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#4391415 - 11/26/17 04:19 AM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: cichlidfan]  
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Originally Posted by cichlidfan
Since this was explicitly stated to be a public release of a privately contracted project, it is silly to say such things. While I am not thrilled with the announcement, we have always known that non-commercial contracts provide the core of ED's revenue stream. Personally, I doubt they could have survived without these sort of projects.


Agreed. Not my first choice at all, but they clearly do projects not originally intended for the public.

As for the Digital "Combat" Simulator part, just realize it is a name and as a project evolves that name may not be too relevant anymore. Take IL-2 Cliffs of Dover as an example. IL-2s in the Battle of Britain? Dumb but it is just a name. I suppose someone found that ED/DCS was either cheaper, better or faster than developing for an alternative platform.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4391418 - 11/26/17 05:04 AM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: Swordsman]  
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Way over in Perth, Western Aus...
I wouldn't say "faster"...


mdwa
#4391453 - 11/26/17 12:36 PM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: Flogger23m]  
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Originally Posted by 159th_Viper
Personally glad about the release myself. Will afford virtual Russian squadrons a realistic training regime, from props to trainer jets to fighter jets.

Sound decision.

banghead
Digital TRAINING Simulator

Originally Posted by cichlidfan
Since this was explicitly stated to be a public release of a privately contracted project, it is silly to say such things. While I am not thrilled with the announcement, we have always known that non-commercial contracts provide the core of ED's revenue stream. Personally, I doubt they could have survived without these sort of projects.

Holy sh!t.... Feels weird agreeing with cichlidfan on so many things.... must be something in the water!! biggrin

Originally Posted by Paradaz
What's next? An add-on which integrates 'The Sims' to DCS World? Because after all, everyone needs to nurture a baby through adolescence, into teens and then signing up to the relevant air-force before they can even become a pilot in the first place before their training starts for real. Perhaps there could also be a 'sleep simulator'...every wannabe pilot needs rest, preferably a good 8 hours before strapping themselves into the cockpit.

Can we just skip all this BS and just get a Digital Applying-to-the-Air-Force Simulator? If you pass, then you can buy the relevant training modules. If you fail, then you aren't allowed to purchase anything and must apply next year.

Also announcing the new line of add-on modules:
Digital Piddle Pack Simulator
Digital Diaper Simulator
Digital Blackout Simulator
Digital Redout Simulator
Digital Sweat Simulator
Digital Briefing/Debriefing Simulator


Originally Posted by cichlidfan
There is a difference between being wrong and being incompetent. Without a lot more information I am loath to deem someone incompetent (you really need a lot of inside info to come to that conclusion). The folks that code are probably doing what they can do within the parameters they are given and low level managers are doing the same. The higher level management may have goals that are not apparent. There are too many unknowns to come to a solid explanation as to why things are the way they are.

While being wrong != being incompetent, if you get so many things wrong, then you **are** incompetent.

incompetent
adjective
not having or showing the necessary skills to do something successfully.

So you can be wrong a couple of times, make a few mistakes, teething issues, or a few blunders as you find your feet. To do that a good decade into your existence as a company is incompetent.


Originally Posted by cichlidfan
Regarding the last part, the revenue stream is vital, no matter what else happens. If money is not coming in it does not matter how good, or bad, the plans for the future are. The fact that they can maintain an income is probably far more important than any given milestone for the base environment.

I am not saying that this plan has long term viability but it has, without question, served them so far, else they would not still be producing a product of any kind.

Revenue is vital --- so why have they not concentrated on guaranteed cash-cow products like the Hornet, Tomcat, or Apache? Instead, we get a smattering of trainers and 3rd-party aircraft and a whole new graphics engine that will be given away for "free"? It has served them so far, yes, but at what cost?


Originally Posted by Flogger23m
As for the Digital "Combat" Simulator part, just realize it is a name and as a project evolves that name may not be too relevant anymore. Take IL-2 Cliffs of Dover as an example. IL-2s in the Battle of Britain? Dumb but it is just a name. I suppose someone found that ED/DCS was either cheaper, better or faster than developing for an alternative platform.

It is a name and that name may not be relevant anymore?? It is still producing "combat" aircraft, is it not? It is still producing theatres where "combat" is done or training for "combat" is done, is it not?


