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#4257889 - 05/08/16 03:57 PM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) ***** [Re: Hpasp]  
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KJakker Offline
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Michigan, USA
I stumbled across this video that you might be interested in.


Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4298255 - 09/22/16 07:20 PM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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#4329946 - 01/20/17 03:49 PM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: Hpasp]  
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ACHTUNG Offline
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Anyone have measurements of the RSNA-75M radar... I know dimensions of the wheels and tires, size of the trailer it's on... the dimensions of the antennae's ect isn't normally the sort of statistics one asks concerning engagement radars... But I'd like to build a 1:1 facsimile of one in some voxel games...

#4353722 - 04/26/17 06:59 PM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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[Linked Image]

Attached Files sa-2.JPG
#4354186 - 04/28/17 02:28 PM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: ACHTUNG]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Hungary, Europe
Here is it for Volhov...

(lenght - width - height - weight)

[Linked Image]


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4375804 - 08/22/17 05:24 AM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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The explosion of an SA-2 Surface to Air Missile photographed by a Model 147 drone. The SA-2 had a profound impact on post-war Black aircraft development: it put the U2 overflights at risk, which led to the development of the A-12 Oxcart and D-21 Tagboard. U.S. Air Force


Attached Files Explosion_warhead_sa-2.jpg
Last edited by piston79; 12/10/17 08:49 PM.
#4394213 - 12/10/17 08:39 PM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: piston79]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted by piston79
The explosion of an SA-2 Surface to Air Missile photographed by a Model 147 drone. The SA-2 had a profound impact on post-war Black aircraft development: it put the U2 overflights at risk, which led to the development of the A-12 Oxcart and D-21 Tagboard. U.S. Air Force


[Linked Image]



147 Ryan drone just missed by SA-2...

[Linked Image]

#4394753 - 12/14/17 07:23 AM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: piston79]  
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Alien_MasterMynd Offline
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Czech Republic
Originally Posted by piston79
Originally Posted by piston79
The explosion of an SA-2 Surface to Air Missile photographed by a Model 147 drone. The SA-2 had a profound impact on post-war Black aircraft development: it put the U2 overflights at risk, which led to the development of the A-12 Oxcart and D-21 Tagboard. U.S. Air Force


[Linked Image]



147 Ryan drone just missed by SA-2...

[Linked Image]



Nice, do you have some more?

#4394762 - 12/14/17 09:21 AM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: Alien_MasterMynd]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted by Alien_MasterMynd
[quote=piston79][quote=piston79][b]The explosion of an SA-2 Surface to Air Missile photographed by a Model 147 drone. The SA-2 had a profound impact on post-war Black aircraft
Nice, do you have some more?


If I have it, all of you have it....

#4399129 - 01/09/18 07:53 PM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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[Linked Image]

#4448936 - 11/15/18 08:07 PM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: Alien_MasterMynd]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted by Alien_MasterMynd
Originally Posted by piston79
Originally Posted by piston79
The explosion of an SA-2 Surface to Air Missile photographed by a Model 147 drone. The SA-2 had a profound impact on post-war Black aircraft development: it put the U2 overflights at risk, which led to the development of the A-12 Oxcart and D-21 Tagboard. U.S. Air Force


[Linked Image]



147 Ryan drone just missed by SA-2...

[Linked Image]



Nice, do you have some more?


[Linked Image]



Attached Files SA-2.JPG
Last edited by piston79; 11/15/18 08:10 PM.
#4506217 - 02/05/20 09:37 AM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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Documentary with good comp. animation about Linebacker II




#4506706 - 02/08/20 09:00 PM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Jonas85 Offline
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Ontario
@Piston79,

your first video contain a very accurate depiction of a modulated noise jamming effects on SA-2, from 20:30, with a nice zoom-in at 20:50.

This is how it's explained in SAM operators training manuals ('statut boevovo primeneniya'):

A noise jamming creates a jamming strobe. But a periodic amplitude modulation to this noise (a sine wave) that is just slightly miss-matched (within 1-3Hz) from a scan frequency of Fan-Song (16Hz), creates the effect of jamming strobe (or its centre of brighteness, more precisely) moving around sideways, as if rotating around some invisible vertical axis on the scope.

This makes it difficult for an operator to keep a steady track on the centre of a jamming strobe and reduces the effectiveness of a manual tracking.

