So I have been flight simming for the last 10 years on laptops. At times it has been very disappointing. My current laptop has kept me pretty happy, especially in our old house where I had to keep the laptop stowed away and could only set it up on the coffee table when i wanted to fly something. However, in the house we're in now, I have my own desk set up for simming. I've moved up from a Saitek AV8R to a CH HOTAS with rudder pedals. Recently I've been daydreaming about a desktop PC instead of a laptop. There's the obvious performance improvements plus a bigger screen.

The sims I would be using this for would be P3D (or maybe FSW at some point), IL-2 BoX, Falcon BMS, and maybe back to DCS/F/A-18 at some point.

Not only do I need some advice on which hardware I should look for, but also some pointers to where to get the best deals, since I don't shop for this kind of stuff very often. Let's just imagine that my budget is around $1500. A little more is OK. Less would be good too, as that makes it an easier sell to my wife.

Would something like this get the job done?
https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/Battlebox-2017-Essential-Core

Or would I need something more like this?
https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/VR-Ready-Deal-GTX-1070-Ti

In my non-expert opinion:

The first one would play just about anything at maximum or near maximum graphics settings on a 1920x1080p monitor. Overall, the gaming performance of this one is similar to my PC. My PC plays everything I want at 2560x1440p (but, some games put more stress on a PC).

The second one would play just about anything at maximum or near maximum graphics settings on a 2560x1440p (2K) monitor.

In general, the GPU is most important for gaming -- but a 1070 Ti is strong enough for anything for most folks. The 1060 6GB is the minimum for serious gaming -- but it works well -- so its not a true minimum -- its truly adequate. I like AMD cards, but they are overpriced now due to cryptocurrency mining.

The CPU definitely takes second place -- but, Intel 4 core CPUs running above 3.5 GHz base frequency should handle most everything (as will 4 core AMD Ryzen CPUs running above 3.5GHz base).

Memory is typically not important to FPS (changes FPS 1 or 2 percent) -- but get 16GB of the correct memory for your CPU. AMD Ryzen actually runs a bit faster with memory speeds at 2.6GHz or better -- that may not show up in a significant/visible FPS boost however.

An SSD for the operating system speeds up everyday performance noticeably (but not game FPS). Games can go on the hard drive. Everything else is just for show -- assuming you have the correct size power supply and a nice (to your eye) case.

Just "rules of thumb" I use. Other folks may have better or different "rules"

Hope you wind up with a fun setup.

Nice builds!

Firstly, you can't go wrong with an 8600K or an 8700K. However, I doubt a single radiator setup will do those CPUs justice. You'll want a dual-fan rad setup like the Corsair H110i or triple-fan rad if the case allows, or an air cooler setup like the Noctua NH-D15. I personally prefer air coolers as these are simpler and I don't have to worry about leaks or pump failure.

16GB RAM is always a good idea and the better the GPU, the better the performance.... I would ask about the brand name for the PSU.... this powers your entire system so you don't want to skimp on that! I would personally recommend building your own PC that way you can fine-tune the parts to your budget and preferences... for instance, I'm not much of a fan of those case options. I like airflow, and lots of it!! I currently use a Corsair Carbide 500R and so far I've not found a replacement case for it.

You also might want to consider a bigger SSD for your OS drive.... 120GB might be too small once you get your OS and programs in. Remember that SSD performance goes down the closer you get to full capacity. I would recommend a 250GB SSD for OS and another 250GB (or bigger!!) SSD for select few games, then a short-stroked 1TB or 2TB HDD for the rest of the games, with the slower portion used for storage. Note that m.2 and PCI-E drive speeds are measurably faster than SATA drive speeds, but only if you sit by your PC with a stopwatch. If funds are tight, consider a SATA SSD drive. For example, a 250GB Samsung 850 EVO is £80-88 while the 256GB Samsung PM961 NVMe drive is £94-99. However, I wouldn't sweat this too much as it's easy to add storage later on

One thing you need to consider is what type of screen setup you want to go with. Single 1920x1080? Three-screen setup? 4K? Ultra-wide?

