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#4373251 - 08/08/17 05:47 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Sokol1]  
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Originally Posted by Sokol1
In this way will add complication.

For use MCP3208 ADC the controller firmware need support SPI connection.


It does but we may then have the issue that the Hempstick firmware expects it to use analogue connections instead of SPI. I would have to look into that.

I think getting a new base printed for the FLCS would probably be the "easiest" solution.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4375307 - 08/19/17 04:40 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kb1rd1]  
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I have also received two "Arduino" Pro Micro from China. Could someone point me perhaps to a clear wiring diagram for the FLCS and TQS? I found a number of sketches but I wasn't able to clearly see what needs to go where?

#4378503 - 09/08/17 09:18 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kb1rd1]  
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So I have the FLCS wired up to the Arduio Micro but I'm getting a little confused with the MMJoy2 screens. Could someone share how they have their buttons setup?

#4379085 - 09/12/17 04:24 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kb1rd1]  
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Sorry Tazz . missed those posts above somehow , and haven't had a chance to update this thread since I finished my 1st conversion. Not 100% sure what you need but I am assuming mine is wired differently since I used a Leonardo and of course different digital pins too most likely , but this pic should give you an idea how to setup the handle buttons with the 4021 shift registers , I also have a 74HC165 SR Board I made in mine for extra Buttons and a 12P Rotary switch.

KB

Note my FLCS and TQS are not attached to this computer so not seen in the MMJoy USB window , this is a saved Config I opened...





Attached Files Capture77.JPG
Last edited by Kbird; 09/12/17 04:26 AM.

My FLCS+TQS Conversion here on SimHQ

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4324940/1
#4379111 - 09/12/17 10:21 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kb1rd1]  
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Originally Posted by Kbird
Sorry Tazz . missed those posts above somehow , and haven't had a chance to update this thread since I finished my 1st conversion. Not 100% sure what you need but I am assuming mine is wired differently since I used a Leonardo and of course different digital pins too most likely , but this pic should give you an idea how to setup the handle buttons with the 4021 shift registers , I also have a 74HC165 SR Board I made in mine for extra Buttons and a 12P Rotary switch.


Thanks KB, much appreciated!

Actually I believe that the Arduino Leonardo and Micro are based on the same Atmel ATMega32u4 chipset. The pinouts may be different, with the Micro having fewer pins, but in general one should be able to map between the Leonardo and the Micro with some head scratching.
It's not like these two are completely different boards with different chip sets and capabilities. It's just that the Micro is a lot smaller. Not to be confused with the Pro Micro which uses the same 32u4 chipset but is even smaller. (The Micro has a reset button, the Pro Micro doesn't).

Could you tell me what you are using for the axisi? Are you using hall sensors or TLE5010/11s? Or are you using the old fashioned pots?

#4379165 - 09/12/17 02:42 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kb1rd1]  
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I think thay all use the Atmel ATMega32u4 chipset don't they , just different form factors.... I have Ordered some Pro Micros since they are smaller for a 2nd Conversion when I have time , but am flat out at the moment in the middle of a Contract , so it will have to wait...

I plan to scan and PDF my Conversion Notes ( there's alot smile ) but haven't gotten to it with Work , so I'll try and do that sooner than later for you and Others...

I am using 5010's for the FLCS Axis's but left the Original pots connected too and mounted them to the RH side along with the 12P rotary switch.

KB

Attached Files IMG_20170912_071904.jpg

My FLCS+TQS Conversion here on SimHQ

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4324940/1
#4379333 - 09/13/17 04:48 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kb1rd1]  
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Thanks KB, do you still have a photo showing the internals with the TLE5010 PCBs fitted?
I'm not entirely sure what the best approach is to mount the PCBs and where to attach the magnets.

So any tips would be very welcome :-)

#4379339 - 09/13/17 06:53 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kb1rd1]  
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Actually most of that discussion was on the Main thread, I had a few issues, as it turns out the person making the 5010 Boards was sending out different types of magnets in regard to how they were magnetised , try from page 139 on but basically I used a broken 19mm rare earth magnet to figure out my magnets (pg 141) and learned they were not like Penzija's , who had mounted them end on, so I had to take them off the end of the old Pot shaft and remount them Flat. I was lucky enough to have also have a X-Fighter Stick , so I moved the FLCS handle to that base after modifying it a bit , (as the x-fighter was slightly larger and heavier) so I had extra Pots from that, so was able to reuse the X-Fighter Pots and the FLCS Pots ...or only part of them actually , you need to remove the metal "cap" ( metal is soft , just fold the 4 tabs back up straight) so you have just the shaft and inner black ring , (pg 141) so you can mount the magnet to the end of it, in my case since the magnets didn't have holes I used the ends of some old pen caps to bridge over the exposed metal pin. ( pink and purple in pics)

doing it again I would use some small Ali angle perhaps and mount them with that cos drilling through the centre pin worked but meant dissassembling the stick a few times due to the issues I had.

http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.p...uild-your-own-usb-controller#Post4352998

NOTE IN PICS MAGNETS ARE MOUNTED INCORRECTLY....AT LEAST FOR MY MAGNETS... THEY NEEDED TO BE LAID FLAT...


