It'll be hard to get Normandy's ROI when they concentrate on a non-WWII aircraft after working on Normandy.

This is so patronizing, the whole idea of buying a switchology full module is because it will be a challenge to learn, if I wanted shallow I would fly one of the many arcade sims out there. Think I will pass on this, sigh.

Mick.

Agreed! They should have just said "We're gonna release another half finished product because we need the cash." I'm not sure if this is a Russian business model or if it's Matt Wagner's idea but as a real business owner I'd never get away with doing my job halfway. I guess when you program software you get a pass.

The only reason this is true is because people keep buying it.

Customer satisfaction.

You have 100 customers. 50 of those are more than happy to get early access and learn the systems piecemeal, as and when they are released. The other 50 want to wait for full release.

Why penalise 50 out of 100 and wait for completion prior to release? Release now, make 50 people happy and the other 50, who were willing to wait in any event, will be happy further down the line.

Everyone's happy.

Except that the 'full release' will never arrive and now everyone is not happy, except ED who has 50 people's money.

Are you talking about DCS or something else hypothetically?

Really?

That's news to me. I'll wait and see if that is indeed true. Until then as far as I am concerned 50 happy people is better than no happy people at all.

DCS of course.

HOLY SCHNITZEL, you gotta be kdding me.
I was making all those jokes about the Hornet being released without A-G radar, but #%&*$#, I didn't actually believe they'd be so shameless and do it for real!

@159th_Viper, you guys are truly a bunch of clowns. At least be honest, put it straight and say that your DCS F-18 is massively delayed (again) and you just can't get your head around that radar. That'd still be more acceptable than some patronising #%&*$# about wanting us to learn step by step. What are you, the bloody ministry of education? Just finish what you advertised for once, and sell it WHEN IT'S DONE.

Lol

Why don't you just buy it when it's done and leave the rest of us that want to buy it as an early access release alone?

Is that so difficult to do?

Why would you want to remove the choice of being able to access an early release version?


Oh yes, what makes you think that I have anything to do with ED? I stopped testing for them years ago.

I have no horse in this race, so I don't care to make an effort for folks to see things from my point of view. However I feel I should add that the reason is that once you've paid your money, ED is no longer compelled to actually finish it. For me this seems obvious, but clearly others do not share this point of view.

A wonderful example of the basic problem, and one that Viper is quite familiar with, is that you can start the A-10C and the F-15C on the runway at Batumi and they will be showing different headings. The problem has been known for years and yet it still exists. Why?

50 of those people just want to buzz around in the sky and play Air Quake and don't really care whether the module is complete or not. The other 50 want their full study sim. The first 50 are happy and will continue to be happy because of their style of play. By the time a good semblance of "study" is achieved, they've had their fun, decide the new updates is too complicated for them, and have now bought early access to the next DCS module.

What this group does not realize is that while they are having fun, they kill the fun for the other 50 who want their study sim simply because ED has now had their money and have lost interest in polishing the module.

Making everyone wait for full release is not "penalising" the first 50, it is "encouraging" ED to finish the job before moving on.



Except that you're not looking at the full picture. The current business model gives you 50 happy people, sure, but you neglect to mention the other 50 unhappy people....

Anyway, the analogy is flawed --- this assumes that everyone who has bought into early access (the first 50) are happy with their purchase. This is not true. We've seen a lot of people who have bought in EA and were not happy and up until recently, a lot of them were so dissatisfied with ED that they were not selling these modules on, they were literally giving them away for FREE.



If this were any other company, I would agree with you. However, in ED's case, "early access" is different and it really hurts the label more than people care to admit. There are some companies I would not hesitate to pre-order because their track record and product quality proves that my money is in good hands and that I will have a good product after a reasonable timeframe. None of this exists in ED.



OMG!!! What's happening here??!?!!!??!! Is cichlidfan coming over to the dark side??!!?!? Quick, someone get the cookies!!

Because you and the other 49 fanboys are happily getting ripped off, while ruining it for the remaining 50. Paying top dollar for a near-vaporware product will give ED the necessary funds to ensure it stays incomplete, and move on to the next Beta product that will never be finished, for the very same reasons. It's called a vicious circle.

