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#4375366 - 08/19/17 04:42 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Snoopy_476th]  
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Originally Posted by Snoopy_476th
As to why I left the ED tester team it had nothing to do with the Hawk, I left because I was asked to be a tester specifically for the A-10C and ED stopped fixing bugs or things that were just wrong with true module. No reason to give ED free labor if they don't listen. Anything more than that and I'd be violation of the NdA.


There you go, folks!


- Ice
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#4375440 - 08/20/17 03:47 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Good to see more satisfied customers of VEAO coming out in support of their favorite 3rd party developer.....or not


[Linked Image]

Source

Being the Unofficial Tester that I self proclaim.....Let me answer some of those questions.

VEAO's problems began the moment Director Chris Ells head swelled on 'a night out on the piss' (Aussie slang for having a few drinks too many) over dinner with his right hand man Pete AKA P-Man and decided to propose to ED a release of an aircraft that did the rounds on online Airshows. (Feel free to jump on anytime to correct me Chris as you have done in the past in this very thread) The downhill spiral happened when ED's very own moderators came out in support of the 1st 3rd party developer to be signed to the fray, followed closely by Belsimtek, CTD, Old mate WW2 and Kinney Interactive (Perhaps not in the order but those long term members may correct me at any stage) Back in the day, the dollar signs flashed before ED's very eyes that taking a small percentage of sales for other peoples work on the 'free' dcs platform would help fund holidays to Russia. Speculation here only but the slush fund needs funds in order for a company slush fund does it not?. As the Hawk already had an external flight model and cockpit (as far back as 2010, all it needed was the files to be released to ED, and a paypal account set up to get the aircraft out the door to consumers......sounds easy enough in theory but the reality of it was infighting with Tango the lead code-master on the project....Basically Tango made the scapegoat in the mess that began long before Tango involvement.....It began like I said over a night out on the piss, at Nando's.

The difference between VEAO's module\s and other 3rd parties is professionalism. Other 3rd parties now that have come on board with ED. These days, ED\TFC have far stricter conditions 3rd part developers are required meet before ED even looks at them as a developer. Back when VEAO signed up, ED took anyone based on face value. Now the developer (speculation only) is required to have a complete understanding on lua, c++ and other programming languages, all of which Chris had no idea about as stated by him in these forums. Other 3rd parties keep their mouth shut, don't make friends with consumer's from the get go let alone make Nando's jokes about how good their module is going to be than fail to deliver in every aspect. I won't go into detail of other 3rd party developers, many have had struggles of their own but not to the extent VEAO have with what was publicly announced as a 12 month project.

It is quite obvious how the hawk is coded differently to the Mig-21, M2000c. Razbam have been involved in flight sim development for many years. The Mig-21 guys have a full understanding of coding in several different languages by several members of the team (yes before the LNS\Heat Blur split, yet the coding was not just placed on 1 person as it was with Tango when he was at VEAO.

I will speculate again here, My educated guess is that ED have no doubt placed all of VEAO's e-mails in the spam folder so VEAO do not get the updates that other 3rd party devs get. To me it looks like ED has been trying to rid themselves of the VEAO cancer for quite some time now. No doubt ED have regrets signing them on as 3rd Party Devs and have pushed them out the door by not passing on information.....Not that the updated information would be any use to VEAO as they have no one with any professionalism let alone coding knowledge to decipher it.


#4375452 - 08/20/17 07:51 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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I can not fathom why VEAO's entire thread has not been moved to the mods section yet. Unlike Coretex's thread when they failed to deliver and the 'team' left and started Polychop

Coretex Designs Flop

Or perhaps been shelved way back in a galaxy far far away like this clown who had an idea.....built hype up in the forums.....than left with out a word.

Another flop


#4375460 - 08/20/17 10:38 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Here we have the 2016 year in review and VEAO's aims for 2017......surely this post was to boost P40 pre-sales was it not?

[Linked Image]

Surely every consumer [mainly Hawk owners] of VEAO would not have bought into that truck load of crap that spewed from this dodgy dev, then absolutely no one would have believed a word that flowed from the right hand man, or did they?

