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#4401889 - 01/25/18 09:53 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: theOden]  
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Johnny_Redd Offline
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Originally Posted by theOden
I got trolled by them prior the Viggen release.
Planned a full evening and stockpiled beer and such only to have the stellar news day before release that we 1.5 series customers was out of luck since the release was going open beta at "promised" date (website still said 1.5 days after release, I don't think they ever wrote anything else but 1.5 actually).

Can you guys see how much I expected this 2.5 to be released as promised?

Yeah, spot on.

Why the hell would you even announce when betatesters are to receive stuff?
Wags is very very different from the project managers and producers I've met in my professional life.

I know he is a very dedicated simmer, just listen to him on that Viggen sortie they did, and I actually like him as a simmer but some days I would like to see on what grounds ED hired him as a producer.

I dunno, maybe there are no wheelchair ramps at ED HQ and he cant get in to work most days? There must be some reason for his lack of competence. His credability has just hit a new low with me.
A promise!
"I know most folk dont trust what i say anymore and so dont get frustrated anymore. This time I'll promise! That way folk will trust and get frustrated all over again".


DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4401892 - 01/25/18 10:21 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: - Ice]  
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- Ice Offline
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Your mistake, Johnny, was that you failed to see the difference between a promise and a pinky promise. Promises can be broken, but not pinky promises! Pinky promises are along the same level as:
cross my heart and hope to die
swear on my mother's grave
swear on the heads/lives of my children
in the name of all things holy


I hope now you can see and appreciate the difference and you can adjust future expectations accordingly.


- Ice
#4401954 - 01/26/18 03:02 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: - Ice]  
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Today's update says 2.5 Open Beta will be released JAN 31st. The actual release version of 2.5 won't come out until "one or two weeks later". Good news for those who like the open betas but for those who only use actual stable release versions...we're still going to be waiting.

#4401970 - 01/26/18 04:07 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: Tread_Head57]  
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Exorcet Offline
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Originally Posted by Tread_Head57
Today's update says 2.5 Open Beta will be released JAN 31st. The actual release version of 2.5 won't come out until "one or two weeks later". Good news for those who like the open betas but for those who only use actual stable release versions...we're still going to be waiting.

The original announcement says the Beta is what's being upgraded to 2.5. I'm not sure that it would have made much difference anyway if the release was non beta as I don't think 2.5 was ever supposed to be "feature complete" on launch.

#4401971 - 01/26/18 04:35 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: Tread_Head57]  
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Originally Posted by Tread_Head57
Today's update says 2.5 Open Beta will be released JAN 31st. The actual release version of 2.5 won't come out until "one or two weeks later". Good news for those who like the open betas but for those who only use actual stable release versions...we're still going to be waiting.


Considering that the 'stable' release isn't all that stable, I don't see an issue here. We are still talking about two versions, at different patch levels, neither of which has been tested at any depth. This is obvious when the release version is updated to the OB patch level within just a week or two. You can't do comprehensive testing and patching in that time frame and if you could then the release version number should be different since the code should be different. The version numbers are indicative of the fact that they don't actually fix anything between the Beta and the Release, but instead just pass the same code and call it 'released'. IMHO.


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#4401992 - 01/26/18 06:49 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: cichlidfan]  
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- Ice Offline
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Originally Posted by Tread_Head57
Today's update says 2.5 Open Beta will be released JAN 31st. The actual release version of 2.5 won't come out until "one or two weeks later". Good news for those who like the open betas but for those who only use actual stable release versions...we're still going to be waiting.

Is it actually going to be "released" or will it just be Open Beta slapped on with a different title?

Originally Posted by Exorcet
The original announcement says the Beta is what's being upgraded to 2.5. I'm not sure that it would have made much difference anyway if the release was non beta as I don't think 2.5 was ever supposed to be "feature complete" on launch.

Yeah.... expecting ED to be working years on something and then expecting that to be feature complete on launch is just asking for too much, right? We see this for 2.5, we see this for the Hornet.... why, oh, why were we hoping for any different?


Originally Posted by cichlidfan
Considering that the 'stable' release isn't all that stable, I don't see an issue here.

Haha, true! Doesn't really matter, this is just really to show that ED can't even deliver on their promises and will rely on word play to get out.

Originally Posted by cichlidfan
We are still talking about two versions, at different patch levels, neither of which has been tested at any depth.

Well, the testers are supposed to be "hammering away" at the Open Beta version..... but we've all experienced stuff before that made us scratch our heads and wonder how bugs made it past the supposed internal beta team.


Also note that what will come out on Jan 31st will be an update to the Open Beta while the full installer will come out on Feb 1st.... what's the difference? Those who want it on Jan 31st will simply install the Open Beta now and upgrade it to 2.5 on that day.....


- Ice
#4402022 - 01/26/18 09:50 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: - Ice]  
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Exorcet Offline
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Originally Posted by - Ice

Yeah.... expecting ED to be working years on something and then expecting that to be feature complete on launch is just asking for too much, right? We see this for 2.5, we see this for the Hornet.... why, oh, why were we hoping for any different?