Thanks for the feedback! Good to know the first one would technically get the job done, as that price is very doable.



Well, I didn't really build them. Just found them on the "post popular" section!




When I hear "build your own", I think of two things:
1. I select and buy all the components myself. I'm totally not qualified to do that. However, I'm not opposed someone (like the fine folks here at SHQ) do that part for me But it would really have to include EVERYTHING. I don't know enough to do it myself.
2. I actually assemble the thing. How complicated is that? Is it mostly just installing stuff with screws and a screw driving and then plugging stuff in?

Given my experience and free time, I'd prefer to buy something already put together. But I'm not opposed to piecing it together if there are significant savings involved.




Probably just a single 1920x1080, maybe 24"...? I don't really know. I've been playing on a 17" 1920x1080 laptop, so I imagine anything is going to feel like a massive upgrade. Definitely one screen though.

Would you consider assembling your own PC? It is a little easier these days and you may potentially save some more money.

If you are only playing flight sims, which are typically not multi thread aware, I would go with an 8600K. CPU cooler wise get a decent one that is $35 or so, such as Cryorig's offerings. The Noctua coolers are very overkill unless you are pushing the voltage to the limit to squeeze every last MHZ out of the CPU. Assuming your case has good airflow, even a modes voltage bump to get the clocks up there will be more than enough while still being quiet.

I use this case:
http://www.fractal-design.com/home/product/cases/define-series/define-s

I paid around $65 shipped for it on sale, and it keeps my CPU very quiet and within safe operating temps even with the voltage upped with ambient temps in the 90s. I am using the stock AMD Wraith cooler as well. With Intel the stock cooler is not a viable option, so do look into something like Cryorig or similar.

How much space will you need? If you only plan to play a few games, I'd say a 500GB-750GB SSD would be good enough for a good while. Just skip the HDD if you don't need large amounts of storage.

1. Selecting components is actually the fun part!! Think about women shopping.... but this is OUR version of shopping!! Yay!!!

A few core considerations:

• a. How important is CPU vs. GPU in your build? This will be determined by what games you want to play and may shift priorities slightly. Personally, I'd prioritize CPU a bit over GPU simply because I can upgrade a GPU 2-3x while keeping the same CPU.
• b. i5 or i7? A bit of discussion here but suffice to say that if budget is tight and you're only using this for gaming, you'll want an i5 K-series CPU. If you have extra money at the end of the build, that's when I'd consider looking at the i7 K-series version.
• c. RAM - 8GB is good, 16GB is better, tightest timings you can find, but no sense in buying the really exotic stuff. What is "exotic"? You'll know once you start looking at RAM prices.... it's the point where the price suddenly spikes up
• d. Motherboard - basically, anything that can house your K-series CPU is good. Gigabyte, MSI, ASUS, they are all good brands. Broad advice is to get one with features you need or want such as NVMe support, number of USB outputs, etc. I would also suggest you get one with diagnostic LEDs so that it can tell you what's wrong with your setup in case the computer does not fully boot up.
• e. PSU - 80 Plus Gold or higher, 600W or higher. I personally prefer 700-800W. Remember that peak PSU efficiency is usually under 50% load.
• f. Cooler - air or liquid? I already told you why I prefer air. I also like to overkill here a bit even if I'm not pushing for max overclock. If I can run my PC a few degrees C cooler, that can only be a good thing!
• g. GPU - why is GPU last? Simply because it's easier to upgrade GPUs later on. 6 months or a year from now, flog your old GPU and buy a new one and plug it in with minimal hassle compared to upgrading PSU or CPU.

2. Assembling PCs is easy! You may want to watch a few YT videos just to get an idea of how-to but most connections are designed to only go in one way so there's no chance of getting it wrong.

The nice thing about building your own as well is that come upgrade time, you'll have the confidence to install your own upgrades.... or if things go wrong, you can go under the hood and not have it sitting in some repair shop for weeks.



