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#4390910 - 11/22/17 05:08 PM I got curious  
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bongodriver Offline
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I decided to have another look at my long unistalled copy of BoS as there is support for VR now, I have to say it was a pleasant experience in VR, fun even.

BUT.....

Disappointing to see the general feeling of flight still feels wooden.
No trim on a rotary axis? really? have I missed something? only the 109 stabilizer has an axis control as far as I can see.

The announcement about Bodenplatte and flying circus is what piqued my interest and I was encouraged to see something about Co-op being implemented, wonder how many people got banned on their forum asking for it?

#4390925 - 11/22/17 07:02 PM Re: I got curious [Re: bongodriver]  
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Originally Posted by bongodriver

Disappointing to see the general feeling of flight still feels wooden.
No trim on a rotary axis? really? have I missed something? only the 109 stabilizer has an axis control as far as I can see.


The Macchi 202 also has a vertical stabilizer which can be mapped on a rotary. However the speed in changing trim has been recently significantly reduced, in order to more closely simulate the speed of a pilot acting on the trim wheel in the cockpit, and preventing exploits. I suppose many other a/cs should have the possibility to map an axis control to the trim, but it's not so. Not really a deal breaker for me.

Don't understand what you mean by "wooden" feeling of flight. From the critical tone of your post I don't suppose you mean you get wood from flying Il2 bananadance.
Could you elaborate?

#4390931 - 11/22/17 07:41 PM Re: I got curious [Re: bongodriver]  
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By wooden I mean it's not a very convincing effort, all the aircraft feel exactly the same, I guess my problem is I'm expecting too much from a game. for me the lack of an axis control for trim is almost a deal breaker as in VR the buttons on a HOTAS become precious commodities to map many other important functions and leaves a surplus of redundant rotary controls.

What exploits exist using axis to control a trim? it's how trim works in real life.

#4390936 - 11/22/17 08:15 PM Re: I got curious [Re: bongodriver]  
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Originally Posted by bongodriver

What exploits exist using axis to control a trim? it's how trim works in real life.


Apparently some multiplayer 109 "aces" were mapping the vertical stab AND the elevator to the Y axis of the joystick, achieving an unreal maneuverability and rate of turn. Seems a practice that goes way back to the original IL2 1946.

Re. the "wooden" feeling, for me it's the opposite, especially after the recent FM changes most planes are really fun to fly and have very distinctive characteristics. I too had abandoned BOS and got back only at the end of last year. Was pleasantly surprised, the new direction they have taken seems the right one for me. It will take some more time to repair all the damage of the previous disastrous management of the project, but they are making really good progress and as long as they continue to provide a good product I will keep supporting them.

#4390941 - 11/22/17 08:44 PM Re: I got curious [Re: bongodriver]  
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Why not just make the control map reject a double assignment like that instead?

I'm sure War Thunder has convinced some people too, distinctive characteristics seem to be nothing more than achieving certain numbers but the actual feel is all the same to me, DCS is the only software that seems to create a genuine feel of flight and distinct to each type.

I do however agree that the BOS series is moving in a good direction with recent announcements.

#4390943 - 11/22/17 08:59 PM Re: I got curious [Re: bongodriver]  
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Originally Posted by bongodriver

No trim on a rotary axis? really? have I missed something?


Not bad decision, people will want use that 8 bits (256 "steps) spiking axis of Ch's, Saitek's levers/rotaries for trim and will complain about the result. smile

Quote

...wonder how many people got banned on their forum asking for it?


After they ban all that "cri-cri" people of early days things became a bit more civilized in that forum, but some of braves member of "BoS Defence League" still patrol, caution in steep there. : santa

#4390946 - 11/22/17 09:37 PM Re: I got curious [Re: bongodriver]  
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Terrible decision, not everyone uses a CH trim.

I may be banned from the forum but I can still read it as a guest, it's not any more civilized at all, the 'BOS defence league' keep things unpleasant. they are so binary over there, you only have to express an interest in another product and several will come in a matter of seconds to explain why you are wrong. it must be painful for them to try to be kinder about Clod thought, still makes me chuckle.

