#4378432 - 09/07/17 09:31 PM
Re: DCS: Garmin GPS
[Re: bkthunder]
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 723
jens198
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 723
Nuremberg, Germany
|
Maybe they did some work for a military contract and it's some kind of byproduct?
Jens
"It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue."
|
|
#4378451 - 09/07/17 10:41 PM
Re: DCS: Garmin GPS
[Re: DBcoop7]
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 772
Johnny_Redd
Member
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 772
|
What do you use this product for in game? I know its GPS but what is their intent with the aircraft? Is it just fluff? Its an excuse. Its so they can say "we havent fixed X because we were developing this #%&*$#" Its not like they dont have many other things on their to do list that have been paid for already. "Nah were not going to fix this yet because our sales have shown that that product had reached its sales peak a long time ago. So we'll develop a freakin GPS see how that sells, if it doesnt sell well we'll charge them for the use of the F10 map."
DCS Kickstarter Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable." Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
|
|
#4378457 - 09/07/17 11:12 PM
Re: DCS: Garmin GPS
[Re: bkthunder]
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,840
ricnunes
Senior Member
|
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,840
Portugal
|
I can't hardly wait for DCS: Left Wing for fixed wing aircraft as long as I don't have to pay for each DCS aircraft And after this I'll obviously and eagerly wait for the their next module, DCS: Right Wing for fixed aircraft...
|
|
#4378485 - 09/08/17 03:19 AM
Re: DCS: Garmin GPS
[Re: ricnunes]
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 153
EjectEject
SBD
|
SBD
Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 153
USA
|
I can't hardly wait for DCS: Left Wing for fixed wing aircraft as long as I don't have to play for each DCS aircraft And after this I'll obviously and eagerly wait for the their next module, DCS: Right Wing for fixed aircraft... As long as you just want to turn right, you're golden.
|
|
#4378498 - 09/08/17 07:10 AM
Re: DCS: Garmin GPS
[Re: EjectEject]
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,922
Paradaz
Senior Member
|
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,922
UK
|
I can't hardly wait for DCS: Left Wing for fixed wing aircraft as long as I don't have to play for each DCS aircraft And after this I'll obviously and eagerly wait for the their next module, DCS: Right Wing for fixed aircraft... As long as you just want to turn right, you're golden. Although you might have a fighting chance of flying level if you buy the DCS: Ailleron module, I'm only interested in the 'DCS: Rivets and Bolts' to ensure my chosen airframes don't fall apart on take-off.
On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
|
|
#4378572 - 09/08/17 08:59 PM
Re: DCS: Garmin GPS
[Re: bkthunder]
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
|
I can't wait to see the "but this product did not interfere with 2.5 release!" responses... they seem to be a bit slow with this thread....
- Ice
|
|
#4378649 - 09/09/17 08:21 AM
Re: DCS: Garmin GPS
[Re: Noodle]
|
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 207
bkthunder
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 207
|
I haven't clicked the link yet, so I don't know what's on the other side. But I'll say this much, the U-2 flies with a handheld Garmin unit literally rubberbanded to one of the canopy-mounted mirrors, so it's not as out of place as one might think. Also, I'm predominantly flying the F-5 in NTTR (DCS), and it is a royal pain in the ass to fly "raw data" out there without spilling out of the assigned airspace. The Navy F-5s have been updated with integrated GPS and moving map (EHSI) so, I really like the idea of having a GPS add-on. Noodle, I totally agree with you that this GPS is a very good addition, realistic and useful etc. In fact I was looking forward to it. However, the reason why many people have concerns has nothing to do with the actual GPS itself, but rather with the business model. Take FSX for example: - it's a GA sim - for ~$50 (upon release) you got a bunch of medium fidelity aircraft - The whole world, covered in very acceptable (for the time) detail - Nav aids, ATC, AI traffic, radios, a full simulation of a garmin GPS + glass cockpit - Dynamic weather In other words, even without any addons, you have a GA sim with all the tools you need to actually perform a pretty realistic VFR or IFR flight. It does what it says on the box. Now take DCS with FC3 addon (this should put it roughly on par with the FSX example): - it claims to be a combat simulator - you get the sim for free, but let's say you have to at least buy FC3 to have a bunch of medium fidelity aircraft - A theater of operations, covered in acceptable detail - Low-fidelity weapons (A-A missiles, bombs and rockets with no blast radius damage etc) - No ATC, extremely basic (useless) AI / wingmen / awacs - No campaigns - Dynamic weather So, DCS clearly lacks some of the fundamental parts that constitute a combat flight simulator, and yet we have to pay for extra stuff (or fluff). Makes you think, if they ever make proper A-A missiles, how much are they gonna charge? "How much is the bean soup?" "It's $40 sir, and I highly recommend it, it's our specialty" "Sounds good! I'll have the bean soup then." "Sure sir, here's your plate with the hot water, already salted, and 2 chickpeas! Oh, by the way, you get the spoon for free! if you want we also have one slice of garlic bread for $14.99" "I sure like garlic bread, but I don't see any beans in my bean soup!" "Don't worry sir, the beans are cooking. Would you like to add some pepper to the soup in the meantime? That's only $14.99 if you add it now!"
