Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#4400137 - 01/15/18 07:49 PM The politics of Firefly  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 694
Schwalbe Offline
Member
Schwalbe  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 694
Quote
Naming his ship Serenity, Mal takes on a crew, which includes a pilot, a mechanic, a mercenary, a preacher, a prostitute, and a fugitive doctor and his sister. A diverse band whose crimes almost solely revolve around a desire for freedom, the crew of Serenity must endlessly dodge the ever-looming presence of the Alliance that threatens to close them down. The series' central theme seems to concern the ineptitude of strong central government and its tendency to oppress and stifle rather than free or secure. As Mal says, "That's what governments are for, [to] get in a man's way."

Through Mal and his crew Whedon asks us to consider: What does freedom mean when the nearest government agent could be millions of miles away? Like the nineteenth century American West, civilization on the outer rim of the "verse" depends not on bureaucracy, but on natural law and contracts.

Precisely because the centralized law is the very force that Serenity escapes, Mal must hold his ship afloat through a very rigorous sense of duty and loyalty; his crew is his life, and to defend them, he would do just about anything. Because of their basic human decency, Mal and his crew embody the responsible spirit of freedom. Here are some of Firefly's foundations for liberty, the foundations Mal upholds:

Trade should be uninhibited. Operating under the precepts of free trade, Mal is a principled smuggler; while the government places barriers on trade, Mal believes the smuggling he does is honest work. As he tells a prospective client who is apprehensive about dealing with supposedly dishonest smugglers, "Seems to me there's nothing dishonest about getting goods to people that need 'em." That philosophy extends to mud, medical supplies, and in one delightful episode, cattle.

The best protection is self-defense. Everyone in Whedon's universe is armed and ready to fight at the first sign of trouble; after all, if the government is too far away to protect you, or if it is itself the aggressor, someone must take up arms. Even the resident preacher will. As he says, while the Bible may be specific about killing, "It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps."

Prostitution is just another way to earn a living. Inara, the ship's prostitute, lends the band of smugglers "a certain respectability." Prostitutes, or companions as they are known in the story, are a highly organized, highly selective group of cultured and trained women. They are not forced into their work and carefully choose each of their clients out of a screened registry.

The government is not always benevolent. The fugitive doctor, Simon, and his sister River are running from the Alliance. River was the subject of a government experiment and Simon helped her escape when he discovered the danger she was in. It is unclear what the government was trying to accomplish with the teenage girl, but what is clear is that River is left damaged, violated, and afraid.

Contracts must be honored. On the outer rim of the Alliance, no government entity is accessible to uphold contracts or settle disputes. Even when dealing with clearly immoral and corrupt clients, Mal is sure to either provide the service he agreed to or return the money he was paid. Without such basic principle, the outer planets fall into lawlessness, and the Alliance might feel the need to step in and regulate; by honoring contracts, the outer rim stays free.


OK. I simply googled "firefly politics" and got this. But I tend to agree, and the reason I did this is getting the impression that everything coming outta Hollywood these days is becoming more and more.. you know, and I'm really getting dog tired of it. And it suddenly came to me that Firefly is a major exception. That refreshing anti-authoritarian view was a big reason I liked it so much.

I reckon kind of a long shot, but does anyone know similar shows/movies to this? (Ok preferably post 1990s, but knowing SimHQ, I'd check it out post 1970s!...)

Last edited by Schwalbe; 01/15/18 07:53 PM.
Inline advert (4th to 5th topic)

#4400149 - 01/15/18 08:21 PM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: Schwalbe]  
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,852
F4UDash4 Offline
Veteran
F4UDash4  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,852
SC
I find it remarkable that Joss Whedon could come up with this world of Firefly, this bashing of centralized government and yet in real life he is (though he denies it) a big time supporter of centralized government.

As for are there other such shows/movies, none that I can recall.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4400163 - 01/15/18 08:53 PM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: Schwalbe]  
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 7,747
Ssnake Offline
Virtual Shiva Beast
Ssnake  Offline
Virtual Shiva Beast
Hotshot

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 7,747
Germoney
The Expanse doesn't seem to cheer for strong, centralized governments either. The bureaucrats may not be malicious, but somewhat ham-fisted nevertheless.