According to my sources, this form of jamming (noise jamming modulated at a scan frequency), especially used from several aircraft flying in a pod formation, was considered the most effective form of jamming against SA-2 by russian SAM engineers.

Sadly, there is no english or russian sub to the videos... there are some other interesting information!

Last edited by Jonas85; 02/09/20 12:52 AM.
#4506775 - 02/09/20 11:57 AM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: Jonas85]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted by Jonas85
@Piston79,

your first video contain a very accurate depiction of a modulated noise jamming effects on SA-2, from 20:30, with a nice zoom-in at 20:50.

This is how it's explained in SAM operators training manuals ('statut boevovo primeneniya'):

A noise jamming creates a jamming strobe. But a periodic amplitude modulation to this noise (a sine wave) that is just slightly miss-matched (within 1-3Hz) from a scan frequency of Fan-Song (16Hz), creates the effect of jamming strobe (or its centre of brighteness, more precisely) moving around sideways, as if rotating around some invisible vertical axis on the scope.

This makes it difficult for an operator to keep a steady track on the centre of a jamming strobe and reduces the effectiveness of a manual tracking.

According to my sources, this form of jamming (noise jamming modulated at a scan frequency), especially used from several aircraft flying in a pod formation, was considered the most effective form of jamming against SA-2 by russian SAM engineers.

Sadly, there is no english or russian sub to the videos... there are some other interesting information!



Indeed! This video is pretty good, I'm glad I found it!

@Jonas85, did you find a way operators could deal with this modulated jamming...?

#4506830 - 02/09/20 09:11 PM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Jonas85 Offline
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Ontario
@Piston79,

Dvina that Vietnamese had at that time did not have any technical fixes to counter modulated noise jamming (or other types of jamming) effectively.

For SAM operators, the only instruction was to turn off ARU/VARU and tune RRU knob so that the jamming strobe is as narrow as possible. But this couldn't have helped much against B-52. As Vietnamese had not much help on the hardware fixes from Russians, their only hope was to compensate in tactics - echelon the SAM batteries in such a way that at least one battery will get a good angle where jamming is not so strong. This is how most of B-52's were shot down - they got a firing solution when B-52 bomb bay doors were open (increases RCS) or during a post-target turn.

I can only speculate, but it would be very resonable to guess, that in Volkhov (> mod3, 1972 and later), GShV mode should eliminate or weaken the modulation effect (shooting rules recommend GShV mode on in jamming conditions), as long as jamming does not overload the compensation channel.

Volkhov mod3 and also later mods of Dvina (SA-75MK) had a fix called IARU (Impulse Automatic Gain Control) to counter strong noise jamming (like from B-52). It reduces the receiver gain according to ARU voltage level (which depends to the jamming intensity) on-receive during the time period that corresponds to the range above the horizontal distance marker. Supposedly, this extends the dynamic range by 25dB and rises saturation threshold. IARU effectively narrows the jamming strobe above the horizontal range mark on beta/epsilon indicators, so operators can track in angles more precisely in manual mode, as illustrated below. Range information is fed from RD-75 Amazonka (if available) or from I-87V/TT instrument. IARU mode is not compatible with GShV.



Attached Files Screenshot 2020-02-09 21.41.44.png
Last edited by Jonas85; 02/10/20 04:36 AM.
#4507293 - 02/13/20 10:17 PM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: Jonas85]  
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piston79 Offline
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Guess you have this one...?

[Linked Image]

Attached Files book.JPG
#4507404 - 02/14/20 06:29 PM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: piston79]  
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Jonas85 Offline
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Ontario
Originally Posted by piston79
Guess you have this one...?


Yes, I have that one cheers

#4507417 - 02/14/20 08:11 PM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: Jonas85]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted by Jonas85
Originally Posted by piston79
Guess you have this one...?


Yes, I have that one cheers



[Linked Image]

Attached Files jamming_nva source_red book.JPG
#4507527 - 02/15/20 07:04 PM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Jonas85 Offline
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@Piston79,

interesting, but pretty much unreadable. Do you have a higher-res scan, and can give a rough translation to it (an explication)?

#4507528 - 02/15/20 07:10 PM Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline) [Re: Jonas85]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted by Jonas85
@Piston79,

interesting, but pretty much unreadable. Do you have a higher-res scan, and can give a rough translation to it (an explication)?



Nope, it is in vietnamese... Posted just as artifact...

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