AMD: Zen 2 Design is Complete, Rolling Out To Customers in Late 2018 – Next-Gen EPYC Rome Family To Skip 12nm in Favor of 7nm Process
AMD 12nm Zen+ For Ryzen First and 7nm Zen 2 For Next-Gen EPYC Processors First
AMD has already stated that their Zen 2 cores (not Zen+) will address all potential Spectre exploits through implementing on-silicon changes. .. AMD’s next-generation server processors .. the EPYC successor will be the first CPU product to feature the 7nm process.
next generation 7nm server chips, .. up to 48 cores and 96 threads in various SKUs. These SKUs will come in 35W and up to 180W TDP
12nm Ryzen still looks good for April. Hopefully, pricing will be similar to current 14nm Ryzen. I'm guessing we'll get roughly 10 percent better performance (measurable but not visible in games).
48 core/96 Thread server CPUs are not far off -- at only 180 watts. Shortly after it happens, 32core/64 thread desktop PC CPUs will probably hit the shelves.
By then, Spectre exploit fixes will be in-hardware (Ryzen hardware is already immune to Meltdown exploit).
After GPUs, CPUs May Become The Next Go-To Hardware For Use in Cryptomining – AMD Ryzen Threadripper CPUs Can Pay For Themselves in Under a Year
“The way to go at this point is to try to explain to end users how they can also get the benefits of mining,” Triolet says, “because if you should get a high-end desktop with a high-end GPU today and you’re not mining, you’re kind of wasting money. If they are just sitting there doing nothing, why not make some nice profit?”
Apparently, AMD high core count CPUs (particularly Threadripper) are nearly as good as GPUs for mining. Its because the best algorithms can be done entirely inside the Threadripper CPU without many memory calls -- due to high L3 Cache memory in the CPU. Memory calls take a lot of time -- the Cache runs very fast.
Bottom line, those Gamers with very high core count CPUs are encouraged to "start mining". They will pay off the cost of their system in roughly 12-18 months (after accounting for electricity costs). The mining can be done during non-gaming time. At least, that is the "theory".
I'm not saying gamers with 8 core and preferabley 16 core CPUs should start mining. But, the article indicates some may want to try. In theory, all one loses is electricity cost (negligible in my town) and CPU wear -- but one may gain a modest amount of "money" and/or some fun trying.
AMD Ryzen With Vega Graphics Reviewer Kits Leak Out! Ryzen 5 2400G And Ryzen 3 2200G
The AMD Ryzen with Vega graphics are set to launch next week and it looks like the first reviewer kits are making their way out to reviewers right now!
at a local best buy .. the RX 550 is going for MORE than the upper tier Ryzen 5 2400G...
I have an RX550 GPU on one of my HTPCs -- but, and FX seriies CPU.
I am very tempted to grab a Ryzen 5 2400G APU at list price (now that GPUs are priced beyond reason) -- and build something for the fun of it .
Based on the raw frequencies and 4core/8thread design, these APUs should make a good entry-level gaming PC or superior HTPC. CPU and GPU combined for only ~ $170. A micro-ATX motherboard is only $45 today. Memory is the higher priced item.
But, as usual, one must wait for the independent tests to know for sure.
EDIT UPDATE: Heck, I took the plunge. GIGABYTE GA-AB350M-Gaming 3 motherboard was $50 after rebate from Amazon. It will work with any Ryzen CPU, so there is a backup plan if I don't find the Ryzen 5 2400G adequate or the price is "mind boggling".
EDIT UPDATE 2: Bought the 8GB, 3.2GHz memory on sale. Nice case only $20 on 60% off sale. Rest of the parts from "leftovers" in my "computer work area". Not the first time I've taken a chance by pre-buying items -- doesn't always work out
Multiple crypto jacking attacks have been reported in recent weeks..
Malware on the utility's server was mining Monero cryptocurrency and it as there for three weeks before anyone noticed. .
The cryptocurrency mining malware was likely downloaded from a malicious advertising site by an operator at the water utility who opened a web browser and clicked on an advertising link that led the mining code being installed on the system.
..top five [crypto-jacking] campaigns generating $1.18 million per year..
So, its "crypto-jacking" now. Its possible that one's PC is already "mining". Merely click on the wrong link -- and, one is unknowingly mining.
Also, at first glance, the Bitcoin bubble seems to have burst (on schedule). However, that only means that investors got burned. The cleverest miners got rich selling to investors at bubble-prices.
The foreseeable future of AMD GPU prices for gamers remains bleak.
NVIDIA Blows Away Q4 FY18 Earnings – Record Breaking EPS of $1.78 On Revenue of $2.91 Billion, Earnings Analyzed
Perhaps another reason for NVIDIA’s success can be attributed to the fact that AMD’s Radeon side was mostly MIA this time around.. Because AMD had been focusing on their Zen efforts..