Depending on budget, you may want to consider a 27" or 32" screen at 1080p or 2K resolution.... or one of those ultra-wide monitors.... especially for flight sims, that extra peripheral view can do wonders

Is there a good website to use that will walk me through all the items I need to make sure I don't miss something (cables, screws, etc...)? I go fill a shopping cart on NewEgg, but I won't know if I've missed something.

I can customize on CyberPowerPC, but not sure if I'm still getting the best deal if I do it that way...

Took some of the feedback from above and added to the $1075 model I linked initially. Thoughts appreciated...

BASE_PRICE: [+1075]
BLUETOOTH: None
CABLE: None
CAS: Corsair Carbide 300R w/ USB 3.0 [+22]
CASUPGRADE: None
CC: None
CD: None
CD2: None
COOLANT: None
CPU: Intel® Core™ Processor i5-8600K 3.60GHZ 9MB Intel Smart Cache LGA1151 (Coffee Lake)
CS_FAN: Default case fans
ENGRAVING: None
ENGRAVING_MSG:
EVGA_POWER: None
FA_HDD: None
FAN: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO CPU Cooler w/ PWM fan - Efficient Cooling Performance [-6]
FLASHMEDIA: None
FREEBIE_MB: None
FREEBIE_VC: None
HD_M2SSD: None
HD_PCIE1X_SSD: None
HDD: 240GB WD Green SSD + 1TB SATA III Hard Drive Combo [+28] (Combo Drive)
HDD2: None
HEADSET: None
IUSB: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
KEYBOARD: CyberpowerPC Multimedia USB Gaming Keyboard
MEMORY: 16GB (8GBx2) DDR4/2800MHz Dual Channel Memory [+135] (Performance Memory by Major Brands)
MONITOR: 27" BenQ GL2760H (1920x1080) 2ms (GTG) D-Sub, DVI, HDMI, LED Gaming Monitor [+183] (Single Monitor)
MOPAD: None
MOTHERBOARD: MSI Z370 GAMING PLUS ATX w/ USB 3.1, 3 PCIe x16, 3 PCIe x1, 6 SATA3, 2 M.2 SATA/PCIe [Intel Optane Ready]
MOUSE: CyberpowerPC Standard 4000 DPI with Weight System Optical Gaming Mouse
NETWORK: Onboard Gigabit LAN Network
OS: Windows 10 Home (64-bit Edition)
OVERCLOCK: No Overclocking
POWERSUPPLY: 700 Watts - Enermax Revo DUO series 700Watts 80 Plus Gold high-efficient airflow w/ Dual Fans Power Supply [+28]
PRO_WIRING: None
RUSH: Standard processing time: ship within 12 to 15 Business Days. CyberpowerPC can not guarantee Christmas Delivery
SERVICE: 3 Years FREE Service Plan (INCLUDES LABOR AND LIFETIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT)
SLI_BRIDGE: None
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
SPEAKERS: Logitech S120 2.0 Stereo Speaker Set [+19] (Black Color)
USBHD: None
USBX: None
VIDEO: GeForce® GTX 1070 8GB GDDR5 (Pascal)[VR Ready] [+182] (Single Card)
VIVE_HEADSET: None
WARRANTY: STANDARD WARRANTY: 1 Year Parts WARRANTY
WNC: None
WTV: None
_PRICE: (+1666)

Interesting that you needed to ADD to the price for this case. I did like this case initially but opted for the bigger brother, the 500R because of the bigger side-panel 200mm fan (or option of 2x 120mm or 2x 140mm fans) and I was able to put another 140mm fan where the drive bays are for a total of three front fans



The Hyper 212 Evo is a good cooler but for an 8600K, I would personally spend a bit more for my cooler. Look at a few reviews to see performance of the Noctua NH-D15. In this review, using a 4770K, the Noctua was sitting at 71C-83C while the Hyper 212 was at 78C-95C. You'll also see that the Noctua is beating AIOs like the Corsair H110, both in temps and in noise. In this review we can see that the H100i V2 performs roughly the same as the H100i, but at less noise, with the most quiet at 43dB in the Quiet preset, so I'd say the Noctua beats both the H100i and H100i V2.