[Linked Image]

Notice how Sithspawn and the regular moderators seemed to have dropped off the planet in that thread and 70% of all other threads within the VEAO sub forums from about the time I started this thread here at SimHQ. Just BIGNEWY, not that his comments hold an ounce of merit other than full blown support for VEAO in every subforum and thread that bares VEAO's association.

Lot's of congratulatory posts....nothing from consumer's such as myself on that forum due to the bans dished out to those former member's who raised their concerns over the years regarding the failure to produce anything worth paying for.

Source

#4375461 - 08/20/17 11:00 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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How about this Gem from 2012....

[Linked Image]

Source

From that to this....

[Linked Image]

Source

And what happens when you build the hype in the forums.....people pay money.....hmm sounds like VEAO could have taken a card out of Kinney Interactive's fold 'em hands



#4375473 - 08/20/17 12:59 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Hindsight is always 20/20 and I bet the picture was very, very different in 2012. Heck, I just moved from DCS to BMS mid-2012 and there were still very high hopes for DCS. I thought my buddies and I would just have a quick stint at BMS, then return to DCS... or at least be flying both sims.

I guess the lesson here is: don't bite off more than you can chew.... and certainly don't be bragging about it beforehand.


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#4375486 - 08/20/17 03:59 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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.....and don't work with a 'prime' that don't have a roadmap and just react to changes as they see fit......because it will also affect the impossible schedule you have set yourselves.

The thing is, I don't doubt that other 3rd party developers have the same issues that VEAO have with goalposts moving all the time due to ED making unplanned changes that affect everyone elses dev streams. VEAO publicly denounced this whereas others will just suck it up at great expense.
ED certainly didn't plan the 3 tier development streams for example because that was born out of not being able to release DCS2.0 in a timely fashion, and then some of the functionality got splintered out into the 1.5.x and the 2.x alpha/betas.....that has affected most of the companies involved with this complete shambles.

I've been labelling ED as 'incompetent' for years. Nothing has changed, and ED hasn't either because they refuse to acknowledge they are constantly making mistakes and therefore refuse to learn from them too.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4375492 - 08/20/17 04:54 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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At least be a man, Paradaz, and admit to YOUR shortcomings in this situation. You have obviously not framed any of your points in a constructive manner. It's easy to criticize, to find faults, it's much harder to help the other party improve. If only ED had more constructive input, maybe a forum where such feedback could be given......






Pffftt.... hahahahahahahaha!!! Sorry, Daz, just couldn't resisit. biggrin biggrin biggrin

Again, going back to 2012, I wonder what spiel ED had to attract these 3rd-party devs to the table? If VEAO could be brazen enough to make those plans and claims, I wonder what ED told them regarding the Core DCS code? The schedule may be impossible with the core code constantly changing; maybe such wouldn't have been the case if the core code was stable and remained mostly constant throughout.


- Ice
#4375576 - 08/21/17 08:09 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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I was asking myself the same thing when I read the statement....

[Linked Image]
Look at how professional Pete "P-man" Pan's response is.

Ali's comment is quite justified considering VEAO have been in the official forums at ED since 2012. Due the the heavy censorship over the last 6 years regarding the module from complaints and bans handed out, the public do not see open discussions with this developer on just how crap the module and company as a whole really are
other than what takes place in PM's on the official VEAO website when consumers are asking for refunds.

Fear not gents.....over the cause of the week\s. I will gather posts from upset and irate consumers and post them here.

before anyone comments on the exaggeratedly enlarged photo, it is well deserved and on par with the attitudes of the entire VEAO team and their views being larger than the consumers.

#4375589 - 08/21/17 09:48 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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What amazes me is the company placing blame squarely on ED in terms of updates breaking their systems.

Who is actually the one to blame here? the company who can't fix\release a very 'basic' module in terms of coding and systems or the company who awarded contract to the 3rd party flopveloper to complete the module they were contracted to complete before the expiry date.