Attached Files TLE_Dont_do_This.jpgTLE_Pots_ (4).jpgTLE_Pots_ (2).jpg
Last edited by Kbird; 09/13/17 06:54 AM.

My FLCS+TQS Conversion here on SimHQ

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4324940/1
#4379941 - 09/17/17 03:49 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kb1rd1]  
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Just a gentle reminder, the page reference only works if people have the same number of posts set as you do. In my case, the thread you are referring to only has 78 pages and this one only has 9. But linking directly on the post does work. smile

I see that you're using the X-Fighter base. For the FLCS base, I'm looking where best to mount the TLEs. I have noticed that there is quite a bit of force being put on the little green plastic sprocket that gets attached to the CTS 295 pot.
The mass of the pot seems to be used to counter that force. I'm just wondering if "beheading" the pot will leave it too weak to cope with the forces and cause the magnet to wobble? I'm considering instead to glue in an axle through the main axle hole and attach the magnet directly, rather than re-using the existing pot sprocket.

Does anyone have any recommendations on how to best glue those magnets? I've read that hot gluing magnets is out because the heat may actually demagnetize them? What else can we use to get them to stick?

#4379994 - 09/17/17 06:15 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kb1rd1]  
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Usually when i see post 78 , that means I am not signed/logged in , there are 158 pages over there and 17 here when I am...

I used 5min epoxy (araldite) the 1st time I mounted them , 2nd time I used Hot glue as a temp setup to see if I had the orientation correct ... it was but i never re-mounted them with epoxy either.... and all seem fine , though i haven't had time lately to use it much... but I do not beleive the heat from a glue gun would be high enough to demagnetise them ...have not heard of that though admittedly.

You need the sprocket...it is the link from the handle gear/sprocket to the pot....The Pot is locked in it's holder so it can't rotate , so there is no force on the pot itself , just the metal frame/holding plate with the Tab on it ( which stops it rotating) you will need to add plastic/nylon washers to the shaft to stop it sliding back and forwards through the holding plate though since you need to remove the metal "can" and the PCB plate from the pot, I used some UHMW Plastic I has in the Shop for Slides and some thick plastic from a Dishwasher Soap Bottle to adjust them to the right position , so the sprocket and handle inner gear aligned nicely. Don't use metal washers they effect the Magnets as I found out 1st time around....

***Note..... magnets not orientated correctly ...for my magnets anyway... in pics ..these are from before I laid them flat and remounted them with hot glue...

KB

Attached Files TLE_Pots_ (1).jpgTLE_Pots_ (2).jpg

My FLCS+TQS Conversion here on SimHQ

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4324940/1
#4380054 - 09/18/17 05:14 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kb1rd1]  
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Thanks, that's quite a rotary fest you have going on in there! I see that poor old Leonardo is getting the squeeze in here, a Pro Micro certainly has a lot more breathing space.

Regarding not hot gluing magnets, I picked up the warning from here: https://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp?p=sticky-business-how-to-glue-neodymum-magnets

Quote

Do not use a hot glue gun on neodymium magnets. While this adhesive works really well on so many surfaces, the high temperatures can demagnetize your magnets. Even the so-called low temperature hot melts are well above the Maximum Operating Temperatures of most neodymium magnets. Don't do it!


Considering that I have no experiencing in attaching magnets onto anything but my fridge door, I thought I'd better take notice. So hence my question ... if not hot glue, then what would work? But if hot glue works then I guess it should be fine? Speaking of which, when using these magnets - how far a distance should my FLCS always be from my external hard drives? Just asking smile

Still, as the main stick shaft and sprocket have a 1:1 ratio, I still wonder if the sprocket is required or if I can mount an extension to the main shafts instead. I have one completely busted pot that I don't mind using but I would feel somewhat reluctant to take my functioning CTS 295 pots apart when they still work. smile

#4380061 - 09/18/17 07:20 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kb1rd1]  
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It was definitely a squeeze play with a Leonardo smile I ended up removing the 2.1mm power socket ( as it will never be used ) and changing the Headers to the right angle type.