What exactly is the 1TB HDD brand and specs? If you're going to be short-stroking your HDD, make sure you get a 7200RPM drive and not one of those "eco" 5200RPM. If all you want is photo and video storage, then the 5200RPM won't matter



I would get more specifics here... what brand exactly? Also consider the 16GB DDR4/3000MHz version instead of the 2800MHz version... seems like you're paying +135 for 2800MHz when you could pay +120 for 3000MHz.



This is a bit of an oddity to me. Two fans? Not sure about this. My PSU pulls air from UNDER the case and exhausts it out the back so the PSU contributes very little to the internal heat.... also, the fan only spools up when the PSU is under load, making for quiet operations when I'm not gaming. I'm not sure how the dual fan setup of your choice affects the internal temps or where it exhausts the heat.



Sweet card!!



I don't specifically remember having to buy separate SATA cables, but that's the only thing I can think of..... the PSU should have more than enough cables for your basic needs (mobo, GPU, fans, 2 drives), the case will come with it's own cables for whatever wiring it needs, and if you buy extra Noctua fans (I'm sure the same can be said for other brands), it'll come with the cables you'd need/want. Monitors comes with its own connectors as well, but you may want/need a different cable based on your monitor and GPU. For example, my monitors only accept VGA, DVI, and HDMI but my GPU only does 1x DVI, 3x DP, 1x HDMI so I had to buy 3x DVI-to-DP adapter cables for my 3 display monitors.

You'll most likely end up with more screws than you need

Well, Ice, the reason some of those choices look a little odd to you is that I have no idea what I'm doing! That being said, I may be better off going with an OTS configuration with minimal changes. Actually, unless there's something wrong with that first $1070 option I linked, I would probably just add a 27" monitor and maybe up the GPU to whatever budget allows... Anything beyond that, I'm clearly just picking more expensive stuff hoping it's better...

This is all still a way off in the future thing anyway. I actually jokingly mentioned this idea to the wife, and she pretty much said I could do it whenever we have the money, which was a surprise! But there's some other stuff I need to take care of first before I can dedicate the money to this project...

First point --- might be better to have a look once you're closer to buying. What may be good value now would change down the line and so the reason for picking Part A may no longer be valid at that time. 3-6 months down the line and the environment can change drastically.

Second point --- make choices based on an informed preference or reason. Why i5 and not an i7? Why 16GB and not 8GB RAM? Why 16GB and not 32GB RAM? Why dual-channel kit and not quad? Learning about these things can be part of the fun of building your own PC, plus it'll help you make decisions later on when it becomes time to upgrade. Don't be afraid to ask "why" when someone makes a suggestion either. My reasons for recommending air coolers may be something you don't care about..... or may be something you've not realized before! Either way, you've learned why you'd want to ignore or follow that suggestion as opposed to just blindly following along.

Third point --- I'm assuming "OTS" means off-the-shelf? There's also a reason most people recommend building your own.... what YOU need may not be what system builders have in mind when they make a pre-built system. Their build philosophies may be different from yours. They may be trying to fit in under a certain price point.... and an extra $100 or so may allow for better parts that you'd want but they've not included as they were trying to hit a certain total build price.

I have absolutely no clue why RGB cases and tempered glass side panels are the craze these days.... I don't look at my PC case when I play, I look at my monitors and my games. At the very least, I'd appreciate RGB lighting to tell me if my system is at max or close to overheating..... but then again that's what stress tests are for.

If all you want is a machine that will do MS Word, Excel, Photoshop, Powerpoint, and the occasional gaming, then pick off-the-shelf. If you want something with a purpose, something that will be good value for money, but will allow for silly luxury upgrades, then BIY (build it yourself!!!) is the way to go!

