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#4392488 - 12/01/17 09:04 PM Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC.  
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Freezerbee Offline
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TL;DR: I'm working on a flight seat designed to be CNC machined out of a single sheet of 4x8 plywood.

I've been toying with the idea of putting together a low-budget sim pit for some time now. I started where I imagine a lot of us did - modifying my existing home office - making makeshift Warthog mounts for my office chair, developing weird oblique muscles trying counteract the chair swivel when I use the rudder. The usual. Lately though, I've been craving a more permanent solution.

Originally I was considering removing the base from an existing office chair and mounting it onto a shorter, fixed base but I could never manage to strike a comfortable balance between "way too hacked-together" and "just make the whole seat, idiot."

So I'm just gonna go ahead and make the whole seat.

I borrowed a book from a co-worker published by Make: called "Design For CNC," read it from cover-to cover and set out to model a flight seat in sketchup to be milled out on a CNC router.

The Specs:
Single thickness substrate only.
3/4" thick plywood.
Single bit/head.
Through-cuts only. No multi-layer milling.
Single bit (1/8" dia)
Easy assembly-low/no fastener. There's a lot of snap-together type joinery.
Sized to my frame (~5'9").
Adjustable foot/pedal-reach.
Easily modifiable model (different HOTAS mounting options and configurations or height/build)
Left/right hand dominant agnostic.

Bonus: Cut the whole thing out of a single standard sheet of 4x8' plywood or two 4x4' sheets (depending on mill size)

Here's the result after several design iterations:

[img]https://drive.google.com/open?id=19uBnJ7w8IpXvMUrNO7X-i_o3IYBVnvJ6[/img]

I know center stick would be better for the Warthog but A: No way in hell I'm spending $180 on an aluminum tube (Sorry Sahaj. It isn't because I don't want one.) and B: if 100% accurate is what you're looking for, it's probably to admit this project isn't for you. My main goal is reproducing cockpit ergonomics, not complete immersion.

Padding: the Seat is 18" wide so you could use a 2" thick outdoor chaise lounge pad (upside down) in a pinch, but I'll probably sew my own pads out of marine vinyl upholstery. Thanks for the skills, Ma. Also, Sailrite has a YouTube tutorial that made me wonder why the həll I never made my own custom cushions before.

Measurements: I started with the side-view of the F-18 pit and base my basic measurements off that. Adjusted the height fit my eye-line height and the width to be a little more forgiving.

How will you even…!?: I have access to a CNC mill at my work and a bevy of equally nerdy and enthusiastic co-workers.

That's where I'm at! Burning questions? Important suggestions? What am I missing? I don't think I'll be able to make this onto the mill until early 2018 but I'll happily share the model and cut files once I'm confident that everything isn't going to fall apart underneath me like a cartoon. I'm also working on a simple monitor/keyboard stand but one thing at a time.

EDIT: Added a center-stick vairant with mouse platform, extended and notched the seatpan.

EDIT: Added a second, center-stick variant. This one for a floor-mount center stick. Also added additional fore/aft adjustability for both the throttle and stick.

[img]https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Rl1GXwAtHL-IRofEqBzoauJyYZSRJ-fH[/img]
[img]https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PewwlJgbRUq3daoh_cpf4MtATpO0OcNk[/img]

TANGENT EDIT: I'm stress testing a 3D printed Warthog extender that plugs into a length of 1" PVC. Very leery of designs that have fixed lengths with this project:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ebZKv7KCyuWz-UJXFJRx3Vln0MM1j1hm








Attached Files Flat-pack-flight-seat.jpgflight-seat-center-stick.jpgwarthog extender.jpgFlat-pack-flight-seat-center-stick.jpg
Last edited by Freezerbee; 12/13/17 09:14 PM. Reason: Additional content
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4392525 - 12/02/17 12:12 AM Re: Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC. [Re: Freezerbee]  
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- Ice Offline
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Excellent first post and welcome to SimHQ!!


