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#4372121 - 08/01/17 04:29 PM WW I as a Bar Fight  
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#4372122 - 08/01/17 04:38 PM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: Discord]  
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Love it!!


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#4372123 - 08/01/17 04:44 PM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: Discord]  
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I find the idiotic part about America insulting to myself, my father and especially to my grandfather who almost died a couple of times and suffered for the rest of his life from the effects of mustard gas. The small matter of the over 250,000 American dead and wounded I realize is obviously irrelevant to whomever wrote that tasteless bit of garbage.


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#4372126 - 08/01/17 04:51 PM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: Discord]  
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“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4372127 - 08/01/17 04:51 PM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: Nixer]  
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Originally Posted by Nixer
I find the idiotic part about America insulting to myself, my father and especially to my grandfather who almost died a couple of times and suffered for the rest of his life from the effects of mustard gas. The small matter of the over 250,000 American dead and wounded I realize is obviously irrelevant to whomever wrote that tasteless bit of garbage.



+1

Agreed.

When Russia signed a peace treaty with Germany thousands of troops were freed up for the Western Front. Germany was hardly about to "fall over".


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#4372128 - 08/01/17 04:56 PM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: Nixer]  
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Originally Posted by Nixer
I find the idiotic part about America insulting to myself, my father and especially to my grandfather who almost died a couple of times and suffered for the rest of his life from the effects of mustard gas. The small matter of the over 250,000 American dead and wounded I realize is obviously irrelevant to whomever wrote that tasteless bit of garbage.


At least you were mentioned...


Cheers!

jocko-

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#4372130 - 08/01/17 04:56 PM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4


Germany was hardly about to "fall over".



Maybe not so much militarily but internally Germany was already suffering greatly from the naval blockade and starvation among the civilian population was widespread. Civil unrest was already well on its way to creating the full blown disaster that was seen after the November armistice. Germany literally bet the entire house on the Ludendorff Offensive and lost.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4372144 - 08/01/17 05:34 PM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: Nixer]  
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Originally Posted by Nixer
I find the idiotic part about America insulting to myself, my father and especially to my grandfather who almost died a couple of times and suffered for the rest of his life from the effects of mustard gas. The small matter of the over 250,000 American dead and wounded I realize is obviously irrelevant to whomever wrote that tasteless bit of garbage.


Its hardly a new opinion. You have to remember that everyone else had been fighting for 3-4yrs before America joined in and had already lost hundreds of thousands of men already. There was a lot of resentment AT THE TIME from troops who'd been in and out of the lines for years and THEY definitely believed america just showed up at the end of it.

Last edited by Meatsheild; 08/01/17 05:34 PM.

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#4372148 - 08/01/17 05:41 PM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: Meatsheild]  
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Originally Posted by Meatsheild


Its hardly a new opinion. You have to remember that everyone else had been fighting for 3-4yrs before America joined in and had already lost hundreds of thousands of men already. There was a lot of resentment AT THE TIME from troops who'd been in and out of the lines for years and THEY definitely believed america just showed up at the end of it.



Yes but was that resentment justified? It can be strongly argued that World War I was really a European affair only. The reason the US entered the war was due to Germany's use of unrestricted submarine warfare which was a new and not acceptable form of warfare at the time and the Zimmerman Telegram. Both of these events did not occur until halfway through the war.


In other words there was ZERO reason or justification for the US to have entered the war in 1914. The US had no military alliances with either Britain or France.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 08/01/17 05:44 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4372150 - 08/01/17 05:47 PM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: Discord]  
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Sorry if I got a little miffed there....I am touchy about certain things.

Yeah Canada and the rest of the Empire were just lumped together I guess.


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#4372152 - 08/01/17 05:56 PM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: Discord]  
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The imprint on Europe, and France in particular, from US participation in WWI is still being felt today.

Hell, Pershing built railways across France to supply US troops that are in use today, as the French (understandably) put their troop's needs as a priorities against ours.

And the war was by no means won by the time we showed up. If it was the Entente could easily have declined the offer of troops as they had it in the bag. As it was, the USA's presence provided not just a valuable addition to the fighting force, but a huge morale boost as well.

No Allied Army ever said "oh, no, not those Americans, why do we have to entertain them as part of our force?"


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

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#4372163 - 08/01/17 07:05 PM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by Meatsheild


Its hardly a new opinion. You have to remember that everyone else had been fighting for 3-4yrs before America joined in and had already lost hundreds of thousands of men already. There was a lot of resentment AT THE TIME from troops who'd been in and out of the lines for years and THEY definitely believed america just showed up at the end of it.



Yes but was that resentment justified? It can be strongly argued that World War I was really a European affair only. The reason the US entered the war was due to Germany's use of unrestricted submarine warfare which was a new and not acceptable form of warfare at the time and the Zimmerman Telegram. Both of these events did not occur until halfway through the war.