- Ice
#4391468 - 11/26/17 02:25 PM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: Flogger23m]  
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Originally Posted by Flogger23m

.....but they clearly do projects not originally intended for the public.


Yep.

The public/hobbyist sector is merely icing on the cake. Canny business sense.


Airframe #36
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#4391486 - 11/26/17 03:21 PM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice

Also announcing the new line of add-on modules:
Digital Piddle Pack Simulator
Digital Diaper Simulator
Digital Blackout Simulator
Digital Redout Simulator
Digital Sweat Simulator
Digital Briefing/Debriefing Simulator

"Digital Barnum test" how much money do you spend before you realise you're a sucker.


DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
#4391497 - 11/26/17 04:23 PM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: Johnny_Redd]  
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Originally Posted by 159th_Viper
The public/hobbyist sector is merely icing on the cake. Canny business sense.

I love how he celebrates the supposed idea that we're 2nd-hand customers in the attempt to prop up ED. I wonder if their military projects suffer the same incompetence? Or is this "incompetence" a result of their military obligations but still they're not man enough to tell us outright?


Originally Posted by Johnny_Redd
"Digital Barnum test" how much money do you spend before you realise you're a sucker.

On the other thread, Pooch gave a rough estimate on what it'll cost to have a decent WWII stable and theatre.... and yet we still have people on the ED forums and here humble-bragging about them owning all but one or two of ED's offerings...


- Ice
#4391502 - 11/26/17 04:53 PM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: Johnny_Redd]  
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Redd

"Digital Barnum test" how much money do you spend before you realise you're a sucker.


That';s the beauty of expendable income: It's expendable.


Airframe #36
159th Guards Aviation Regiment
"Airspeed, Altitude, or Brains; you always need at least two."
#4391509 - 11/26/17 05:21 PM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: 159th_Viper]  
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Originally Posted by 159th_Viper
That';s the beauty of expendable income: It's expendable.

What does expendable income have to do with being a sucker???


- Ice
#4391514 - 11/26/17 06:03 PM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: Swordsman]  
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Airframe #36
159th Guards Aviation Regiment
"Airspeed, Altitude, or Brains; you always need at least two."
#4391540 - 11/26/17 08:43 PM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: Swordsman]  
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Hey, there you go. A Piper Cub. Make it the L4, Army version, they could use it on the Normandy map, too. Now that's getting more bang for your buck.
Disclaimer: The previous statement, if not understood, was said in jest and is not an accurate reflection of the posters actual feeling on this subject.


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#4391553 - 11/26/17 10:53 PM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: Swordsman]  
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I really hope they will do a Cessna 172 or something next... so many heads will pop around here biggrin

I also think that this might be the only way something would make them at some point to make a DCSW3 with the whole Earth and the maps just be high detail of the areas they represent. For now they said whole Earth is out of discussion for DCSW and imho this is the biggest nail in the coffin for DCS. I can be proven wrong by huge sales of Nevada and future Hormuz though...

#4391564 - 11/27/17 01:19 AM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: Swordsman]  
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Yes but what avionics in the Cessna though?? biggrin

I don't see the point in "whole Earth" for a COMBAT sim.... for a civvie sim, yes, but we already have FSX/P3D/XP for that.


- Ice
#4391612 - 11/27/17 02:21 PM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: Swordsman]  
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The point is not to be capped in player numbers.

Also

Combat is very limiting for future growth. I mean money here not fame.

#4391626 - 11/27/17 05:10 PM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice
Originally Posted by 159th_Viper
That';s the beauty of expendable income: It's expendable.

What does expendable income have to do with being a sucker???


You're skirting the edge with this shot Ice...let's not have this get out of hand.


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#4391628 - 11/27/17 05:14 PM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: Swordsman]  
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I don't think some people can help it.This place was quite pleasant for the last week or so.

#4391629 - 11/27/17 05:15 PM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: Swordsman]  
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Sigh. Now something else to delay the Hornet release..

#4391643 - 11/27/17 08:05 PM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice

Originally Posted by Flogger23m
As for the Digital "Combat" Simulator part, just realize it is a name and as a project evolves that name may not be too relevant anymore. Take IL-2 Cliffs of Dover as an example. IL-2s in the Battle of Britain? Dumb but it is just a name. I suppose someone found that ED/DCS was either cheaper, better or faster than developing for an alternative platform.

