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#4375450 - 08/20/17 06:25 AM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Si89_Studios]  
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Brit44 'Aldo' Offline
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You are not making an engineering software, you are creating a game that simulates the experience. So keep in mind, as you make realism sacrifices for game play reasons, to be cautious about revealing exact details how your "sim" works. What is important is the "feel". If you reveal the magic, the illusion is spoiled.

A car analogy: People love there sexy looking sports car if it can hold the road better then they can drive. They hate it as soon as they learn the suspension is made from VW Beetle parts. You will never make Massa say your car is best.

wink But, do not ignore the rivet counters. If they find a problem, then the chances are it is hurting your "sim" mode of play.

Armoured is not the quick thrill of FPS or the fanciful glory of the fly guy. It is a hard genera to make a buck with as a recreational software..


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#4375454 - 08/20/17 10:08 AM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Si89_Studios]  
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33lima Offline
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OK just for me to be a bit more constructive, by way of suggesting (what I think are) good ideas and less as Ssnake described it weeding out (what I think are) bad ideas, if I was going to make a game of WW2 tank combat, this is what it would be like.

Working title, or sub-title below the snappy one - 'Tank Platoon Leader'

The player - SP or MP - is cast in the role of the leader of a platoon of 3-5 WW2 tanks or SP guns. Focussing on a role is important, because role-playing draws the player in as well as giving game design its objectives, scope and boundaries. And this role provides the best combination of tactical challenges.

The basic mission type - SP or MP - is the type of mission which a WW2 tank platoon would be given - advance to contact, attack, defence, maybe withdrawal, standard stuff. The most common mission would be - like those featured in stock Steel Fury - Kharkov 1942 - a daylight attack by a mixed tank-infantry force of about re-inforced company strength with artillery/mortar support, and on occasion air support.

In both MP and SP, the player would command his own tank and control the rest of his AI platoon. Probably, he could do this from the gunner sight if he wanted, for gameplay reasons, and play a sort of combined TC/gunner role. But he needs to be able to play just as TC and have a good AI gunner whose fire he can direct. Likewise, driver & loader. Likewise, he needs decent AI crews in his other 2-4 tanks.

For SP, the other tank (or infantry) platoons that are involved in the mission are 'all AI'. Instead of having an MP player in charge like the player's platoon, the other platoons follow the mission-maker's script.

For MP, the players can choose to command any of the other (AFV) platoons that are involved in the operation. One of the players acts as company commander, ideally with a smaller platoon (the HQ element). The fun comes from co-operating and following (preferably realistic) command and control, with players using voice messaging to issue and acknowledge orders, and send sitreps, contact reports etc, responding to the developing battle in real time. If you listen to some of the Steel Beasts MP battles - preferably the ones with players who understand and follow realistic battle drill and radio voice procedure, engaging brain before putting mouth into gear etc - you will see and hear this sort of thing in action.

In both SP and MP, if your tank gets KO'ed, you could take over one of your other platoon tanks, much as in real life.

I would forget about tanks crewed by several players. That is ok for a tank CREW simulator but it is a distraction from doing one thing well and the thing that would be most immersive, realistic and fun is a tank PLATOON LEADER sim.

SP would have 'themed mission set campaigns' like Panzer Elite's, set in N Africa 1941-42 and NW Europe 1944-45 - anything more like Tunis, Italy, Ostfront, NW Europe 1940, is icing on the cake. Plus map and mission editors and some sort of quick battle generator.

If there was enough development time, the player(s) could have their own 3d figure as in OFP/ARMA/IFL'44 who could dismount from the tank, eg to scout on foot, guide your tank by hand signals, bale out and take over another platoon tank, or maybe even engage in a bit of dismounted combat.

An another 'nice to have' feature would be the ability to command non-AFV platoons in a comparable way, especially dismounted or mech infantry. Or act at the company team's Forward Observation Officer.

Though dating from the 1970s, this British Army training film illustrates how my ideal tanksim would look, sound and feel, for the player:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zo5f6l-ZP4


Last edited by 33lima; 08/20/17 10:31 AM.

SimHQ Battle of Britain II screenshots thread
CombatAce Mission Reports
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#4375549 - 08/21/17 01:00 AM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Si89_Studios]  
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marko1231123 Offline
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I am a long time armour sim enthusiast.
As such i have been looking for a updated and more comprehensive WW2 that's currently available.
Will watch this with great interest
Good luck with the project.
I do agree with previous posts.I would focus on the warfighting and not the logistics and engineering aspects

#4375786 - 08/22/17 02:01 AM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Si89_Studios]  
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Si89_Studios Offline
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Hello Brit44 'Aldo'!

