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#4392502 - 12/01/17 10:00 PM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: Speyer]  
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Monnie Rock Offline
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Originally Posted by Speyer
There's a poll running on the DCS forum now, most popular option seems to be 30 days, be interesting to see what ED do. One things for sure, they seem to have alienated a whole new group of users over this.


I created that poll. Please participate.

Link to poll in my Sig



Poll Eagle Dynamics New DRM Expiration Period Limit
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Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4392545 - 12/02/17 01:19 AM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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Source
Originally Posted by 159th_Viper
It's not defending DCS at all. It's attempting to make common sense out of nonsensical arguments. By all means argue your point. Just be prepared to have your argument analysed and be further prepared to plug the holes which are inevitably present when one decides to rant for the sake of ranting as opposed to presenting a well thought, constructive argument.

Source
Originally Posted by 159th_Viper
There is really no excuse for some or nearly all of the crap that is posted here, some of it blatantly untrue.

Source
Originally Posted by 159th_Viper
Originally Posted by Johnny_Redd
You want to point out some of the "blatently untrue crap" you see posted here?

I call them as I see them.
If you want further info then please feel free to stalk my posts.
Don’t expect me to spoonfeed you information - I really don’t have the time nor the inclination, sorry.


Someone had his argument analysed and then he refuses/fails to plug his own holes and resorts to his version of a "well thought, constructive argument."

I just thought I'd provide a TL;DR version to help newcomers figure out a few things smile


- Ice
#4392578 - 12/02/17 09:38 AM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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Paradaz Offline
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Originally Posted by “Remon”
What reputation? This is literally the only place that is throwing a hissy fit over this. And this place has stopped being relevant to DCS since the trolls took over.


That makes no sense........if SimHQ is completely irrelevant regarding DCS then you are only here to troll! Or do your posts only become the ‘relevant’ ones? I think that’s how the ED forum message boards work but it’s never been the case here......all opinions count.

As far as I’m concerned this site/sub-forum is very relevant because it is one of the few places we can talk in a mature fashion about both the positive and negative aspects without anyone from either ‘side’ trying to realign the respective opinions......even though you are trying your best. As we all know the same cannot be said on the ED forum message boards because replies get censored and users banned that don’t conform.

Again, the difference you are bringing to the table is that we are discussing the product and features such as the Harrier, the copy protection and the recent letter detailing the 2.5 release in the coming weeks. You seem more bothered about commenting on the users here (remember the reading comprehension?) and the ‘irrelevant’ (it has to be if it’s ‘not relevant’ doesn’t it?) SimHQ community in general.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4392580 - 12/02/17 09:59 AM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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leaf_on_the_wind Offline
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So ...........

1. First the thread was opened on ED forums about the new DRM system for "feedback" - 11-29-2017, 03:55 PM

Then they started getting a lot of rightly concerned people posting with objections to it, so the mods did here best to belittle
anyone who was objecting and generally being rude to them, got facts about system works mods ?
then post them in the first post and let people talk, dont keep butting in every 3rd post

Mods are supposed to be there to stop people having flamewars and having nasty fights with each other swearing etc , your mom type stuff
But over at ED the thread that was opened to allow paying customer to voice their concerns is half full of posts from the "mods"
trying to down play these concerns and how awesome this will be for everyone

2. Next step ..... MOVE the thread from the second sub forums (where eveyone could see it) and bury it pretty far down the list so that people cannot see it in the Payment/Activaton sub forum
Bet if it had oft been a lot of glowing praise it might have stayed where it was

3. Then start deleting posts that are "Off topic" .... but these were probably posts not too happy with they system .. but of course leave the Off Topic posts from the mods that have been posted

4. Next they close hte thread with the hilarious line of "Thanks for the discussion guys. " which should really read
"Thanks for the good and constructive points you guys made about how this system will effect people who are offline for long periods of time, though most likely these people
wont have a chance to respond because they are offline right now, oh and we only gave you 2 days to try and discuss this before pulling the plug"
on 12-01-2017, 10:08 PM

Last edited by leaf_on_the_wind; 12/02/17 10:00 AM.


Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4392581 - 12/02/17 10:04 AM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: Paradaz]  
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Remon Offline
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Originally Posted by Paradaz
Originally Posted by “Remon”
What reputation? This is literally the only place that is throwing a hissy fit over this. And this place has stopped being relevant to DCS since the trolls took over.


That makes no sense........if SimHQ is completely irrelevant regarding DCS then you are only here to troll! Or do your posts only become the ‘relevant’ ones? I think that’s how the ED forum message boards work but it’s never been the case here......all opinions count.

As far as I’m concerned this site/sub-forum is very relevant because it is one of the few places we can talk in a mature fashion about both the positive and negative aspects without anyone from either ‘side’ trying to realign the respective opinions......even though you are trying your best. As we all know the same cannot be said on the ED forum message boards because replies get censored and users banned that don’t conform.