It goes without saying that the cyrpto-mining craze and the exorbitant pricing helped drive the company into their most profitable quarter yet. This also where we would urge caution, it is clear that a significant portion of their graphics revenue comes from miners who are willing to buy a GTX 1080 Ti at insane price levels.
Still, the company has continued to beat expectations and its more likely that they will continue to do so then not.
Another reason will be AMDs poor performing cards after they promised so much
In all honesty, I never heard AMD over promise -- though many folks have said they did.
I paid attention to the "official" comments and official "selling pitch" out of the mouths of company spokes persons.
How some blog writers have "interpreted" the official statements says something negative about the nominally-professional blog writers. Moreover, the ordinary folks who comment on line (like me) have no way to know. Its why I always say: Wait for actual product release to sales and independent tests.
The AMD public statements and the public pre-release demos indicated a card "competitive" in FPS with GTX1070 and GTX1080 (not 1080Ti) -- and better in "compute" tasks -- for the same or slightly less money.
Competitive means that in a head to head "visual" test, most folks won't see the difference (AMD actually ran a public test like that -- commented in this thread a long time back). If one "measures" FPS, it will be win-some lose-some or be real close. That's about how it turned out.
Unfortunately, AMD was MUCH better at compute, So, the cryptocurrency miners drove prices way up. To a gamer, RX Vega is NOT worth what's being charged today. But, I'm not excited about Nvidia's prices either.
We'll agree to disagree then. .. For a long time now, it appears that AMD have just thrown in the towel with these power hungry cards.
Looking on the "dark side".
The RX Vega, though good, fell short of AMD's plans. I surmise that the "high power draw" aspect was a "last ditch" effort to get the few extra FPS higher power brings. They did that to be "competitive". Nvidia has also done that, in the past.
The concept was that RX Vega would be cheaper than Nvidia. However, HBM memory prices stayed high (not AMD's fault). So, the planned lower pricing did not materialize. Now, all memory costs more than it should because of higher memory demand and relatively low production.
What made things worse, HBM memory was months (if not a year) late versus what the HBM manufacturer promised. So, RX Vega was late. By that time, Nvidia's products had "moved on" from what AMD had expected to compete with.
Because the cards were nearly a year late, their performance on non-optimum drivers was compared with Nvidia products having optimized drivers. Looked worse than it was, at first. Drivers caught up for many cases, but that's not frequently reported.
Yes, I think AMD has "thrown in the towel with these power hungry cards" (to quote someone I'm familiar with). Why try? Everything they produce "sells out fast" at ridiculous prices. Not due to FPS but due to "compute" aspects.
I surmise (a guess) they're betting it all on 7nm Navi. Navi sounds like a good bet -- if its not delayed -- or "too good" at compute (so that cryptocurrency miners keep prices high).
I'd like an RX Vega at the original list prices. But, I personally am resigned to waiting for Navi. Right now, my RX480 plays everything at max or ultra 1440p at FPS that satisfies me. So, I'm in no hurry other than I want to buy something (get my "fix").
So, we agree to a degree (and don't entirely disagree)
According to the shipper, the last of my parts needed to build a Ryzen 5 2400G HTPC arrive tomorrow.
Amazon has them for $170 (list price). Newegg calls them "on sale" only 2 days for only $190 ($20 over list price). Newegg just lost me on that one. UPDATE: Amazon and Newegg are "sold out" now.
By the way, Intel likes to feature its "Boost" clocks. But, CPUs are designed to run high stress applications at "Base Clocks". Make sure to compare Intel Base clocks to AMD Base clocks while comparing prices. The performance per core per clock between Intel and AMD Ryzen is now too close to matter -- except for "bragging rights". By the way, my Ryzen 7 1800X runs 4.0GHz all the time -- Ryzens are unlocked and the silicon and structure is actually designed for overclock (overclock is not built into Intel CPU hardware -- though they unlock some part numbers).
The Ryzen Lineup and list prices:
Last edited by Allen; 02/12/1808:29 PM. Reason: Ryzen 5 2400G Sold Out
I did not read all the reviews, but even with non-optimized drivers the $170 Ryzen 5 2400G in gaming was equivalent to a GT1030 GPU paired with any Intel CPU costing under $200 and some costing much more.
So, $170 for AMD Ryzen 5 2400G APU with a good cooler included in the price -- compares with Intel/Nvidia CPU-GPU systems in the $260 price range.
I did not read them all. I'll have my own system to test in a few days. Anandttech says Ryzen 5 2400G is the way to go for a roughly $500 1080p gaming system. Here's Anandtech's summary:
Marrying Vega and Zen: The AMD Ryzen 2400G Review
iGPU Gaming Performance
Conclusion: Raising the Bar for Integrated Graphics
..when we compare the new Ryzen APUs against Intel's latest graphics solutions, there is a clear winner. For almost all the 1080p benchmarks, the Ryzen APUs are 2-3x better in every metric. We can conclude that Intel has effectively given over this integrated graphics space to AMD at this point, .