Well the thing is DCS can't really be feature complete. It's updated continuously. The difference between Open Beta and final release won't mean much because of this outside of bugs perhaps.

In particular I think ED has hinted that planned features like ATC, missile guidance, and damage model aren't necessarily releasing with 2.5. I can't say for sure because I don't have quotes on hand.

#4402057 - 01/27/18 02:57 AM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: Exorcet]  
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Nate Offline
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Originally Posted by Exorcet
Originally Posted by - Ice

Yeah.... expecting ED to be working years on something and then expecting that to be feature complete on launch is just asking for too much, right? We see this for 2.5, we see this for the Hornet.... why, oh, why were we hoping for any different?


Well the thing is DCS can't really be feature complete. It's updated continuously. The difference between Open Beta and final release won't mean much because of this outside of bugs perhaps.

In particular I think ED has hinted that planned features like ATC, missile guidance, and damage model aren't necessarily releasing with 2.5. I can't say for sure because I don't have quotes on hand.


[Linked Image]

Nate

#4402080 - 01/27/18 03:30 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: - Ice]  
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leaf_on_the_wind Offline
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pmsl



Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4402095 - 01/27/18 04:41 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: theOden]  
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Chaos Offline
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Originally Posted by theOden
but some days I would like to see on what grounds ED hired him as a producer.


Well... he did produce that Jane's F-18 thingy back in the the 90's and has been a producer for ED since the LockOn days (or even as far back as Flanker. not sure about that). So, yes! He brings a lot of experience with him and is, obviously, very successful at his job. They wouldn't be here if he did such a lousy job, right?

I'm disappointed but not surprised that the usual suspects around these here parts would obviously like to see ED fail. Why do you even frequent this board if all you do is spread negativity. I just don't understand that attitude...

The nature of this business is such that "everything is subject to change", schedules are missed repeatedly and the end-product does not appeal to all of the potential customers. Oh well, deal with it. Do something constructive with your time as opposed to trolling and turning other people off that might actually enjoy using ED's products, warts and all.


"It's not the years honey, it's the mileage..."
#4402105 - 01/27/18 05:35 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: Chaos]  
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Johnny_Redd Offline
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Originally Posted by Chaos

I'm disappointed but not surprised that the usual suspects around these here parts would obviously like to see ED fail.

Oh on the contrary I would like to see ED succeed just once. I'd love ED to succeed just frikin once in hitting a deadline/release date. It's beyond incompetent to promise a release then miss it. Or hide their incompetence behind a "beta". They probably had that ready to go weeks ago but held it back in case Wags failed to live up to his promise. And here we are
ED fail all the time. It's nothing new and nothing anyone enjoys

Last edited by Johnny_Redd; 01/27/18 05:38 PM.

DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
#4402119 - 01/27/18 06:23 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: Chaos]  
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theOden Offline
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Originally Posted by Chaos
He brings a lot of experience with him and is, obviously, very successful at his job. They wouldn't be here if he did such a lousy job, right?

Considering the mayhem DCS been last few years with the need to use 3 installs and the fear of even "stable" going, despite open beta, up in smoke when normal customers get their hands on it I'm pretty sure you and I do not share views here.
We could extend this to look at the 3rd party adventure but as I said, let's agree to disagree.
Only thing I know for sure is, ED should be helluva happy to have customers of your kind.
You know, the apologistas flocking over at the Orwellian forums.
I good screenshot is all we need, right?

#4402123 - 01/27/18 06:42 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: Johnny_Redd]  
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damson Offline
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Hiding in the bushes
Originally Posted by Johnny_Redd

Oh on the contrary I would like to see ED succeed just once. I'd love ED to succeed just frikin once in hitting a deadline/release date. It's beyond incompetent to promise a release then miss it. Or hide their incompetence behind a "beta". They probably had that ready to go weeks ago but held it back in case Wags failed to live up to his promise. And here we are
ED fail all the time. It's nothing new and nothing anyone enjoys


The negativity here is just overwhelming. So even if they release on time you would still bash them and accuse that they "had that ready to go weeks ago". Even if many devs do that to ensure they have margin for error. After so many delayed releases why wouldn't they play it safe?

I had my own criticism over ED but what's going on here is just silly.

I'm just glad they' still in the flight sim genre business. They are certainly not perfect, but that's the market shaped them this way I guess. Since they are still afloat however, they must be doing something right, unlike all those dev studios that perished long time ago (RIP Microprose, Spectrum Holobyte, Origin ...)