Last --- there is nothing "wrong" with the $1075 build you linked..... provided you agree with all the choices and understand the limitations. As cited before, pairing up an 8600K with a single-fan rad or a Hyper 212 will definitely work for your everyday needs, but it may struggle or fail entirely once you start overclocking.............. and overclocking is a big part of choosing a K-series CPU as opposed to a non-K CPU.


For the meantime, I suggest you start thinking about these things and decide what you want from your gaming PC.

Yep, clearly have some learnin' to do!

I think I have a handle on the big stuff that gets talked about all the time - CPU, GPU, and RAM. But all this stuff like motherboard, cooling systems, PSU, I just have no idea. I'll dig into it.

It seems like there's no strict guidelines on picking a good motherboard. What I've gotten from other builders is that if it's from a reputable brand and caters to the top-of-the-line chipsets, then they're generally good motherboards and the criteria for picking one over the other would be whether the motherboard supports stuff you want/need such as enough USB ports, enough ports of the type you need (ie, USB 2, USB 3, or USB Type A, USB Type C), support for one or more NVMe drives, etc.

As for cooling systems, there are a lot of reviews out there!

PSUs --- same as motherboard. Brand-named, 80-plus certified, gold or higher, enough connections for your needs, high enough wattage for your needs.

With a good case and a decent cooler on the GPU and CPU you do not need to overdo cooling. A good higher airflow case typically comes with enough fans, and a decent $8-10 120mm/140mm to fill the last remaining slot in the front is all that is needed. You can snag Arctic Cooling fans for very cheap and they will do the job and last a good 5-7 years in general. Make sure your GPU is not the single fan blower style cooler and that will be sufficient. CPU wise, get a decent $30 or so cooler. If your case has good airflow the expensive Noctuas are not necessary. The others will perform well within the safe operating temperatures and still be practically silent, even if you up the voltage on the CPU for overclocks. I would only bother with the large Noctuas or water cooling if you intended on squeezing every last MHZ out of your overclock, and by reading your replies in this thread, I do not think you will be doing that.

Here is an example of my setup:


Nothing complicated. Very quiet and cool. The case came with two 140mm fans, and I added an old Corsair I had from a previous case as well as an old Noctua fan (very expensive for what you get, IMO). Good airflow and cable management as well as a solid cooler on the CPU/GPU will be more than enough. Even during gaming during the summer months the PC hardly spools up. It does a little bit, but it is still very quiet. Nothing you will even notice if you are using volume of any kind. Just get a few decent fans (Arctic Cooling is excellent for the price) and that should be all you need.

The Carbide 300R should be a good case, but those excessive DVD/CD bays will hurt airflow. You can probably pull them out. I don't use a DVD/CD drive anymore. If I happen to need one I may purchase an external. I had a Corsair 550D and while it was decent, my Define S was a fairly large step up in terms of keep my components cool. The PC became notably more quiet. You can also save a bit of space in these newer case designs by shortening the front due to the lack of the DVD bays.

My HDD/SSDs are mounted on the back.

Might well be the case, but spending £250+ on a CPU and maybe another £100 on the motherboard and you pair it with a £25 cooler? Something's not right with that picture.

Even if you're sitting at stock clocks and a £25 cooler can keep it below critical temps, why run at a higher temp when you can buy a better cooler and run at cooler temps? If money is really, really, REALLY tight, maybe skimp on the cooler and upgrade later. But if that were the case, why buy a £250+ 8600K to sit on stock clocks and not buy say an i3 8100? Both are 3.60GHz clock speed but one is £250+ and the other is £110, a £140 saving. So the assumption when buying a K-series chip is that the user will OC and even if he does not go to the bleeding edge of his silicon lottery, lower temps are still better temps.

Note that some parts of your build can last you a few upgrades as well and so there's no harm in "investing" a little bit on good hardware. A good PC case can last 2-3 upgrade cycles (with a cycle being anywhere from 3-5 years), same thing for the PSU. My Noctua NH-D15 has mounts for Intel and AMD processors and unless there's a big shift in CPU/motherboard design (not compatible with Threadripper/TR4 but compatible with Ryzen/AM4), my cooler can work with a few upgrade cycles as well.