#4400198 - 01/15/18 11:18 PM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: Ssnake]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 694
Schwalbe Offline
Member
Schwalbe  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 694
Originally Posted by Ssnake
The Expanse doesn't seem to cheer for strong, centralized governments either. The bureaucrats may not be malicious, but somewhat ham-fisted nevertheless.

Thanks! I'll give it a go.

#4400200 - 01/15/18 11:24 PM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: Schwalbe]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,473
PanzerMeyer Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,473
Miami, FL USA
Joss Whedon is a hardcore liberal so there’s no way that Firefly is some kind of sci-fi libertarian mouthpiece.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4400239 - 01/16/18 02:48 AM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,852
F4UDash4 Offline
Veteran
F4UDash4  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,852
SC
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Joss Whedon is a hardcore liberal so there’s no way that Firefly is some kind of sci-fi libertarian mouthpiece.



But it IS. Or at least it appears to be! And I agree with you about Whedon, that is what makes it so... weird.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4400245 - 01/16/18 02:56 AM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: Schwalbe]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 19,581
Raw Kryptonite Offline
Beat the Kobayashi Maru
Raw Kryptonite  Offline
Beat the Kobayashi Maru
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 19,581
MS
Not everything has to reflect politics of the creator. Any type of gov. can go bad and they can all be explored in fiction.
Definitely check out The Expanse though. All of the governments have pros and cons, it’s the corporations you have to look out for. wink


·Steam: Raw Kryptonite ·MWO & Elite Dangerous: Defcon Won ·Meager youtube channel
·Intel i5-9600K ·EVGA GTX1070 FTW 8GB ·EVGA CLC 120 Cooler
·16 GB Patriot Memory VIPER 4 3000MHz ·GIGABYTE Z390 AORUS PRO WiFi Mobo
· CORSAIR CARBIDE AIR 540 case ·BenQ BL3200PT monitor
#4400257 - 01/16/18 05:06 AM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,852
F4UDash4 Offline
Veteran
F4UDash4  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,852
SC
Originally Posted by Raw Kryptonite
Not everything has to reflect politics of the creator.


True.

But I couldn't make a series that depicted communists or nazis as the good guys, I wouldn't know how to pull that off.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4400258 - 01/16/18 05:08 AM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: Schwalbe]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 19,581
Raw Kryptonite Offline
Beat the Kobayashi Maru
Raw Kryptonite  Offline
Beat the Kobayashi Maru
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 19,581
MS
Yeah some extremes would be a stretch. LOL


·Steam: Raw Kryptonite ·MWO & Elite Dangerous: Defcon Won ·Meager youtube channel
·Intel i5-9600K ·EVGA GTX1070 FTW 8GB ·EVGA CLC 120 Cooler
·16 GB Patriot Memory VIPER 4 3000MHz ·GIGABYTE Z390 AORUS PRO WiFi Mobo
· CORSAIR CARBIDE AIR 540 case ·BenQ BL3200PT monitor
#4400268 - 01/16/18 07:48 AM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: Schwalbe]  
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 7,747
Ssnake Offline
Virtual Shiva Beast
Ssnake  Offline
Virtual Shiva Beast
Hotshot

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 7,747
Germoney
...but, "the greater good!"


#4400277 - 01/16/18 11:14 AM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 694
Schwalbe Offline
Member
Schwalbe  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 694
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Joss Whedon is a hardcore liberal so there’s no way that Firefly is some kind of sci-fi libertarian mouthpiece.

In Serenity the Operator asks his soldiers to stand down after the recording was broadcasted. And the crew lives.
The real ones are not this reasonable.
Many lines were said with completely butchered Chinese. So I know there's some liberal in there no surprise.
But on the whole it indeed is Mal sticking it up to Big Brother. Hard. And Inara's job, if that doesn't say it. I must admit I'm not familiar with the creator's details. But perhaps one can be.. flexible for his work.