When we compare the Ryzen 5 2400G with any CPU paired with the NVIDIA GT 1030, both solutions are within a few percent of each other in all of our 1080p benchmarks.
For the compute benchmarks, Intel is still a clear winner with single threaded tests, with a [slightly] higher IPC and higher turbo frequency.
If we compare the multi-threaded tests, AMD with 4C/8T and Intel 6C/6T seem to battle it out depending if a test can use multi-threading appropriately, but compared to Kaby Lake 4C/4T or 2C/4T offerings, AMD comes out ahead.
As a choice for gamers on a budget, those building systems in the region of $500, it becomes the processor to pick.
EDIT UPDATE: All my Ryzen 5 2400G parts for complete HTPC are in-house. Won't take long to "screw together". But, I usually take a lot of time with OS, games, and applications before I'm satisfied -- and done.
Last edited by Allen; 02/14/1812:50 AM. Reason: Note Parts Delivery
Dell will use AMD chips in three new PowerEdge servers powered by AMD EPYC 7000 processors and will target enterprises.
This is due to the EPYC 7000 being able to support up to 32 cores and 64 threads on one CPU, up to 4TB of memory capacity, 128 lanes of PCI Express interconnect, and support for up to 24 direct NVMe SSD drives - meaning one processor can suffice where previously servers would have had to invest in dual-socket systems.
If you buy a Ryzen 5 2400G and a new motherboard today, take note. You can put it together -- BUT IT WON'T WORK at all -- nothing shows up on the screen. Why? Because first the BIOS has to be flashed with the latest BIOS code. And, you cannot flash the BIOS unless you have a "standard Ryzen CPU" in the socket.
Catch 22 -- between a rock and a hard place -- if all you have is the new motherboard and the new Ryzen 5 2400G. You also need a "standard" non-APU Ryzen CPU for a few minutes.
Anyhow, I took the Ryzen 7 1800X out of the machine I'm typing on. I installed it in the new Motherboard. The old out of date BIOS in the new motherboard recognized the Ryzen 7 1800X and allowed me to flash the new BIOS for Ryzen 5 2400G. Then, all was well
Just a heads up, in the event someone else has the itch.
That’s beyond ridiculous, and what is the average person supposed to do that doesn’t have a spare Ryzen chip knocking about?
Another royal AMD clusterf**k
After trying about 6 things to verify that nothing seemed broken, I Googled the problem. The solution came from Intel owners who were discussing how their new Intel CPU would not work in their Intel motherboard. They were just as upset as you are -- but at Intel. One Intel solution was to go to a store and buy an older design Intel CPU. Use it to flash the BIOS -- and return it right away -- hoping for no restocking fee. Fortunately, I had my Ryzen 1800 nearby.
Apparently and old problem that occasionally occurs when a substantially or radically different CPU design is released that fits old motherboards that were released with non-conforming BIOS version. Maybe its why Intel changes motherboards with new CPU designs so often (but, those new MB add to the cost of upgrading Intel). I imagine the soon to come 400 series AMD motherboards will not have the issue.
Non-the-less, we do agree that the AMD Advertising should have warned buyers about this issue and provided a convenient, no cost solution.
UPDATE: I went to Newegg and posted a review warning folks of the issue. Also, Newegg has finally lowered the price to the correct list price -- $170. And, they've issued refunds for the overcharge.
Windows 7 fans -- another caution about the Ryzen 5 2400G BIOS.
The latest BIOS on GIGABYTE GA-AB350M-Gaming 3 micro-ATX motherboard effectively prevents installing Windows Vista, Windows 7, and probably Windows 8 (I'll try 8 -- maybe today).
It will allow those to run properly, IF they had been installed prior to the BIOS update.
However, if they are damaged and one must use a recovery disk to restore them, the recovery disk will fail.
The symptom is a work stoppage during install or recovery with a message that the BIOS is "too old to use" (Huh???) -- I'm paraphrasing. So far I've found no work around. If you want Windows 7, have it fully installed before updating to the latest BIOS on my motherboard.
This problem may affect other motherboards - but, I won't be testing (I have 3 Ryzen motherboards).
So, for now, if a W7 user updates to the latest AMD BIOS to make the motherboard compatible with an APU (or to get other features), you might be stuck needing to buy Windows 10. Again, I have not tried all the motherboards out there.
Hopefully, its something that will be fixed in the next BIOS release. Or maybe there is a work around. But, who knows? Not me, yet.