Look, it's pretty simple:

1. You make a half baked product and sell it with a promise to finish it later on.

2. You make half the money you would have made if you sold the finished product in the first place, which leads you to..

3. Finishing the product will take another XXXX amount of hours, by the end of which, the product will be seen as old, and will only sell a fraction of what it would have sold had it been completed years ago. You can't afford to wait that long for such little money, therefore...

1. You make a half baked product and sell it with a promise to finish it later on.
2 .....
3....
1...
2...
3...



I have fond memories of you or your pal Shi*spawn deleting a number of my posts in a thread and immediately banning me, so that I couldn't reply... Ah, the good ol' ED forum

And what's that to you?

For the amount of time I'll get out of the product at the early release price it's literally cents per hour so it's money well spent. So no, please don't spend your time worrying about me - I'm not getting ripped off at all.

You, judging by the tone of your posts, are resigned to the fact that it's vaporware so it's a definite no- purchase as far as you are concerned. That's fine - you as consumer speak with your wallet: If you're unhappy, no buy.

I win, you win.

And no, I'm not a fanboy. I have little time to put aside getting worked up over a $50 piece of software.....there are too many roses left to smell.

You know, I used to have a helluva lot of respect and time for this Forum back in the day.

Now, not so much. Not much at all.........

And I'm fairly sure that we've seen plenty of examples of this from ED since 2008 when ED released their first module (Black Shark) that was subsequently integrated into the DCS 'World' vision that they had all those years ago......and yet to this day still don't have a road map or idea about how they will actually tackle and achieve it.

Like others are saying, it's the people that are happy to pay for these modules in early access knowing there is every chance that they will never be completed.....they aren't helping anyone, other than ED.......and therefore the cycle will continue. The only thing that is actually being achieved is a dis-jointed 'World' with everything unfinished. Take a step back for a second, are we really seeing 10 years of progress? The A10 and BlackShark still have bugs but aren't in too bad shape....everything else including the same map that we were playing on all those years ago is still unfinished, with no idea of when it will be complete within the 2.5 merge and 3rd parties are still having to update multiple dev streams due to multiple builds.

But yeah, let's throw money at ED for incomplete content so they can continue to make a royal mess of everything they touch.

Interesting how despite my response and bktunder's, you still ask that question. Have you really read our replies?


Sure, it's cents per hour for an incomplete product. Now imagine cents per hour for a COMPLETE product!! Gasp!! Horror!!


And you are clearly happy with paying for incomplete and who-knows-when-it'll-be-finished modules.


No. The only one who wins is ED, and even then, only short term and not the long term.


Not a fanboy, but happy to pay for an incomplete product? Really?

I hope you can tolerate Such levels of irony.................................................

If they can't get the avionics done at release they can always do a simplified version (with all weapons, radar, and systems present just simplified). I know, it will cause a diversion because more time will be needed to code basic avionics and all the testing that comes with it. But I'd happily buy it. Die hard fans can buy it then "upgrade" when the time comes. People who only want the study sim version can wait however long it takes for it to release.

One thing we know for sure is ED was successful before they started chasing the study sim concept, and I have no doubt that a simplified Hornet will get them a return on their investment. $30-35 or so at release, and then the full fidelity version can be $100 or whatever is necessary to turn a profit and release when it is done.

Probably won't happen, but it is nice to think about.

Um, no. The Hornet has been in development since 2014 (??maybe earlier??) and so far all we got is a few "introduction" videos. You yourself speculated that ED only had a limited number of programmers and thus a limited pool of that resource. Assuming that all work thus far on the Hornet has been for a DCS-level product, then doing a simplified version has not been the plan. To do so will put out a FC3 Hornet out sooner rather than later, POSSIBLY, but to do so will put out a DCS Hornet much, much later FOR SURE.

**NOW** you're the one sounding like "stop liking what I don't like" since you're so eager to have an FC3 Hornet that you're willing to throw the DCS Hornet customers under the bus.


Previous success only proves previous success.... please do not claim this as evidence while ignoring everything after DCS A10C and DCS BS2. ED was successful before, they don't seem to be doing very well now.... Some would even argue that they've been on a decline since BEFORE DCS A10C. $100 for DCS Hornet after years of delay and an initial simplified release? That better come with a new map, comprehensive training missions, damn impressive carrier ops, and a good number of campaigns! I can't see how they can justify $100 just for a single airframe....


All due respect, Flogger, but let's keep daydreaming to a minimum....