Last edited by Schwalbe; 01/16/18 12:01 PM.
#4400281 - 01/16/18 12:11 PM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: Schwalbe]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,473
PanzerMeyer Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,473
Miami, FL USA
Interesting post Schwalbe. There are always exceptions to the rule but in Hollywood, I'd say that easily 90% of writers, producers and directors make movies and tv shows that fall in line with their own personal political views.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4400285 - 01/16/18 12:22 PM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 694
Schwalbe Offline
Member
Schwalbe  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 694
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Interesting post Schwalbe. There are always exceptions to the rule but in Hollywood, I'd say that easily 90% of writers, producers and directors make movies and tv shows that fall in line with their own personal political views.

I'm aware of that, which it seems makes FF more of a gem as it already is..

#4400287 - 01/16/18 12:27 PM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: Schwalbe]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,473
PanzerMeyer Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,473
Miami, FL USA
FF is definitely a gem and I need to watch the series and the movie again. It's been a long time since I've seen them.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4400300 - 01/16/18 02:04 PM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,852
F4UDash4 Offline
Veteran
F4UDash4  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,852
SC
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
FF is definitely a gem and I need to watch the series and the movie again. It's been a long time since I've seen them.



Own it all on BR and watch them at least once a year, sadly it only takes a few days to do so.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4400303 - 01/16/18 02:10 PM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: F4UDash4]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,473
PanzerMeyer Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,473
Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted by F4UDash4



Own it all on BR and watch them at least once a year, sadly it only takes a few days to do so.


I know the feeling well. I have several tv series on BR that only lasted one or two seasons at most. Rome, Caprica, Crusade, Firefly, Space Above & Beyond, etc.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4400308 - 01/16/18 02:23 PM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: Schwalbe]  
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,852
F4UDash4 Offline
Veteran
F4UDash4  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,852
SC
I need to get "Space Above & Beyond"


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4400334 - 01/16/18 04:52 PM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: F4UDash4]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 694
Schwalbe Offline
Member
Schwalbe  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 694
Originally Posted by F4UDash4

Own it all on BR and watch them at least once a year, sadly it only takes a few days to do so.

Well. I'm content. It might get soapy or "politically correct" as it drags on. Actually I consider the TV show very very good but still a notch from extraordinary quality wise... but combine that with the movie and it gets to that awesomeness. Not everything gets to be as epic as game of thrones!:D

#4400337 - 01/16/18 05:02 PM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,573
Arthonon Online content
Veteran
Arthonon  Online Content
Veteran

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,573
California
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Interesting post Schwalbe. There are always exceptions to the rule but in Hollywood, I'd say that easily 90% of writers, producers and directors make movies and tv shows that fall in line with their own personal political views.

A movie I recently thought of that I believe was surprisingly conservative for coming out of Hollywood was Demolition Man. I'm going to put spoiler tags on this to try to avoid it getting too PWEC:

It presents what I see as the more-or-less liberal approach of a controlling government, with smart people deciding what's best for the masses, as a bad thing, and an impedance to freedom.


Ken Cartwright

No single drop of rain feels it is responsible for the flood.

http://www.techflyer.net

#4400344 - 01/16/18 05:36 PM Re: The politics of Firefly [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,613
Mr_Blastman Online content
Hotshot
Mr_Blastman  Online Content
Hotshot

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,613
Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by Raw Kryptonite
Not everything has to reflect politics of the creator.


These days if you are a conservative author, it is dangerous to reflect your personal views in your writing in any major way. The industry is heavily stilted against conservatives and worse, social justice trolls are always looking for someone to ruin who disagrees with their worldview.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Dickey Betts was 80
by Rick_Rawlings. 04/19/24 01:11 AM
Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
Grumman Wildcat unique landing gear
by Coot. 04/17/24 03:54 PM
Peter Higgs was 94
by Rick_Rawlings. 04/17/24 12:28 AM
Whitey Herzog was 92
by F4UDash4. 04/16/24 04:41 PM
Anyone can tell me what this is?
by NoFlyBoy. 04/16/24 04:10 PM
10 Years ago MV Sewol
by wormfood. 04/15/24 08:25 PM
Pride Of Jenni race win
by NoFlyBoy. 04/15/24 12:22 AM
It's Friday: grown up humor for the weekend.
by NoFlyBoy. 04/12/24 01:41 PM
OJ Simpson Dead at 76
by bones. 04/11/24 03:02 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0