You are talking about, maybe, one of our harder challenges! You analogy was great haha Thank you!


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#4375787 - 08/22/17 02:14 AM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Si89_Studios]  
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Si89_Studios Offline
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Hello 33lima biggrin

The tactical feature will be well observed when the radio communication is implemented. These kind of posts, like leaders of platoons will be achieved by courses and leveling up. You have described the kind of gameplay of Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising 2 and everything you said is planned! We are going to post a new video soon, because the multiplayer system is under heavy test and programmings biggrin About the crew system, I really want that in the game, but only max 4 per tank (Commander, Driver, Shooter and Radio operator/MG operator, no reloader required, just a animated player when there is nobody in this position) .

I am looking forward to make the desert landscapes and combats haha

"If there was enough development time, the player(s) could have their own 3d figure as in OFP/ARMA/IFL'44 who could dismount from the tank, eg to scout on foot, guide your tank by hand signals, bale out and take over another platoon tank, or maybe even engage in a bit of dismounted combat." This is in the plans since the fps sim feature will be implemented... but it will be easier to play, differently of IF of OFP , both are not intuitive or friendly for new players, we will be different!

Thank you again! biggrin

Last edited by Si89_Studios; 08/26/17 08:16 PM.

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#4375788 - 08/22/17 02:16 AM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Si89_Studios]  
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Si89_Studios Offline
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Hello marko1231123 !

I hope we can make what you were looking for (and me too hahah this is the why I am doing that)!
Thank you biggrin I hope make you proud!

I want to put the logotype of SimHQ in the beginning of the game! If the owner of the forum give me the authorization smile


"All Quality Springs From The Truth"

www.si89studios.com

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#4376789 - 08/28/17 09:59 PM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Si89_Studios]  
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Si89_Studios Offline
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What do you think about the firtst version of the login menu ?


[img]https://scontent.fbsb8-1.fna.fbcdn....d8d463b139f44453216e725c&oe=5A5DBC29[/img]


"All Quality Springs From The Truth"

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#4376830 - 08/29/17 05:22 AM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Si89_Studios]  
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Ssnake Offline
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I don't know if you want to make a human skull a part of your product logo.
While funny, here are a lot of the reasons why that is a bad idea.

#4376849 - 08/29/17 10:41 AM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Ssnake]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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Originally Posted by Ssnake
I don't know if you want to make a human skull a part of your product logo.
While funny, here are a lot of the reasons why that is a bad idea.



Well for the German and Austrian markets at least. It's not a big deal in any other country.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4376863 - 08/29/17 12:31 PM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Si89_Studios]  
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Ssnake Offline
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Skulls are never associated with anything positive - death, poison, beheadings, and pirates (which may be fun, but still are the baddies).
You may consider a certain demographic as your target audience that overlaps with those who like Metallica and Zombies, but at the same time you already say that 99% of the population are not your target audience.

I'm not saying that you should never use a skull in your product logo. All I'm saying is that it creates a hurdle towards impulse buyers and a general mainstream audience. That may be just fine and dandy depending on what your marketing plan is, but at least you should be aware of it and make it a conscious decision, for better or for worse.

#4376865 - 08/29/17 01:53 PM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Si89_Studios]  
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I used to own and ride a Harley and skulls are big in the Harley world, skull on gas tanks, saddle bags, foot pegs, clutch covers etc. I never could understand that.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4376866 - 08/29/17 01:54 PM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Si89_Studios]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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Some Navy fighter squadrons have skulls in their insignia. No problem there. smile


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4376887 - 08/29/17 03:25 PM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Si89_Studios]  
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Ssnake Offline
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Neither Navy fighter squadrons nor Harleys represent even a significant minority of the population; they may want to borrow from the romantic pirate/renegade charisma, or they are trying to come across as people to be feared. Like I wrote - you can do it, but make sure you know what you're doing rather than blundering on it because you didn't have a plan in the first place. Few things will be as recurrent as the product logo - if you manage to turn it into a strong brand. The perfect logo conveys the spirit of the product.

#4376913 - 08/29/17 06:00 PM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Ssnake]  
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Si89_Studios Offline
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Originally Posted by Ssnake
I don't know if you want to make a human skull a part of your product logo.
While funny, here are a lot of the reasons why that is a bad idea.