Another reason to get a good cooler is noise. If a heatsink can draw out and dissipate heat effectively, you can run your fans at lower RPMs and therefore lower noise. Take a look at this review here. At max load, the Noctua sits at 71-83C while the Hyper 212 sits at 78-95C and assuming they were done with 100% fan speeds, the Noctua sits at 43dBA while the Hyper 212 is at 46dBA.... and it does this with the fans spinning at lower RPMs than the Hyper 212. While a sound level of 43dBA and 46dBA cannot really be distinguished from each other, suffice to say that the Noctua is as quiet as the Hyper 212 while providing better cooling performance.

Simply put, less heat = less wear and if I can get better cooling at similar noise levels, why not?

I think the better question is: Why spend that much on a CPU cooler? Even if raising voltage, it will be sufficient with a decent cooler. Unless you are trying to squeeze that last bit of performance out of a CPU (lets say you are trying for 4.8-5GHZ on Intel's current offerings) it isn't necessary. I don't think the OP plans on pushing his CPU to the limit either. Most of the good coolers will be near silent at full load and the temps will be well within the safe limits.

The Hyper 212 is also a bit outdated. The Cryorig offerings as an example outpace it performance wise, and can be had as cheap as $30. Cryorig also offers free mounting kit upgrades for their $30 offerings, for example they sent out AM4 kits free of charge when Ryzen came out. Noctua is great, but unless you are an extreme overclocker there isn't much of a reason to get it. That extra $30-40 can be spent possibly upgrading the SSD which would be more beneficial.

Noctua is great and they did start the trend of free mounting upgrades if I am not mistaken.

Some things to note:




Read the full review here:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/CRYORIG/H7_Universal/6.html

Is it better? Of course! Is it really worth the extra cash when budget limited? I'd say no. Noctua is great but the lower priced offerings have certainly gotten better.

Again, why? The cooler temps won't make the performance better and the few degrees won't result in any notable difference in CPU life. CPUs will last very long, unless the voltage is pushed to the absolute limits 24/7 (4.8 to 5GHZ for 6-7+ years) then you may see some degradation in the life span. Otherwise, unless you frequently monitor your CPU temps (which I doubt most people do when simming/gaming) you won't notice any difference. And games tend to keep CPU temps notably lower than most CPU stress test programs which is something else to keep in mind. Considering the needs of the OP, simming/gaming and the fact he isn't the most computer literate, I don't think he will be trying to OC his CPU to the maximum voltages. I just don't see how a $70-90 cooler will be that beneficial. A cheap one will do the same thing, be roughly if not just as quiet, and still keep the CPU cool enough to be well within safe operating temperatures.

I'd say he is better off using the extra money on a larger SSD, HDD, or even a better mouse, keyboard or mouse pad.

It may not improve performance at average OCs, yes, but I'm more comfortable knowing that my CPU is nice and happy and cool. I'm not saying your reasoning is wrong, I'm just saying this is my philosophy in this regard. You and the OP are free to ignore if you wish. As for CPU life, outside of extreme OC'ing, I'm not sure if anyone has done any study really regarding CPU lifespan depending on temperatures, but again, I prefer to err on the side of caution here.



A few degrees cooler is not beneficial? For comparison sake, your recommended cooler is half the price of my Noctua....



I didn't quite get the impression that we were penny-pinching a £40 cooler vs. a £80 cooler as the OP linked two builds which were $600 apart in price.... plus he's mentioned a budget of $1500.... plus we were talking about the $1075 build and adding to it, so I doubt that the extra £40 spent on the Noctua will be missed in the overall budget.

IMO, the extra 40 isn't worth it because it adds no real utility (better performance or longer life). I think for the OP's needs it is similar to adding RGB lighting, superficial and more or less for looks. All I'm saying is that it isn't necessary for the OP and they're better off putting the money elsewhere, be it a mouse, extra flight sim addon/plane or some other hobby.