The Pot isn't physically destroyed , in fact i think you could probably remove the magnet from the end if needed and reassemble it but you could likely find an old joystick locally and get a few spares from it, the CH sticks had good Pots too.

I guess next time I will use a quality 100% silicon or perhaps construction adhesive since I use both at work and either should be readily cut to remove again if needed. I was un-aware the temp for demagnetization is as low as 80 DegC for some Neodymium magnets.....however in reading that, I think it means if the magnet is at that temp. rather than a one time heating to 80 degC , a 1 time heating to 310 degC might do it though..... ie :

Rare Earth magnets have a high resistance to demagnetization, unlike most other types of magnets. They will not lose their magnetization around other magnets or if dropped. They will however, begin to lose strength if they are heated above their maximum operating temperature, which is 176°F (80°C) for standard N grades. They will completely lose their magnetization if heated above their Curie temperature, which is 590°F (310°C) for standard N grades. Some of our magnets are of high temperature material, which can withstand higher temperatures without losing strength.


My FLCS+TQS Conversion here on SimHQ

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4324940/1
#4380154 - 09/18/17 08:02 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kb1rd1]  
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This F-22 PRO (on sales in il2sturmovik.com) receive a VKB Black Mamba gimbal ("tick" model), Arduino PRO Micro+MMjoy2 and TLE5010 sensors.

[Linked Image]

See how close magnets is from sensor:

https://s26.postimg.org/v7rzxgsux/post-47334-0-42841400-1502466196.jpg

No reason for keep this 1:1 gears if will use contactless sensor - will generate play that can disturbe sensor readings.
In original gimbal this gears is used for make the assembly gimbal + pot less width.

I am not fan of use knobs or switches on joystick base, is not practical to use and ruin their look. wink






#4380199 - 09/19/17 08:10 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kb1rd1]  
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Thanks Sokol, I'll have a close look on how this has been put together. I would prefer to keep the outside of the FLCS and TQS as original as possible, except for the USB wiring. (And the mouse-thing replacement). I'll just need to get them in the mail and then see how I can best go about mounting them.

By the way, does anyone know how/where to wire in a status LED, just like the one that's onboard the Arduino Micro? I know where and how to attach a reset switch (I'm planning to use the original Run/Download switch for that) but I still want to be able to see the blinking LED light when it goes into firmware loading mode, without having to take the FLCS and TQS apart again? Unfortunately, when I google for it, I find a million tutorials on how to make a LED blink and that's not what I'm after at all smile

Last edited by Tazz; 09/19/17 08:14 AM.
#4382297 - 09/30/17 09:30 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kb1rd1]  
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Originally Posted by Kbird

It was definitely a squeeze play with a Leonardo smile I ended up removing the 2.1mm power socket ( as it will never be used ) and changing the Headers to the right angle type.

The Pot isn't physically destroyed , in fact i think you could probably remove the magnet from the end if needed and reassemble it but you could likely find an old joystick locally and get a few spares from it, the CH sticks had good Pots too.

I guess next time I will use a quality 100% silicon or perhaps construction adhesive since I use both at work and either should be readily cut to remove again if needed. I was un-aware the temp for demagnetization is as low as 80 DegC for some Neodymium magnets.....however in reading that, I think it means if the magnet is at that temp. rather than a one time heating to 80 degC , a 1 time heating to 310 degC might do it though..... ie :

Rare Earth magnets have a high resistance to demagnetization, unlike most other types of magnets. They will not lose their magnetization around other magnets or if dropped. They will however, begin to lose strength if they are heated above their maximum operating temperature, which is 176°F (80°C) for standard N grades. They will completely lose their magnetization if heated above their Curie temperature, which is 590°F (310°C) for standard N grades. Some of our magnets are of high temperature material, which can withstand higher temperatures without losing strength.


I needed some more Hot Glue for my Gun ...it is so old even Google couldn't find any info about it or the Temps used but the Stanley Glues I got say 210°C (410°F) is the high setting, and the low is only 135°C (275°F) so , going on that link you provided I think is should be fine to use Hot Glue for attaching magnets.

KB

Attached Files IMG_20170920_192235.jpg

My FLCS+TQS Conversion here on SimHQ

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4324940/1
#4382313 - 09/30/17 11:40 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kb1rd1]  
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I have updated posts 1-6 of the Thread with a few pics and Documents from the Original Manual and some I made for myself as well as My Conversion Notes which I scanned to PDF in Post 6
but if there are images of anything in particular you can think of let me know and I'll see what I have...

here :
http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4324042/f16-flcs-tqs-original-usb-conversion

http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.p...-tqs-original-usb-conversion#Post4324075

Last edited by Kbird; 09/30/17 11:42 PM.