|
|
#4378656 - 09/09/17 10:01 AM
Re: DCS: Garmin GPS
[Re: bkthunder]
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
|
I don't think you have to explain this to Noodle, bkthunder All he's saying is that the Garmin module is useful and that it's used IRL in non-GPS equipped aircraft. The "bigger picture" of this module being released now in the current ED situation is another matter altogether.
- Ice
|
|
#4378682 - 09/09/17 02:41 PM
Re: DCS: Garmin GPS
[Re: bkthunder]
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,840
ricnunes
Senior Member
|
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,840
Portugal
|
Noodle, I totally agree with you that this GPS is a very good addition, realistic and useful etc. In fact I was looking forward to it. However, the reason why many people have concerns has nothing to do with the actual GPS itself, but rather with the business model.
Take FSX for example: - it's a GA sim - for ~$50 (upon release) you got a bunch of medium fidelity aircraft - The whole world, covered in very acceptable (for the time) detail - Nav aids, ATC, AI traffic, radios, a full simulation of a garmin GPS + glass cockpit - Dynamic weather
In other words, even without any addons, you have a GA sim with all the tools you need to actually perform a pretty realistic VFR or IFR flight. It does what it says on the box.
Now take DCS with FC3 addon (this should put it roughly on par with the FSX example):
- it claims to be a combat simulator - you get the sim for free, but let's say you have to at least buy FC3 to have a bunch of medium fidelity aircraft - A theater of operations, covered in acceptable detail - Low-fidelity weapons (A-A missiles, bombs and rockets with no blast radius damage etc) - No ATC, extremely basic (useless) AI / wingmen / awacs - No campaigns - Dynamic weather
So, DCS clearly lacks some of the fundamental parts that constitute a combat flight simulator, and yet we have to pay for extra stuff (or fluff). Makes you think, if they ever make proper A-A missiles, how much are they gonna charge?
I agree with pretty much everything you said except for the "no campaigns" part in FC3 and also in the "free DCS World" (with the Su-25T). - FC3 basically brings a campaign for each aircraft (F-15C, A-10A, Mig-29S, Su-25 and Su-27) and two campaigns for the Su-33. - "Free DCS World" brings one campaign for the Su-25T. But again, I agree with the rest of what you said.