Again, the difference you are bringing to the table is that we are discussing the product and features such as the Harrier, the copy protection and the recent letter detailing the 2.5 release in the coming weeks. You seem more bothered about commenting on the users here (remember the reading comprehension?) and the ‘irrelevant’ (it has to be if it’s ‘not relevant’ doesn’t it?) SimHQ community in general.


No, I was interested in answering correctly a member's question (on the topic of the thread) that was answered incorrectly by another member. That's how I came in the discussion, your comment on me had nothing to do with that, hence the reading comprehension comment. And don't play innocent, there is enough name calling coming from the other side.

Quote
I think that’s how the ED forum message boards work but it’s never been the case here......all opinions count.


This is especially funny, when everyone defending the game is called a shill and a minion. There was a poster that was answering questions 2-3 weeks ago that was called an advertiser by some of you people here.

Last edited by Remon; 12/02/17 10:10 AM.
#4392588 - 12/02/17 12:24 PM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: Remon]  
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Originally Posted by Remon


This is especially funny, when everyone defending the game is called a shill and a minion.


Not everyone, just you and that weird ex-moderator (nothing to do with ED) guy.

You're not going to change any minds here, your mission and the time you are investing in it is futile and wasted, and you're reinforcing everything wrong in the world of DCS every time you open your mouth.

All you can do is troll threads in an attempt to start arguments and get them closed, rendering anything you (and the weird ex-moderator (nothing to do with ED) guy) do or say a pointless venture.

This forum is is the voice that ED and it's moderators tried to silence, do you seriously think your efforts will achieve their goal?

Last edited by FartHog; 12/02/17 12:35 PM.
#4392609 - 12/02/17 02:24 PM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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Tom_Weiss Offline
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I thought you still did.

as to the manner that people post - that is they way it is and has been since I've been a member here.

if SimHQ mods were to start editing that, they would need to hire 24/7 professional moderation and that would kill the forum purpose, which is to have lively discussions.

#4392626 - 12/02/17 03:05 PM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: Remon]  
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Paradaz Offline
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Originally Posted by Remon
There was a poster that was answering questions 2-3 weeks ago that was called an advertiser by some of you people here.


Oh, you must be talking about 'David_OC', a chap who has been banned from these forums more times than I can ever remember (last account was 'leigh583')....who's only purpose other than trolling these boards was an attempt to answer any and every post within the DCS section with a load of off-topic guff whilst attempting to blow smoke up ED's behind.

The post you're referring to is here where 'XIII' called him out so there you go, one person called him an 'advertiser', others just replied to his posts and responded to information about the product and then everyone realised it was an alternate account as he went further and further off-topic so yet again, not quite the story you're trying to paint about the SimHQ community. You may choose not to back up your arguments with any facts but I generally do and it's there for you to see so you don't have to make things up or move the goal posts to fit whatever argument it is that you're trying to make.

Read the thread yourself.......it starts here with 'David_OC/leigh583' submitting the first post and everyone replying about the product/information that he submits. He is banned by the moderator on page 7.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4392695 - 12/02/17 05:10 PM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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CyBerkut Offline
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Thread temporarily locked.

OK, I'm returning the thread to service. About 5 pages worth of posts have been removed in the process of cleaning it up. Some of the messages were not problematic, but since they were in the reply chains containing other (problematic) posts, they got caught up in the cleanup.

Stop the name calling. Address the content of the posts, but refrain from characterizing the authors of the posts.


http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4073031/Re:_*_Notices_to_participants_#Post4073031

(Emphasis added)
Quote
CyBerkut's Tips for Potentially Contentious Forum Discussions - Rev. 0

1. YOYOW - You Own Your Own Words. Since posts can easily be preserved for years, it pays to put some thought into them before hitting the Submit/Send button. Is it something you will be able to look back upon and not end up regretting? If you're responding to something that really ticks you off, it may be advisable to take some time to mull things over further before responding.

2. You can only control what you write. You can't control what the other participants write. However, realize that what you write can potentially influence the direction/tone of responses by others. There are no guarantees, but chances are good that if you post well reasoned positions, the responses will attempt to rise to that. Likewise, if you post emotional outbursts, you are likely to see something similar in the replies.

3. Remain mindful that some techniques tend to encourage further discussion, while others can discourage it. Including questions in your post tends to lead to responses. Short factual statements devoid of opinion tend to get fewer followups.

4. If you don't wish to continue discussing something, then stop discussing it. Of course other participants may continue on with it (see item 2.), but you don't have to spend anymore time upon it. You own your own words, but you don't have to let them own you.

5. If you find someone continuously annoys you, you can spare yourself much of the annoyance by putting them on your ignore list. You'll still see some stuff from them when somebody else quotes them, though.

6. If you've already posted a thorough answer to something and do not wish to write it all out again, use a link to the previous post that contains that answer. Quote the relevant section (with the link) if it is a small part of a long message.

7. Direct responses toward the content of a post, not the author. Recognize that if you make assertions about yourself in your post, you have effectively made yourself part of that post and have opened a door to discussion about those assertions. When you don't want it to become personal, don't get personal.