#4402125 - 01/27/18 06:55 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: damson]  
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Johnny_Redd Offline
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Originally Posted by damson
Originally Posted by Johnny_Redd

Oh on the contrary I would like to see ED succeed just once. I'd love ED to succeed just frikin once in hitting a deadline/release date. It's beyond incompetent to promise a release then miss it. Or hide their incompetence behind a "beta". They probably had that ready to go weeks ago but held it back in case Wags failed to live up to his promise. And here we are
ED fail all the time. It's nothing new and nothing anyone enjoys


The negativity here is just overwhelming. So even if they release on time you would still bash them and accuse that they "had that ready to go weeks ago". Even if many devs do that to ensure they have margin for error. After so many delayed releases why wouldn't they play it safe?

I had my own criticism over ED but what's going on here is just silly.

I'm just glad they' still in the flight sim genre business. They are certainly not perfect, but that's the market shaped them this way I guess. Since they are still afloat however, they must be doing something right, unlike all those dev studios that perished long time ago (RIP Microprose, Spectrum Holobyte, Origin ...)



Playing it safe would be to not promise anything. Playing it safe would be to tell their customers we hope we can bring you the release of 2.5 at the end of January. Unfortunately we cannot guarantee that but we are definitely going to try. But no Wags promised. not an estimate but a promise. Hardly playing it safe in anybodies book but yours apparently.


DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
#4402131 - 01/27/18 07:04 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: Johnny_Redd]  
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damson Offline
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Hiding in the bushes
Originally Posted by Johnny_Redd

Playing it safe would be to not promise anything. Playing it safe would be to tell their customers we hope we can bring you the release of 2.5 at the end of January. Unfortunately we cannot guarantee that but we are definitely going to try. But no Wags promised. not an estimate but a promise. Hardly playing it safe in anybodies book but yours apparently.


Well I guess we will have to see for ourselves if his promise will be true. Four more days ...

#4402135 - 01/27/18 07:38 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: damson]  
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theOden Offline
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Originally Posted by damson

Well I guess we will have to see for ourselves if his promise will be true. Four more days ...

Am I missing something here?
Isn't it already confirmed the release is not in January but mid or end of February?
Unless you're a spare-time unpaid beta-tester?

#4402137 - 01/27/18 07:45 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: theOden]  
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Johnny_Redd Offline
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You're not missing anything. damson is.


DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
#4402139 - 01/27/18 07:54 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: - Ice]  
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theOden Offline
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Good, if you guys watch me now you can see how I make an Ace Ventura exit from this thread.

biggrin

#4402143 - 01/27/18 08:16 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: - Ice]  
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damson Offline
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Hiding in the bushes
This is from yesterday "weekend news"

Quote
DCS World 2.5.0 Update
Yes, we are still on track to release by the end of this month! Last week we created a test version of the DCS World 2.5.0 branch and we and our testers are hammering away on it. DCS World 2.5.0 will be released as an update to the Open Beta on 31 January 2018, and the 2.5.0 Open Beta installer will be available the next day. We are staggering these to avoid overloading our file servers.

The 2.5.0 "Release" version will launch a week or two later, depending on how the Open Beta release goes.

The Steam version will come a week after the 2.5.0 Release version is launched.

In parallel, we are also preparing the final update for DCS World 1.5.8. This will continue 1.5.8’s availability, but it will be unsupported following the release of DCS World 2.5.


What am I missing? That the version released first will be open beta? This platform is in constant developement, so frankly I don't mind that.

You can be angry all you want.

#4402161 - 01/27/18 10:15 PM Re: 2..5 Release Date ANNOUNCED!! [Re: - Ice]  
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Paradaz Offline
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UK
Damson, If this platform is in constant development, then it can be nothing other than a 'beta' at every single stage and will never become a stable release......that's what you seem to be referring to here and also what ED use as a particularly weak excuse as to their incompetence in never finishing any of their content.

There is nothing stopping ED from finishing the modules they started, creating a baseline whereby a particular build becomes a fully tested release and then working on the integration of modular content with patches and updated builds (it is no way modular now and the evidence of that is how they have to patch the core game just to support campaigns and other new content). They clearly have no idea of how to manage this project properly and that has been clear from a number of years.

Originally Posted by "Chaos"
The nature of this business is such that "everything is subject to change"

No, that's absolutely rubbish.... That particular line is really only used by ED because they have no road map and are constantly letting feature creep, their lack of planning and management of integration activities and their reaction to commercial products steer this rudderless ship. I can't think of any other developer in any genre that consistently miss deadlines not by days and months, but by years and no other dev uses the 'everything is subject to change' as part of their company mission-statement and branding.

The anger from some members in SimHQ comes in the utter frustration of something that has so much potential yet is absolutely wasted by the people in charge of ED. For me, 2.5 is the last chance......I'm fed up of the consistent let-downs and their inability to learn from all the previous mistakes and they've had more than long enough to sort this mess out. It really doesn't look like promising news though that the 2.5 merger/release is rapidly turning into a pre-release/alpha/beta with what sounds like a lot more work still to come before it gets close to what we were really expecting......it's already over 4 years late from their intended 2.0 release which is what all these core changes were based on.



On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
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