My FLCS+TQS Conversion here on SimHQ

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4324940/1
#4382882 - 10/03/17 05:45 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kb1rd1]  
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I started a new TQS conversion this weekend. Before I started messing with the grip, i made sure to write down how thrustmaster connected stuff.

Anywhere you see a color/number combination, it is from the cable end connector, with pin 1 in the upper left, pin 2 lower left and pin 14 lower right.

Cable Pin connections in this orientation, wire color:
1 Dogfight Forward - Brown
2 Speedbrake Aft - Red
3 Dogfight Aft - Orange
4 Return Line for Switches - Yellow
5 Nub Switch near Cursor Control - Green
6 Wire to RANGE pot right side - Blue
7 ANT pot wiper (AXIS) - Purple
8 RANGE pot wiper (AXIS) - Gray
9 Speedbrake Forward - White
10 Range knob push switch - Black
11 Comm Left - Brown
12 Comm Right - Red
13 Comm Down - Orange
14 Comm Up - Yellow

Obviously, it's not ripe for a direct conversion, because the pots and the buttons connect.

Easiest and fastest way I see to do a conversion is to:

Remove the bare cheater wire on the RANGE pot/switch.
Move the Blue/Yellow wires from the left side of the RANGE pot to the left side of the RANGE Switch
Move the brown jumper wire from the left side of the RANGE switch to the left side of the RANGE pot
Add a single wire from +5V to the left side of the RANGE pot. Blue 6 becomes the Ground. The Brown wires will then
pass +5v and Gnd to the ANT pot.

That's two cuts and three solder actions.

That direct connection setup gives you 10 switches in 10 Columns and 1 Row and no need for diodes.

This obviously isn't perfect.... You lose the cursor control completely and with the three AXIS inputs you're giving up board inputs that you could do other stuff with.

The question is are you replacing cursor with an analog stick, or a micro joystick made of switches. That should help you decide to split the button inputs into a matrix or to retain the original 10/1 system for buttons.

73

SM

Attached Files IMG_4074.JPGIMG_4075.JPGIMG_4085.JPGIMG_0003Mod.jpgThrustmaster TQS_schem.jpgIMG_0004mod.jpg
#4382896 - 10/03/17 07:01 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: SolderMonkey]  
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Originally Posted by SolderMonkey


The question is are you replacing cursor with an analog stick, or a micro joystick made of switches. That should help you decide to split the button inputs into a matrix or to retain the original 10/1 system for buttons.



Depends on the use planed for this TQS, analog (axis) mini-stick* will have practical use for jets target system or DCS Ka-50 Shkval, or maybe 6DOF in space flight games.

A HAT (buttons) could be used for a more variety of functions in several planes

* MMjoy2 firmware allow set this mini-stick axis to send key press.

Analog mini-stick is the more cheap solution, since they are plenty available in several places (e.g. eBay), a 4 way HAT is difficult/expensive (Digikey) to find, but could be canibalised from old /cheap joystick.

#4382965 - 10/03/17 10:33 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kb1rd1]  
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I went with a 5 way hat similar to this http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Way-Direction-Tactile-Switch-SMD-Joystick-/191655057727 You're right - I did have to cut and file a small piece of perfboard to fit in the old hole and i have a diode matrix to build down on the main board. Six contacts to solder and a little epoxy underneath just for good measure. The nice thing about the tactile switch, is that with a little Shoe Goo, I get to reuse the original red eraser head thing.

Attached Files IMG_4094.JPGIMG_4099.JPG
Last edited by SolderMonkey; 10/03/17 10:34 PM. Reason: I no can spell
#4383023 - 10/04/17 05:22 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kb1rd1]  
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Thanks SM , good info the TQS ....is a whole lot more work that the FLCS I found . It wasn't till the 3rd time I think , pulling it apart I noticed the bare wire on the Range switch/pot , that was info I hadn't seen anywhere else but I think I ended up rewiring the ANT and RNG Pots like normal pots and the push buttton Switch too.

I used the 4 way Hat out of X-Fighter Stick ( which is 4 tac switches really) I canabilized for the Gimbal for the TQS Nub button , but I think you remember that wiring diagram you did for me.... the X-fighter Handle's buttons went into the base of the X-Fighter and the FLCS Handle was attached to the X-Fighter base instead , it's wider and more stable I found and the Gimbal is stiffer than the Original FLCS one.


My FLCS+TQS Conversion here on SimHQ

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4324940/1
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