- Ice
#4392558 - 12/02/17 03:02 AM Re: Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC. [Re: Freezerbee]  
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LocNar Offline
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Haha nice, you even included a cup holder! :p

Nice design overall, looks like it would be nice and easy to move around when needed do to the open bracing design but without sacrificing stiffness. The pedal pedestal might be a bit high and the seatpan looks a bit short plus you might want to think about a notch in the middle of it for center stick users with extensions. Would be easy to adapt a bracket hanging from the seatpan to hold center sticks.

Looks like a much better use of wood and space than an Akers Barnes though, those things are really big and heavy and with VR coming along, mobile pits that can be moved into the tracked play area and removed again will be increasingly popular.

Last edited by LocNar; 12/02/17 03:02 AM.
#4392639 - 12/02/17 03:42 PM Re: Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC. [Re: Freezerbee]  
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Why is there a line right down the middle of the back rest and the seat itself?
Why is there a small triangular extension on the right side of the seat?


- Ice
#4394313 - 12/11/17 05:11 PM Re: Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC. [Re: - Ice]  
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Freezerbee Offline
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Hey Ice. Good questions.
1 - The center line is simply because a lot of the 3d components are symmetrical, I can modify most of the chair by only modifying half of one of the components wherever they're mirrored. It won't look like that on the mill.
2 - The extension on the right (or left - you could just flip it over) Is because I'm hoping to wire up some USB switches - Maybe an Eject handle - Run by an Arduino Teensy type keyboard thingy.

#4394318 - 12/11/17 05:21 PM Re: Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC. [Re: LocNar]  
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Freezerbee Offline
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I agree with the seatpan. I'm amending that in the next iteration
The pedal platform height and angle is a bit of a mystery based on the diagrams I've found. Those Saitek combat pedals seem to be designed for more of a car seat-height situation. I think I need to make an actual mockup with my pedals on it before I waste a whole sheet of plywood.
I threw the cupholder in half as a joke but can't bring myself to omit it since I have plenty of space. It'd be easier to just use a foosball table style bolt-on but what the heck.

Center stick Variant is in the works. You read my mind.

I put economy first for sure on this. In fact, I sort-of fit it on a single 4x8' to spite a co-worker who told me I couldn't do it. Barne's seat is a solid looking seat but A: I'd feel bad forking that style and B: it does use a ton of substrate. I think AB would still be the better option if you're looking for a more finished pit.

Originally Posted by LocNar
Haha nice, you even included a cup holder! :p

Nice design overall, looks like it would be nice and easy to move around when needed do to the open bracing design but without sacrificing stiffness. The pedal pedestal might be a bit high and the seatpan looks a bit short plus you might want to think about a notch in the middle of it for center stick users with extensions. Would be easy to adapt a bracket hanging from the seatpan to hold center sticks.

Looks like a much better use of wood and space than an Akers Barnes though, those things are really big and heavy and with VR coming along, mobile pits that can be moved into the tracked play area and removed again will be increasingly popular.

#4394330 - 12/11/17 06:26 PM Re: Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC. [Re: Freezerbee]  
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Freezerbee Offline
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Okay noob center-stick question. Please advise:

When you mount a center-stick, does the axis of control remain aligned with the centerline of the airframe or do the axes rotate WITH the stick. I suspect I know the answer but… You know… Due diligence.

This is what I mean. Both sticks are about 10º-15º counter clockwise (right-handed):

[img]https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EZt6mQ79dCNwMgg1c1yGxBfO2LD0VLzs[/img]

Thanks! it effects how I set up the bolt pattern.

Attached Files flight-stick-axis-angle.jpg
Last edited by Freezerbee; 12/11/17 06:27 PM.
#4394354 - 12/11/17 09:37 PM Re: Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC. [Re: Freezerbee]  
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LocNar Offline
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Axes remain centerline with the aircraft, only the grip is rotated.

People with a Warthog however usually move the whole joystick and use TARGET to compensate for whatever angle it's set at and the 'trailer hitch' gimbals is not particular about which way 12:00 is is. Most gimbals however have separate axes and definitely care which way 12:00 is. Your best bet is to leave that blank for folks to drill out their own holes, or if making Warty holes make them oval'd in an arc to accommodate positioning.