8. Just as it is permissible to ignore individuals, it is also permissible to ignore some threads or subjects. The world will continue rotating upon its axis, and your life may actually become more enjoyable when you shed the chore of wading through something uninteresting, distasteful or annoying.

9. Refrain from assigning motives or thoughts where they have not been explicitly stated. None of us can read minds. If you are drawing conclusions based upon events, actions or posts, then include an appropriate qualifier with it. Don't throw such a conclusion out there as if it is an established, irrefutable fact. Likewise for opinions.

10. Don't annoy the moderators!


I advise everyone to return to the topic of the thread.

A final thought... If someone finds the nature of SimHQ's discussions so troubling that they just can not help but proclaim it frequently with negative characterizations... we can arrange to spare you further trauma.

Last edited by CyBerkut; 12/02/17 06:14 PM. Reason: Moderation
#4392729 - 12/02/17 06:21 PM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: CyBerkut]  
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Originally Posted by CyBerkut
Stop the name calling. Address the content of the posts, but refrain from characterizing the authors of the posts.
A final thought... If someone finds the nature of SimHQ's discussions so troubling that they just can not help but proclaim it frequently with negative characterizations... we can arrange to spare you further trauma.

Thanks!


- Ice
#4392743 - 12/02/17 07:01 PM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: Remon]  
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Originally Posted by Remon
This is especially funny, when everyone defending the game is called a shill and a minion. There was a poster that was answering questions 2-3 weeks ago that was called an advertiser by some of you people here.

As I said, this may be partly because not many defenders last very long before resorting to ad hominem, strawman, or outright dropping the points they were trying to make. As for this other poster, as Daz said, that was the 4th or 5th account of David_OC. If you read the forum rules and if you read David's posting history, it's a wonder that he doesn't get banned outright. I guess the moderators are giving him a chance to return and contribute constructively (and I think Force10 has said something to this end before), but he often simply resorts to his old antics and thus gets banned again.


- Ice
#4392773 - 12/02/17 09:57 PM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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Monnie Rock Offline
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screwy They took over my Poll



Poll Eagle Dynamics New DRM Expiration Period Limit
[Linked Image]
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#4392775 - 12/02/17 10:00 PM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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theOden Offline
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theOden  Offline
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I see, haha WTH?
Only at ED.

#4392777 - 12/02/17 10:02 PM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: Monnie Rock]  
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Originally Posted by Monnie Rock
screwy They took over my Poll

What?? Surely you jest!! Not the most reputable forum on the internet!! biggrin biggrin biggrin


- Ice
#4392778 - 12/02/17 10:04 PM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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IceecI Offline
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Give a man fish and he gets food, give a man a fishing rod and he asks for another one.
#4392782 - 12/02/17 10:14 PM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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Monnie Rock Offline
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Now now Comrade Monnie,
just relax and take a deep breath, don't start talking about that evil Starforce and how well it was working before all this mess. You know that Starforce is just pure evil and we do not want people knowing that it was just fine the way it was. Remember Comrade, Starforce evil, New DRM Good, or we will have to sedate you.



Poll Eagle Dynamics New DRM Expiration Period Limit
[Linked Image]
Rack Rig:Rosewill RSV-L4000|Koolance ERM-3K3UC|i7-4960x @ 5ghz w/EK Monoblock|Asus Rampage IV Black Edition|64GB 2133mhz|EVGA TitanX Superclocked w/ EK Waterblock|2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB in RAID 0|Lepa 1600w PSU|Win 10 Pro 64bit|TM Warthog w/20cm Extension|MFG Crosswind Rudders|Obutto R3volution
#4392798 - 12/02/17 11:24 PM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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Paradaz Offline
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At least ED can change the results now to save face as it was increasingly looking like 90 days was going to win....something they clearly don't want given that it was 3 days in the first place.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4392804 - 12/02/17 11:44 PM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: Paradaz]  
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Originally Posted by Paradaz
...something they clearly don't want given that it was 3 days in the first place.


How so?

They specifically confirmed shortly after the news was released and the uproar started that the time period was under review, well before that poll started.


Airframe #36
159th Guards Aviation Regiment
"Airspeed, Altitude, or Brains; you always need at least two."
#4392807 - 12/02/17 11:48 PM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: 159th_Viper]  
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Originally Posted by 159th_Viper
Originally Posted by Paradaz
...something they clearly don't want given that it was 3 days in the first place.


How so?

They specifically confirmed shortly after the news was released and the uproar started that the time period was under review, well before that poll started.


This is true, but I am still amazed that management did not even know the correct number of days that would occur before phoning home was required. Wags indicated 4 but the guy in the trenches, coff, indicated 3.


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#4392808 - 12/02/17 11:51 PM Re: Eagle Dynamics - New protection system = the very definition of Bait and switch [Re: 159th_Viper]  
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Originally Posted by 159th_Viper
They specifically confirmed shortly after the news was released and the uproar started that the time period was under review, well before that poll started.

There seems to be a clue here somewhere........ mycomputer


- Ice
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