-bit on my PC and of course reinstalled WOFF.

In the process I updated my video card (AMD R9 290) drivers to the latest drivers and I can confirm that this problem persists. I guess I could go back and reinstall the AMD 17.5.2 drivers but this unfortunately is a NO-GO for me. I play modern games such as ArmA 3 which should take advantage of the most recent drivers and this not to mention new and future games that I might purchase (WOFF is not the only game that I play).

So I urge the WOFF devs to solve this problem even because:
- WOFF should work with the latest AMD drivers (video card).
- With this I don't feel comfortable purchasing WOTR since I might get this same problem.

So please, fix this problem.

#4437924 - 09/09/18 08:29 AM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: ricnunes]  
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dutch Offline
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Originally Posted by ricnunes
Recently I did format and reinstalled Windows 7 64-bit on my PC and of course reinstalled WOFF.

In the process I updated my video card (AMD R9 290) drivers to the latest drivers and I can confirm that this problem persists. I guess I could go back and reinstall the AMD 17.5.2 drivers but this unfortunately is a NO-GO for me. I play modern games such as ArmA 3 which should take advantage of the most recent drivers and this not to mention new and future games that I might purchase (WOFF is not the only game that I play).

So I urge the WOFF devs to solve this problem even because:
- WOFF should work with the latest AMD drivers (video card).
- With this I don't feel comfortable purchasing WOTR since I might get this same problem.

So please, fix this problem.

Why not DIY, buy an €40,- 240Gb SSD do the same reinstall, as you did above and you will have an dedicated boot for WoFF and WoTR. You can even close all the not needed internet connection, Windows update, virusscan and firewall software. Resume, now you are allow to optimize everything for max performance specific to WoFF and your last buy WoTR.

I use on my rig two 256Gb SSD one is containing RoF/Woff, the other BoX, Clod, FC and multiplayer RoF. The first one for playing modded RoF/WoFF is not conected to the internet so that allows me to play without any interfere from a Windows update/virusscanner/firewall.
For office, internet or other activities, i still use the old 500Gb HD.


Last edited by dutch; 09/09/18 09:07 AM. Reason: life can be both easy and cheap :-)
#4437949 - 09/09/18 02:55 PM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: dutch]  
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ricnunes Offline
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Originally Posted by dutch

Why not DIY, buy an €40,- 240Gb SSD do the same reinstall, as you did above and you will have an dedicated boot for WoFF and WoTR. You can even close all the not needed internet connection, Windows update, virusscan and firewall software. Resume, now you are allow to optimize everything for max performance specific to WoFF and your last buy WoTR.

I use on my rig two 256Gb SSD one is containing RoF/Woff, the other BoX, Clod, FC and multiplayer RoF. The first one for playing modded RoF/WoFF is not conected to the internet so that allows me to play without any interfere from a Windows update/virusscanner/firewall.
For office, internet or other activities, i still use the old 500Gb HD.



Honestly and the short answer is: I don't want to do that. That's too much hassle for me! I'm certainly not in the mood to purchase a new SSD (even because I recently purchased one) just for one game.
Also and incurring the risk of being misinterpreted here, I seriously believe that this is an issue/bug that the devs must solve even because they decided (and thankfully so) to keep developing combat flight simulations. Imagine that if any game that we wished to purchase we would have to perform that solution of your's - buy a new disk or create an new disk partition and install a different Operating System on it just for each game to work? Honestly and don't get me wrong, this is NO solution...

Bottom line, WOFF worked with 17.5.2 Drivers so it should work with the most recent AMD drivers (even because the game currently supports DirectX9). So and again, this is something that I feel that the devs must work out/solve.


But thanks anyway for your reply.

#4437950 - 09/09/18 03:08 PM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: ricnunes]  
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kksnowbear Online content
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Originally Posted by ricnunes
Honestly and the short answer is: I don't want to do that. That's too much hassle for me! I'm certainly not in the mood to purchase a new SSD (even because I recently purchased one) just for one game.
Also and incurring the risk of being misinterpreted here, I seriously believe that this is an issue/bug that the devs must solve even because they decided (and thankfully so) to keep developing combat flight simulations. Imagine that if any game that we wished to purchase we would have to perform that solution of your's - buy a new disk or create an new disk partition and install a different Operating System on it just for each game to work? Honestly and don't get me wrong, this is NO solution...

Bottom line, WOFF worked with 17.5.2 Drivers so it should work with the most recent AMD drivers (even because the game currently supports DirectX9). So and again, this is something that I feel that the devs must work out/solve.


But thanks anyway for your reply.


+1

The proposed idea might well address the issue, but it's more of a 'work-around' than anything.

No game should require global changes to one's computer in order to run properly, when there is real risk that these global changes will cause problems elsewhere. This applies not only to hardware as described here, but also the global configuration changes that are recommended in this sim's FAQ. (TBH, that's crazy and defeats the entire purpose of having a configuration tool that can be applied to individual programs, as with NVCP and all others I'm aware of).

Is someone honestly expected to build, configure and maintain a PC just for one sim? If that's required, I can imagine many will simply pass.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 09/09/18 03:11 PM.
#4437971 - 09/09/18 04:45 PM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: Trelawney]  
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Panama Red Online content
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So what I hear both of you saying is if you purchased a piece of software that worked on Windows XP, but when you migrated to Windows 7, 8 or 10 and it did not work, that it was the responsibility of the Dev's to make it work on these newer OS's ???

That being said, if the OBD wants to continue selling to newer AMD card users, they might look at what is causing the problem for future sales, but are they required to fix the problem that AMD created when they changed their drivers, NO, that is AMD fault.