Ssnake, good observation! We are going to think about that!


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#4376918 - 08/29/17 06:14 PM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Si89_Studios]  
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33lima Offline
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Is the plan, then, that you must be logged in, to play - like Rise of Flight for example? Some may prefer not to have to do this (RoF has an ofline mode). Some even today may have poor connections.

'1945' implies a time limit which could deter some from buying. You could at least go '1944-45' for an overlay as at your two current tanks fought in that period, the Tiger I (less zimmerit) earlier of course. The battles fought in 1944 - or even earlier - were probably as or more exciting or interesting, if not more desperate for the Germans, that those fought in 1945.

If you are not worried about people who aren't already armour enthusiants, the close-up of part of a Tiger may not be a problem, especially as that is probably the most recognised WW2 tank. But there is probably a good reason that most tanksims have a more or less complete tank on their DVD case or main screen. IIRC.

The combination of heavy metal style logo with a detailed shot is a bit harsh, but maybe that is the effect you want.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet but now that I see the name, 'Steel' is a bit - well, monosyllabic and idiosyncratic, not especially effective on its own, or even as a sub-heading to the name of the parent game. Steel what? The word is already well used in tanksims. So is 'Panzer' but at least it is more evocative and descriptive. Something like 'Fire and Steel' has more of a ring to it, without getting too melodramatic. Tri- or bi-syllabic is usually good. Monosyllabic could be somebody clearing their throat.

Maybe have a little competition for the best name? I would not choose the winner by poll, though, a hostage to fortune and it's your call.


SimHQ Battle of Britain II screenshots thread
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"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." (attributed to Marcus Aurelius)

#4376942 - 08/29/17 08:28 PM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: 33lima]  
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Si89_Studios Offline
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Hello 33lima biggrin

The year was only for provisional pourposes, we are going to implement all the ww2 years, and the vehicles will be available according to the year (in war mode). The Tiger tank, in the game , will not be easily deployed in the war mode, because the resources needed to deploy it will be high.

The name Steel is because we are going to launch first the version of the game which there are only tanks to play, since the FPS gameplay will not be available in this time. In this way, we can launch the game in parts and launch as soon as possible. When the FPS is included, the name will be "Blood" instead "Steel". This is a way of identify the alpha versions, and only.

I think the poll's idea great, about a lot of things, since the focuses is simulation. I am going to record and upload a video maybe today about the current progress biggrin

Thank you, you are being helpful as usual!


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#4376994 - 08/30/17 06:23 AM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Si89_Studios]  
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Si89_Studios Offline
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Here we go!
Here is the video I've uploaded today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YerfvBYSLM8

Almost nothing done these last days is visual, we are working in the multiplayer system and optimization (like LOD and Occlusion Culling).

Tell me your opinion please smile

Thanks

Last edited by Si89_Studios; 08/30/17 06:24 AM.

"All Quality Springs From The Truth"

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#4376997 - 08/30/17 06:49 AM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Si89_Studios]  
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At 9:20, cant angle doesn't seem to play a role in the trajectory.

Also, it would be a courtesy of yours to cut the video to elements that you wanted to text/where you're asking for public opinion. Watching 20 minutes of a tank driving through an empty landscape is an activity for people without a job, or maybe some exotic forms of WW2 themed zen meditation. If you can't spare the time to edit, I can't spare the time to watch it in full.

#4377006 - 08/30/17 08:45 AM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Ssnake]  
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Si89_Studios Offline
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Originally Posted by Ssnake
At 9:20, cant angle doesn't seem to play a role in the trajectory.


What do you mean?

The bullet weight, exit velocity, aerodynamics (drag etc) are precisely considered... There is an rigidbody accelerated to the right speed and right aerodynamics to give this effect... (different than what I expected, in the beggining) ... The zoom make the bullet trajectory seem more curved than it is...

About the long video, I have no video edit skills to cut the important parts, I have updated and edited only in youtube while coding :P

Thanks again! smile


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#4377007 - 08/30/17 08:56 AM Re: Baptism By Fire - A integrated simulation game [Re: Si89_Studios]  
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Ssnake Offline
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Wikipedia/Cant

If your vehicle isn't leveled but tilted sideways on a cross slope, rounds will fall short, and to the left (or right) of the crosshair center line; not what happened in the video. That's why shooting ghetto style misses at all but the shortest distances (cant angle = 90°).

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