Would you not think that meeting the contractual deadline on the modules the business has signed up to release by a set time frame, have the module\s released or in fact seek an extension of the contract like it does in the real world?

Or perhaps VEAO publicly blaming ED for having a 'bawked' release of the engine for the shortcomings of VEAO had something to do with ED laying down the contract card.....one can only 'speculate' but I can say with some confidence that this was the beginning of the split between VEAO and ED's 'friendship'

flopveloper


[Linked Image]

But then again......how is this for an excuse.

[Linked Image]


#4375592 - 08/21/17 10:30 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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The steady flow of happy consumers that Pete 'P-man' mentioned earlier.....

Mind you, this one comes in response to VEAO's business statement that they are moving on from ED\TFC

[Linked Image]

Or how about this regarding ED ending the typhoon contract, this bloke is very satisfied Pete, one of the 'thousands' of happy consumers you mentioned earlier.

[Linked Image]

#4375594 - 08/21/17 10:47 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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surely the only 'satisfied customers' VEAO speak of come directly from the ED forums as the frustrated posts by consumers are swiftly removed.

[Linked Image]

Seriously....a community manager would certainly have inside knowledge with ED\TFC dealings with VEAO.....yet we see this

[Linked Image]

Must have been hard to keep a lid on the matter eh?

#4375596 - 08/21/17 10:57 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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So not only is the module bugged for 6+ years.....the happy consumers of VEAO mentioned earlier by Pete are experiencing.....'happy bugs' whilst trying to seek a refund.

Mind you.....outside of DCS and directly on the VEAO webpage. Proof that the hawk coder can't even figure out how to work wordpress.
No wonder the Hawk module and every other module these clowns proposed failed.....can't even get the website working. Yes the date is old but the point is still very valid


[Linked Image]

How many times in this thread have I quoted VEAO directly that "We are working on it" in terms of bug fixes....



#4375598 - 08/21/17 11:05 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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VEAO you seriously are the absolute laughing stock of the flight sim world.....Anyone else feel the need to become a 3rd party developer for DCS and come into the ring carrying a massive head swell??? if so, let this thread be a learning experience......hence why I will continuously update it from from to time. ED\TFC should use this thread as an example on why stricter quality control should have been placed on this cancer from the beginning..

#4375601 - 08/21/17 11:18 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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The response to this amazed me.....to the point that the comment wasn't deleted or the user banned

[Linked Image]

Deserves to be shared, probably one of the very few posts that are allowed to 'go against the grain'

[Linked Image]

yet here we see another comment from the 'happy customer's' of VEAO mentioned earlier by P-man

[Linked Image]

which pretty much sums up the feelings of the 'thousands' who are happy with the hawk.

Like P-man said, there literally are 'thousands upon thousands of satisfied customers'

[Linked Image]

#4375604 - 08/21/17 11:57 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Proof there are thousands upon thousands of happy customer's......happy in the fact the facebook page passes 4000 'likes' and no one cares let alone follows anything of relevance that is posted to the page.

1 'Happy Customer" even forget's what they purchased let alone this is proof that same 'happy customer' spends more time flying the competitors module to the point they need to be corrected.on what this flopveloper actually released. (Thousands hey Pete?)

[Linked Image]


#4375605 - 08/21/17 12:03 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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If you buy something then ask for a refund, and get your refund, are you still considered a customer?? biggrin


- Ice
#4375607 - 08/21/17 12:16 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice
If you buy something then ask for a refund, and get your refund, are you still considered a customer?? biggrin


My point exactly Ice.

#4375614 - 08/21/17 12:39 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Ah I found a couple of other 'happy customers' of VEAO

[Linked Image]

or did I?

[Linked Image]

#4375618 - 08/21/17 12:50 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Proof the 'thousands upon thousands' of satisfied customer's is a load of crap....inline with the module. Absolutely no censorship or deleted posts of those 'happy customer's' over at VEAO's official forums hey Pete? Especially from those voicing their opinion on this flopveloper


[Linked Image]

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