It is a name and that name may not be relevant anymore?? It is still producing "combat" aircraft, is it not? It is still producing theatres where "combat" is done or training for "combat" is done, is it not?


ED does develop combat aircraft and theaters where combat may be done but they are clearly expanding away from combat only. Between NTTR (no air wars will be fought in Nevada/California/Arizona), the YAK-52, the trainer P-51 variant I think it is safe to say DCS is encompassing more than just combat. Although considering the name, if it is supposed to be literal, then that can include everything from planes to mortars or even fist to fist combat. Again I wouldn't look too much into the name. I can think of a few other companies which started with a certain type of product and then jumped into different fields making the name feel a bit dated given their current products.

Originally Posted by - Ice
Originally Posted by 159th_Viper
The public/hobbyist sector is merely icing on the cake. Canny business sense.

I love how he celebrates the supposed idea that we're 2nd-hand customers in the attempt to prop up ED. I wonder if their military projects suffer the same incompetence? Or is this "incompetence" a result of their military obligations but still they're not man enough to tell us outright?


Given what I have heard about military simulators, DCS is probably superb even if it is of the same quality level for the military/government contracts. And if we are indeed not prioritized and military/government contracts come first I can hardly get upset at ED for it. They're a business and if that model is what they perceive as being the best choice for their own growth then good for them. I wouldn't be happy about it because I don't have use for programs I can't own but it is their right to develop software for whatever market they desire.

Another member a while back brought up the part in bold, and I do think it plays a part in the delays.

Getting down to it, you are more interested in the game aspects of a flight simulator. The dynamic campaign and the sense of purpose it provides along with a good combat experience. These are the gamey aspects of a simulator which provide a lot of the fun. Even the older Jane's titles which were not as realistic felt less sterile. This is something I have brought up in the past, but the older American simulators/realistic games felt more lively and refined. While they have not have been as realistic (excluding F4) they seemed to provide a more whole package. Compare DCS to a Janes title and the original Rainbow Six or SWAT games to ArmA and you can understand what point I am getting at.

But DCS is clearly a very good air frame simulator. And when you get down to what a flight simulator is supposed to do in the traditional sense, DCS does an excellent job. I too would like to see more improvements to the combat part (the fun part), such as ground vehicle AI/accuracy fixes and similar though.

#4391645 - 11/27/17 08:19 PM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted by Force10
Originally Posted by - Ice
Originally Posted by 159th_Viper
That';s the beauty of expendable income: It's expendable.

What does expendable income have to do with being a sucker???


You're skirting the edge with this shot Ice...let's not have this get out of hand.

His reply was to vipers confusing reply to my barnum "sucker" post. He wasn't being personal.


DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
#4391650 - 11/27/17 09:07 PM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: Johnny_Redd]  
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Redd
Originally Posted by Force10
Originally Posted by - Ice
Originally Posted by 159th_Viper
That';s the beauty of expendable income: It's expendable.

What does expendable income have to do with being a sucker???


You're skirting the edge with this shot Ice...let's not have this get out of hand.

His reply was to vipers confusing reply to my barnum "sucker" post. He wasn't being personal.


Yes...I saw that...but this is how pissing matches get started. Just trying to head it off before another thread ends up in the scrap pile.


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#4391652 - 11/27/17 09:31 PM Re: Yak-52? What's Next? A Piper Cub or a Hang Glider? [Re: Speyer]  
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Originally Posted by Force10
Yes...I saw that...but this is how pissing matches get started. Just trying to head it off before another thread ends up in the scrap pile.

Nothing to worry about there, Force10. I do believe I'm on 159th's ignore list so I don't expect to be hearing back from him....

What I don't understand is how is it "skirting the edge"?? He's trying to say that if it's expendable income, then you can spend it all you want and you won't be a sucker? What I'm saying is that you can have $500 expendable income and still be suckered out of $5. The amount does not matter, the money being expendable does not matter. The phrase, I believe, is "a fool and his money are soon parted," it does not say anything about expendable income or not.


Originally Posted by Speyer
I don't think some people can help it.This place was quite pleasant for the last week or so.

Ah.... I was wondering when it was going to be about the poster and not the content. Glad to see I didn't have to wait long. Did you have anything to say about the Yak or DCS? Guess not.


- Ice
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