Just occurred to me that the Gigabyte has two BIOSs installed concurrently. One easily switches between them. That may provide some sort of workaround path (keep one old BIOS, and one new BIOS). Not sure -- probably still need a regular Ryzen CPU handy. Being a fanatic, I might just buy a cheap Ryzen CPU for playing around, or not (just as cheap to buy Windows 10).
AMD Confirms 12nm Ryzen 2 CPUs Will Feature Soldered IHS For Better Cooling
The new chips will come in configurations of up to 8 cores and 16 threads.. However, they will feature GlobalFoundries’ brand new 12nm+ manufacturing process and enhanced Zen+ CPU cores. .. run at higher clock speeds than their predecessors and .. support significantly faster DDR4 RAM kits of up to 4000MHz.
AMD Confirms 12nm Ryzen 2 CPUs Will Feature Soldered IHS For Better Cooling
A high quality solder job is measurably more expensive than a TIM solution, hence why it makes sense to reserve it for high-end products such as the upcoming 2nd generation Ryzen CPU parts.
Current Ryzen CPUs have soldered heat sinks. And so will the next generation Ryzen CPU. AMD APUs use heat sink paste, because they are designed for low cost entry level market.
AMD sells easy overclocking. AMD supports overclocking with hardware, all Ryzen's are unlocked, and AMD provides a desktop application to make modest CPU and memory overclocks simple. As always, overclocking is at one's own risk.
Last actual words I saw from Intel were that they DO NOT recommend overclocking their CPUs -- even when unlocked. Of course, experienced overclockers sometimes get a lot out of an Intel CPU -- just needs more effort and care.
Intel sells a product partly on the basis that it can be overclocked. They charge a few dollars extra for "unlocked". Yet, the product's heat dissipation ability is hampered by poor design. So, they go slightly out of their way to remind buyers that they recommend don't overclock it. A few Intel buyers were unhappy. Thought it was false advertising (in effect) and wrote so at the time.
AMD sells a product partly on the basis that it can be overclocked. They charge nothing extra. They use a heat sink designed to support overclocking. And, like Intel, they warn its at your own risk. Ryzen buyers are not unhappy.
But, this is not the "slam Intel" thread. Intel and Nvidia make good products. But, they aren't perfect. After a few years of CPU imperfection, AMD has effectively caught up with Intel. So, at times, there are some good things to say about AMD.
This thread is mainly just to transfer current information about the "Future and Current Status of AMD". Occasionally, the thread mentions the competition to indicate where things stand competitively.
AMD Will Send You A Free Processor To Flash Your Motherboard’s BIOS For Ryzen 2000G Raven Ridge APUs
According to Arstechnica, you’re supposed to return the A6-9500 chip once you’ve got everything up and running, but peculiarly you’re allowed to keep the heatsink that comes with it.
Interesting fix. They loan one a CPU for boot and flash.
Anyhow, when a completely new CPU product is released, one must expect issues for a period. Up until Ryzen was released a year ago, both AMD and Intel were releasing "more of the same" so problems like this weren't common.
Ryzen 5 2400G was released Monday, I got mine Tuesday, I got mine working (using my main system 1800X to flash). Thursday and yesterday, I tested with Linux, Vista, and W7, and W10. Settled on W10. Today, I install games/apps and speed test.
The have been a startling 4 BIOS updates this month supporting Ryzen 5 2400G. I tried the first and the last (both worked). A special WHQL overall driver has been released for Ryzen 5 2400G -- seems to work fine in my limited testing.
One thing that I had missed, both AMD and Intel are no longer supporting Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8 in hardware. For AMD and Intel CPUs and chip set hardware designs are directed at Windows 10. So, getting an older OS running requires a little more work on some systems.
Anyhow, this is a "daily new news" thread. Not a "discussion" thread or a "my new build" thread. So, I'll stop with the day-to-day details of my experience. At some point, I'll say how it all turned out. But, it does seem to be going well at this point.
Not thermal paste like Raven Ridge APUs [Ryzen 5 2400G]
In the aftermath of Raven Ridge delidding, which revealed that it uses thermal paste under the IHS, AMD's Robert Hallock took to Reddit to note that this won't be the case with the upcoming Pinnacle Ridge CPUs, based on 12nm manufacturing process and usually known as the Ryzen 2 CPUs.
Hallock added that TIM made the most sense for the performance and thermal characteristics of the Raven Ridge APU design, describing it as the right tool for the right job. He also was quite keen to note that "a pure processor, designed for enthusiast gaming machines, plays in a different market" and as such has "different prices, different thermal and mechanical requirements", which is why the second generation Ryzen, as he calls it, will use solder.
My Raven Ridge Ryzen 5 2400G easily overclocks to 4GHz on all cores all the time.
However, after a few minutes in a stress test (e.g. Prime95), the temperature is climbing above 80C on standard cooling. The throttling limit is 95C according to the AMD overclocking software. I've read that 75C is safe for continuous use. I stop the test at 80C.