#4394384 - 12/11/17 11:27 PM Re: Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC. [Re: LocNar]  
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Freezerbee Offline
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Thanks for the edification, Loc!

The "Leave blank" situation really does make the the most sense. Just four little holes.

It's easy to get carried away when you're designing in CAD. When you've got a hammer everything looks like a nail.

#4394444 - 12/12/17 01:55 PM Re: Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC. [Re: Freezerbee]  
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I. LOVE. IT!


Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.


#4394524 - 12/12/17 09:38 PM Re: Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC. [Re: Freezerbee]  
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Freezerbee, just in case you're not aware of this: If you have an extension for your Warthog, you can generally set the grip angle however you want, and leave the angle of the base normal.


Jared
-----
FalconNW MachV, Obutto R3volution

DEFENSOR FORTIS

#4394648 - 12/13/17 05:11 PM Re: Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC. [Re: RogueSqdn]  
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Yeah this was news to me but it's welcome news. It's never been an issue for me until now since I've been using it unbolted on my desk like a caveman.

#4394678 - 12/13/17 10:45 PM Re: Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC. [Re: Freezerbee]  
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[Linked Image]


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#4395052 - 12/15/17 09:00 PM Re: Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC. [Re: Freezerbee]  
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f15sim Offline
More projects than sense!
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That's a really clean design. Nice job!

Where'd you find the STL for the printed Warthog adapter?

You might want to reconsider using a 1/8" mill. Your milling time is going to be pretty high unless your'e REALLY aggressive with the cutter. "Aggressive" with an 1/8" cutter is shorthand for "break bits frequently". wink You can run a 1/4" cutter at 2-3in/sec using 1/4" deep passes, half that speed at 1/2" passes.

g.


Proud owner of 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://geneb.simpits.org - the Me-109F/X Project
#4395498 - 12/18/17 07:59 PM Re: Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC. [Re: f15sim]  
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The adapter I modeled myself based in-part on a design Io found on Thingiverse by No3DoB. I still haven't really stress-tested it but it fits great and the threads work better than I ever expected and it doesn't bump at full-throw. It looks like the forums don't like STLs but PM me if anyone wants to try printing one of your own and I'll send it along. It's no Sahaj for sure but then, what is?

Good looking out using a bigger bit (there's really no reason to use a bit that small anyway). My mech-shop guy just told me the same thing. I was a little concerned before but not enough to re-set all my dog bones/snigs. I'll update everything to 1/4" shortly.

#4395502 - 12/18/17 08:13 PM Re: Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC. [Re: Freezerbee]  
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f15sim Offline
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The tool path software I use[*] does part nesting (layout optimization) as well as one-click dogbones/t-slots. If you want to send the DXF my way, I can do the nesting & dogbones for you, but it likely wouldn't be until Wednesday.

I'd love to get a copy of the STL from you. You can email it direct to geneb at deltasoft.com if you like. I'm pretty sure I've got an idle printer or 10... biggrin

g.

* I use Aspire from Vectric. They've got a less expensive product called VCarve Pro that has the same nesting and one-click dogbone features. If you do a lot of CNC routing, either one is an excellent choice. Aspire is great for doing 3D carving as well.

g.


Proud owner of 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://geneb.simpits.org - the Me-109F/X Project
#4395530 - 12/18/17 11:18 PM Re: Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC. [Re: Freezerbee]  
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Thanks man!

I appreciate it! STL comin' atcha. I do have Vcarve but I did not know it had auto bones. I've been doing it all manually in sketchup. CNC is my next box to check on my "learn to fab" list so I'm gonna try to follow this one through.

Last edited by Freezerbee; 12/18/17 11:57 PM.
#4412406 - 03/23/18 04:35 PM Re: Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC. [Re: Freezerbee]  
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Well thought out design....perfect for the VR folks out there. Great job!

#4425071 - 06/07/18 05:58 PM Re: Low-cost sim pit. Designing for CNC. [Re: Freezerbee]  
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I'm very interested to see how you resolved this lower-cost project. Did it work?
Could we get the measurements? Thanks for any assistance that you can lend.


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