I know of no peace of software or hardware that is required to be forward compatible, only backward compatible, just like WOFF and WOTR did work on older AMD drivers when the games were created.


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4437987 - 09/09/18 07:29 PM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: Panama Red]  
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Originally Posted by Panama Red

That being said, if the OBD wants to continue selling to newer AMD card users, they might look at what is causing the problem for future sales, but are they required to fix the problem that AMD created when they changed their drivers, NO, that is AMD fault.


Problems with ocasional games having problems with newer drivers video drivers are not new! They happen both with AMD and Nvidia. However it's up to the devs in collaboration with the video card manufacturer to fix such problems. It always been this way so I'm puzzled with your reply...

Yes, I'm asking the devs to solve this issue. I guess what? I have this right, to do it! Afterall, I purchased this game as well! I wonder whenever you ask a developer to fix a bug in some game that you purchased, if you think with the same rhetoric as displayed on your post. Guess that you're one of those that only thinks that there's a problem when it only affects you... rolleyes



Originally Posted by Panama Red

I know of no peace of software or hardware that is required to be forward compatible, only backward compatible, just like WOFF and WOTR did work on older AMD drivers when the games were created.


You could have a point if WOFF and WOTR where "abandonware" however they are not! Both are still being sold by the devs and WOTR was released just recently so it would be more than normal for the devs (again in conjunction with the video card manufacturer) to try fixing this issue and not otherwise.
Or else I believe that the devs should put on both WOFF and WOTR requirement list the following:
- Incompatible with AMD video cards. Or something along those lines.

Moreover, WOTR was released very recently (this week, right?) so according to your "backwards/forwards compatibility" reasoning it should be compatible with the latest AMD drivers since these were released before WOTR was released, right?

In the end, I'm a WOFF customer so yes, I have the right to report a bug (which is what this really is) and to ask the devs to fix this problem. You have a problem with this?? Guess, that's your problem rolleyes


P.S - following your reasoning, Falcon BMS, EECH, etc... shouldn't also work with AMD video cards with the latest drivers but and yet, they do!

#4437994 - 09/09/18 08:06 PM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: Trelawney]  
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It's not a bug in WOFF because it has worked all this time, it is a bug created by AMD, not OBD. So what you are saying is because it is a AMD bug, you are holding OBD responsible to fix AMD's bug and the next time AMD creates a bug with their drivers with other games, those Dev's are responsible to fix all those games too.

All I's saying is for OBD's bugs they make a very good effort to fix THEIR bugs, but they are not responsible to fix other software developer bugs, those other software developers are responsible for their bugs, not OBD.


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4437996 - 09/09/18 08:21 PM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: Panama Red]  
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ricnunes Offline
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Originally Posted by Panama Red
It's not a bug in WOFF because it has worked all this time, it is a bug created by AMD, not OBD. So what you are saying is because it is a AMD bug, you are holding OBD responsible to fix AMD's bug and the next time AMD creates a bug with their drivers with other games, those Dev's are responsible to fix all those games too.


What I'm saying or what I'm REPORTING HERE is a problem/bug which of course I would like to see solved/fixed. I don't care who started this problem/bug! Again, I just want/wish to see it solved/fixed.


Originally Posted by Panama Red

All I's saying is for OBD's bugs they make a very good effort to fix THEIR bugs, but they are not responsible to fix other software developer bugs, those other software developers are responsible for their bugs, not OBD.


Re-read what I previous posted. Anyway and according to your own login the majority of games would never work whenever a video card manufacturer releases new drivers (which happens quite often) - however the truth/fact is exactly the opposite of your rhetoric....

#4438000 - 09/09/18 08:42 PM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: Trelawney]  
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I know quite a few games that no longer work because of driver or OS's changes. That is why I keep old PC's with their OS's and drivers because the game developers are not responsible to forever keep their games current unless they want to keep selling them.

OBD is only responsible for their product, not AMD product. If you have a problem with AMD's product, you should complain to AMD, not OBD.


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4438006 - 09/09/18 09:24 PM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: Panama Red]  
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Originally Posted by Panama Red
So what I hear both of you saying is if you purchased a piece of software that worked on Windows XP, but when you migrated to Windows 7, 8 or 10 and it did not work, that it was the responsibility of the Dev's to make it work on these newer OS's ???


If that's what you heard me saying, you don't listen very well.

What I said was it's absurd to expect users to make global changes to their systems to make a single game work, when theres real danger it could cause other problems. Some, like yourself, might be willing...but it can't be reasonably expected.

I also said if this is required, I can imagine many will just pass. If you keep old systems around just to play one old game, good for you - but that doesn't mean it should be required, and it doesn't mean you're in the majority.

#4438012 - 09/09/18 10:09 PM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: Trelawney]  
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Per OBD's WOFF UE FAQ concerning newer ATI drivers problems:

ATI / AMD GPU USERS
NOTE: Recently (at the time of writing) it seems the latest ATI drivers have broken WOFF for some users.
Install an older version of the ATI driver as that works for some that have a black screen when flying.
Version 17.5.2 works for Windows 7 64 bit for ATI Radeon RX 470 (8GB) for example.



So it sounds like they have stated what they are going to do or not do concerning this ATI problem at this time.


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4438015 - 09/09/18 10:25 PM Re: Black screen (with sound) after starting a mission. [Re: Trelawney]  
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And which, as i said, will probably lead to some people deciding its not worth it if they have to run old drivers and incur whatever doing so does to other programs.

Also, just because OBD says so doesn't by any means prove it's an AMD problem and not a problem in this sim. Say whatever you want, it simply does not prove any such thing.

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