#4390987 - 11/23/17 04:15 AM Re: I got curious [Re: bongodriver]  
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I recentlly installed the VP Modpack for Il2 1946. I wanted to refresh my memory relative to the US fighter aircraft that might likely appear in a PTO addition to the BoX series. My finding with the F4F, F6F, F4U and P38 is that flying them 1v1 vs ace AI in A6M or Ki43 is a tedious process and not “fun”. Further, I wondered why forum members longing to fly those US fighters in a BoX PTO would not just load up Il2 1946 to refresh their memories as I had done. I came to the conclusion that a PTO expansion for BoX is unlikely. Not only might the developers risk losing some of their current customer base, but they might also have to deal with disappointed new customers who might refuse to accept that they could not easily defeat Japanese fighter “ace” AI in a 1v1 (assuming flight models equivalent to 1946). I also discovered that the AI for 1946 QM’s is pretty respectable. I set up a 1v1 with me in a Spitfire F Vb and ace AI in an FW190A5. The 190 did BnZ. In one match the AI, with me on its six, entered climb at 9k feet and I chased it to 22,500 ft. Since it could not get enough distance to turn for head to head the AI then dove away and zoom climbed to get out of range. I ask whether 190A5 AI in BoK could perform similar avoidance routines or instead just turn fight until shot down or player runs out of ammo as in RoF. I view the BoX series as a CFS gone Hollywood. There is much glitter but underneath is RoF. I do not own any DCS products but I question how the BoX series could represent an alternative for customers dissatisfied with pace of progress in the DCS shop. Their conversion to BoX will be interesting to follow.

#4391295 - 11/25/17 06:38 AM Re: I got curious [Re: bongodriver]  
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Originally Posted by bongodriver
The announcement about Bodenplatte and flying circus is what piqued my interest and I was encouraged to see something about Co-op being implemented, wonder how many people got banned on their forum asking for it?


Zero

#4391314 - 11/25/17 12:39 PM Re: I got curious [Re: Frogyy2]  
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Originally Posted by Frogyy2
I view the BoX series as a CFS gone Hollywood. There is much glitter but underneath is RoF. I do not own any DCS products but I question how the BoX series could represent an alternative for customers dissatisfied with pace of progress in the DCS shop.


Well, is this or... War Thunder. smile

And DCS (WWII) still a "plane operation simulator" - not a Combat Flight Game. wink

#4391318 - 11/25/17 01:46 PM Re: I got curious [Re: bongodriver]  
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Originally Posted by Sokol1
Originally Posted by Frogyy2
I view the BoX series as a CFS gone Hollywood. There is much glitter but underneath is RoF. I do not own any DCS products but I question how the BoX series could represent an alternative for customers dissatisfied with pace of progress in the DCS shop.


Well, is this or... War Thunder. smile

And DCS (WWII) still a "plane operation simulator" - not a Combat Flight Game. wink




if the planes being operated are combat planes then its a combat flight simulator, you can drop bombs, fire missiles and shoot cannons at hostile targets that shoot back. the limited set of aircraft and theatres does not make it any less of a combat simulator even if some of them don't fit the scenario (109K's over Normandy etc).
it simulates combat in flight = combat flight simulator

BoS doesn't seem to simulate anything, you can't even use trim on a rotary axis or operate systems, everyone bangs on about the 109 trim exploit as an excuse but ignore the fact the 109 is one of the only aircraft with trim on an axis....simply bizarre.
it gives pretty 3d models over pretty 3d terrain representing historical events (also using aircraft that don't belong in cases) deliberately reducing the complexity of full systems modeling = combat flight game, and that's not a criticism, with VR it still has plenty of appeal to me.

Last edited by bongodriver; 11/25/17 01:47 PM.
#4391464 - 11/26/17 01:50 PM Re: I got curious [Re: Frogyy2]  
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Originally Posted by Frogyy2
I view the BoX series as a CFS gone Hollywood. There is much glitter but underneath is RoF. I do not own any DCS products but I question how the BoX series could represent an alternative for customers dissatisfied with pace of progress in the DCS shop. Their conversion to BoX will be interesting to follow.


I use both, BoS and DCS, and enjoy both for what they offer. And in VR both are an incredible experience.

Two very different sims.
DCS - Complex management with full cockpit controls, BoS much easier management with no clickable cockpit switches.
Both are fun to fly and fight in.


DCS takes longer to get arms wrapped around a specific aircraft's operations, and get to competently flying and fighting in it. BoS much less of a learning curve and quicker to get into competently flying and fighting in it. And yes, DCS WWII is also a combat flight sim, I have had many hours of flying combat in the Spit.

Both sims reside on my computer and I enjoy both very much for what they offer. I spend more time in BoS mainly due to it's VR Implementation and how good it runs, along with being able to spend more time just flying and fighting with it.

Our genre is very fortunate to have both 1CGS and ED providing these great sims for us.


Don

EVGA X-79 Dark MB|I-7 4820K@4.50 GHz|EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3|16GB Corsair Dominator PC2133 Ram|Oculus Rift CV1|Virpil T-50 stick, Warthog throttle|MFG Crosswind Pedals

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