|
|
#4378689 - 09/09/17 03:05 PM
Re: DCS: Garmin GPS
[Re: bkthunder]
|
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 85
Exorcet
Junior Member
|
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 85
|
Now take DCS with FC3 addon (this should put it roughly on par with the FSX example):
- it claims to be a combat simulator - you get the sim for free, but let's say you have to at least buy FC3 to have a bunch of medium fidelity aircraft - A theater of operations, covered in acceptable detail - Low-fidelity weapons (A-A missiles, bombs and rockets with no blast radius damage etc) - No ATC, extremely basic (useless) AI / wingmen / awacs - No campaigns - Dynamic weather
So, DCS clearly lacks some of the fundamental parts that constitute a combat flight simulator, and yet we have to pay for extra stuff (or fluff). Makes you think, if they ever make proper A-A missiles, how much are they gonna charge? This is fair critique of DCS, the combat side is pretty shallow and as a mission builder I run into the issue all the time. I'd agree with the statement that DCS isn't truly a combat simulator, but I still think the product offers what is claimed. The issue is there is no strict definition for a combat simulator. DCS offers combat, it's just bad at it. Not something to cheer at obviously, but it doesn't fall into the category of deceptive marketing. As far as the business model, the reason why there are people failing to understand the negativity toward the GPS (or at least why I'm having a hard time understanding it) is because it doesn't hint at the sim being divided into minute parts that are going to be sold for extraordinary prices. The only real point of concern for me is if you need to buy it multiple times. That would be a very bad deal and not really make much sense. Were that to happen I would understand your viewpoint a little more. As a one time purchase, it falls in line with other products. Take FC3 standalone to represent the price of PFM (~$15), the GPS add on is $15. Together that's $30, which is less than the cost of some ,modules. Throw in another $25 or so for ASM (this "price" would probably vary a bit depending on the module complexity) and then you have something around the cost of a full module. Let's also not forget all the good deals that ED provided. 2.5 is free but originally required a map purchase to take full advantage of. ED changed this with the updated default map. AFM missiles were provided free, though ED didn't take the guidance side of this into account which really hurt this effort. The alpha branch has introduced AI improvements for free and ATC is planned, although info is TBA. I suppose you could take this as a sign that ED's is changing their product strategy, but it also doesn't look much different from a regular product arrival. "How much is the bean soup?" "It's $40 sir, and I highly recommend it, it's our specialty" "Sounds good! I'll have the bean soup then." "Sure sir, here's your plate with the hot water, already salted, and 2 chickpeas! Oh, by the way, you get the spoon for free! if you want we also have one slice of garlic bread for $14.99" "I sure like garlic bread, but I don't see any beans in my bean soup!" "Don't worry sir, the beans are cooking. Would you like to add some pepper to the soup in the meantime? That's only $14.99 if you add it now!"
The caveat I'd add here is that the server informed you that if you ordered now it wouldn't be ready.
|
|
#4378730 - 09/09/17 06:24 PM
Re: DCS: Garmin GPS
[Re: Exorcet]
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
|
Well, the server intially told you the meal would be ready in 10 minutes.... however, this happened about an hour ago. When you ask the server now when your bean soup would be ready, he just shrugs his shoulders and says "due to hostile customer responses, we no longer give estimates on how long it will take before their food is ready."DCS offers combat, it's just bad at it. Not something to cheer at obviously, but it doesn't fall into the category of deceptive marketing. Indeed, just as Ace Combat and HAWX are also combat flight simulators! Take FC3 standalone to represent the price of PFM (~$15), the GPS add on is $15. Together that's $30, which is less than the cost of some ,modules. Throw in another $25 or so for ASM (this "price" would probably vary a bit depending on the module complexity) and then you have something around the cost of a full module. Not sure what you're getting at here... but at this point, we're not even sure if the GPS will work with other aircraft yet, just the Mi-8. Let's also not forget all the good deals that ED provided. 2.5 is free but originally required a map purchase to take full advantage of. ED changed this with the updated default map. AFM missiles were provided free, though ED didn't take the guidance side of this into account which really hurt this effort. The alpha branch has introduced AI improvements for free and ATC is planned, although info is TBA. I suppose you could take this as a sign that ED's is changing their product strategy, but it also doesn't look much different from a regular product arrival. 2.5 = irrelevant as it's not out yet AFM = missiles still broken though AI improvements = so.... fixing broken stuff means we should be grateful to the devs now? ATC = irrelevant as it's not out yet Again, I'm not entirely sure what your point is here. ED fixing things is not a "good deal," every software and game company worth the time of day does this. It is expected of them. If they were to release DCS: Su-33 along the same fidelity as DCS A10C and make this new module free to all the own the Su-33 standalone or FC3, then **THAT** is a good deal!
- Ice
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|