In other words there was ZERO reason or justification for the US to have entered the war in 1914. The US had no military alliances with either Britain or France.


nope, but they were felt all the same. I'm not saying everybody would have felt that way, but some sure did. Same again in ww2 as well. Personally (other than brotherly like ribbing naturally!) i don't think the US came late to either war, at least when measured against her own interests and public opinion of the times, and provided a lot of "behind the scenes" to the allies whilst still being technically "neutral".


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#4372193 - 08/01/17 09:36 PM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by Meatsheild


Its hardly a new opinion. You have to remember that everyone else had been fighting for 3-4yrs before America joined in and had already lost hundreds of thousands of men already. There was a lot of resentment AT THE TIME from troops who'd been in and out of the lines for years and THEY definitely believed america just showed up at the end of it.



Yes but was that resentment justified? It can be strongly argued that World War I was really a European affair only. The reason the US entered the war was due to Germany's use of unrestricted submarine warfare which was a new and not acceptable form of warfare at the time and the Zimmerman Telegram. Both of these events did not occur until halfway through the war.


In other words there was ZERO reason or justification for the US to have entered the war in 1914. The US had no military alliances with either Britain or France.


Agreed. I'd say the U.S had no justification at any time. The U.S should have retained the Monroe Doctrine and stayed out of the war.


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#4372218 - 08/02/17 03:23 AM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: Discord]  
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The justification both times was preserving markets for US goods.

WWI was shaping up to be a nightmare for trade with Europe if the Germans had of won. Had they of prevailed we would be looking at a very broke Germany ruling over very broke territories - and would have had to absorb and administer Austria-Hungary as well, since they were done dealing politically by 1916. The Entente might not have been wealthy at the end of WWI, but they had a pot to piss in.

WWII was shaping up to be a complete disaster for trade for the USA if the Nazi's won as well. While it will cause howls of protest saying otherwise, let's remember that they were National Socialists. They just hated Leninist Communist movements, preferring their own brand instead, a more Bernie Sanders/Chavez kind of Socialism once the war was won and they could nationalize major industries. Let us remember they declared war on us first in WWII.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

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#4372265 - 08/02/17 01:32 PM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: Dart]  
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Originally Posted by Dart


Hell, Pershing built railways across France to supply US troops that are in use today....




Can we have sources please ? Cause mine say the US engineers made some "cut off" to avoid heavy railroad trafic at some points, and like others engineers corps of all the belligerants nations built tracks from rail hubs to the front line. We are far from railways crossing France. Plus the fact that those tracks has been majoritarly erase of the landscape in the early 20's as it was not needed anymore.

AEF was helpfull, their arrival gave a needed moral boost to allied soldiers, a moral loss to german soldiers, by spring 1918, a par about numbers, and an earlier win. The rest is a what if scenario. But for our american friends, if you want to know why some french and some brits think that we could have won the war without AEF, it is simple. Just think that we fought dozens and dozens major battles on all fronts, and AEF arrived, fought in three major battles and some ignorents take the winner prize as if it was the same war as WW II. I mean, we are thankfull, not because you saved us like WW II, but simply for your help.

I think a lot of you know this youtube channel, I noticed some little mistakes, and some harsh words, but it is a good report of WW I week by week for the centenial; it enters the 4th year of war.

The Great War

#4372271 - 08/02/17 02:12 PM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: Roudou]  
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Originally Posted by Roudou
But for our american friends, if you want to know why some french and some brits think that we could have won the war without AEF, it is simple.



Sure you probably could have, at the cost of tens, or hundreds, of thousands more dead French and Brits. America saved you from that however.


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#4372277 - 08/02/17 02:23 PM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: Discord]  
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Hundreds of thousands is a realistic number.

#4372279 - 08/02/17 02:25 PM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: Discord]  
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Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 08/02/17 02:38 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4372286 - 08/02/17 03:00 PM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: Discord]  
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Good link PM Thanks


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#4372292 - 08/02/17 03:24 PM Re: WW I as a Bar Fight [Re: Discord]  
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I'm an American, but I thought that it was pretty funny to be honest. I'm going to have to admit that we tend to get carried away, sometimes, with all that, "We saved the world" stuff."
But to Vinz I'd have to say, wrong about that whole Monroe Doctrine thing. When Germany went to Mexico and told them that they'd give them Texas if they joined the war on the side of the Kaiser and invaded the U.S....well...them's there is fightin' talk pardner!
And as far as the U.S. coming in at the end of it, check your history books. April of 1917. Hardly the end. And it certainly didnt look as though Germany was losing the war any time soon at that moment. Hell, that was the month of the infamous "Bloody April" when the Imperial German Air Force almost gained control of the air over the Western Front.
We didn't come in "at the end of it." There were almost two bloody years of fighting left.
Unfortunately it took the country a while to build up an army to send to France. We just weren't ready for such a modern war. No planes, tanks or modern weapons. Hell, our soldiers even had to use British combat gear. But that's another story.

Last edited by Pooch; 08/02/17 03:28 PM.

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