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#4370405 - 07/21/17 07:51 PM Battle of Midway Game?  
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I have seen some rumors that this series is going to expand into the Pacific Theater after Kuban, specifically the Battle of Midway. Is this true? And if so, why I am not seeing more about it?

#4370423 - 07/21/17 09:13 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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More than a rumour.

Quote
Our long-term vision includes the following battles, but not necessarily in this order and final selection is not concrete.

Battle of Kuban
Battle of Midway
Battle of Okinawa
Battle of ??????


Jason Williams on the BoS website There are a few more recent posts, indicating they are currently researching ships etc.

As for why we aren't seeing more about it, the developers are still working on Kuban. I expect we will get more details (planeset etc) for MIdway when Kuban is finished.


Last edited by TychosElk; 07/21/17 09:15 PM.
#4370538 - 07/22/17 08:52 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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I just googled "IL2 battle of midway" and the first 10-15 posts were all about it.

#4371761 - 07/30/17 03:58 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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Not sure that I would have done Midway as a move towards the Pacific. I'm happy that they are going there, but Midway is not a deep enough campaign to keep everybody busy for the length of time that Stalingrad seems to have. Or even CLOD. How long will it take to tire of fighting over that mile long little island.
Guadalcanal. That's what they should be doing. The fighting in the air, at sea and on the ground makes this a fantastically muli-faceted battle that I'd probably never get tired of. Wildcats at first, but eventually P-38's and P-40's. SBD's, too. But soon TBF's, B-17's, B-25's. Intercepting Betty's out of Rabaul, night missions out of Henderson Field in a PBY. Close support missions for the Marines. Attacking Tanaka's destroyers with dive bombers.
Zeros, Vals, Kates. All of the same airplanes used at Midway. After all, the landings in the Solomans occurred only two months after that so if they have started working on planes it would be fairly easy to switch over to this. They could add Rabaul so that people flying Japanese would have a land base to use instead of always launching from a carrier. That would add another dimension to it. You could also fly B-25's escorted by Lightnings to hit targets on Rabaul and now the Japanese would be flying defensive missions.
There's just simply more that can be done with this scenario.
If only I could sit down and convince them. Please, is anyone listening....(the sound of crickets is heard. A lone sagebrush is quietly blown across the street of a deserted old west town.)

Last edited by Pooch; 07/30/17 04:29 PM.

"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
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#4371793 - 07/30/17 08:37 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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I suspect they chose Midway because doing complex island maps as well as the new carrier tech would involve more work than they could justify taking on. As always, it comes down to limited resources...

#4371797 - 07/30/17 09:41 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: TychosElk]  
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Originally Posted by TychosElk
I suspect they chose Midway because doing complex island maps as well as the new carrier tech would involve more work than they could justify taking on. As always, it comes down to limited resources...

Yep. A Guadalcanal campaign would never see the light of day without some early work that is transferable to that battle area.


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#4372642 - 08/03/17 11:37 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Pooch]  
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Originally Posted by Pooch
Not sure that I would have done Midway as a move towards the Pacific. I'm happy that they are going there, but Midway is not a deep enough campaign to keep everybody busy for the length of time that Stalingrad seems to have. Or even CLOD. How long will it take to tire of fighting over that mile long little island.
Guadalcanal. That's what they should be doing. The fighting in the air, at sea and on the ground makes this a fantastically muli-faceted battle that I'd probably never get tired of. Wildcats at first, but eventually P-38's and P-40's. SBD's, too. But soon TBF's, B-17's, B-25's. Intercepting Betty's out of Rabaul, night missions out of Henderson Field in a PBY. Close support missions for the Marines. Attacking Tanaka's destroyers with dive bombers.
Zeros, Vals, Kates. All of the same airplanes used at Midway. After all, the landings in the Solomans occurred only two months after that so if they have started working on planes it would be fairly easy to switch over to this. They could add Rabaul so that people flying Japanese would have a land base to use instead of always launching from a carrier. That would add another dimension to it. You could also fly B-25's escorted by Lightnings to hit targets on Rabaul and now the Japanese would be flying defensive missions.
There's just simply more that can be done with this scenario.
If only I could sit down and convince them. Please, is anyone listening....(the sound of crickets is heard. A lone sagebrush is quietly blown across the street of a deserted old west town.)


While Midway is by far my favorite WWII battle to study and recreate, I agree. As others said, there may be technical limitations that make it too hard to work on both naval/island modeling and carrier ops simultaneously. But, for offline play, anyway, a Midway campaign would give you only 2-4 missions if you stay historical. Even if you go more "what-if," you are looking at most a four day engagement, with 1-3 missions per day.

Really, a campaign based around the New Guinea or the CBI (maybe the AVG) might have been a better pick. Still on opportunity to work on a lot of coastal areas, no requirement to transition immediately into carrier ops, and the opportunity for a fulfilling campaign between air forces that were at rough technological and numerical parity.

#4372861 - 08/05/17 08:16 AM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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The biggest issue with Midway, like others have said, is the liimitations of any kind of campaign. The entire battle lasted less than 72 hours so a real in depth fight would be hard to re-create, especially with the amount of resources needed. It also suffers from the issues of available bases. Midway would obviously be rendered but no Japanese base, other than on carriers, would be available. The IJN would of course have A6M2s, Vals and Kates while the USN (and Marines) would have Buffaloes, Wildcats, Dauntlesses and Devastators along with US B-17s and B-26s. The planeset would be small but that is fine, for an add on. The problem would be creating IJN and US task forces. The Yorktown class would have to be made as well as at least one early style US heavy cruiser and probably two different US DD classes. The IJN would be more complicated since there were multiple different carrier types to include the Shokaku, Hiryu classes as well as the Kaga and Akagi so there are four different BBs. You would also have to add something like the Kongo Class, a couple of different IJN cruisers and a couple of different IJN DD classes. This is doable but there was some battle with getting this in earlier IL2 Pacific games. Immersion would be ruined if there was some kind of compromise.

If this led into a Guadalcanal campaign it would be better. The entire thing lasted almost a year and had both land and naval forces involved. You could easily have multiple battles over several areas. The Cactus Air Force, the shootdown of Yamamoto, raids on Rabaul and Bouganville and the air combat around the islands to include the sinking of the Hornet and Black Cat strikes on the Japanese. It would require a lot more aircraft, to include P-38s, P-39s, probably P-40s, B-25s, B-17s, later B-24s as well as F4Fs and SBDs and TBFs. You could even add PT boats for missions against the Tokyo express.

It could be pretty cool.


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#4372915 - 08/05/17 05:32 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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The biggest issue with Midway...


The real issue is their "Battle of Somewhere" formula, Battle of Stalingrad game has little of Battle of Stalingrad other than planes - if one don't consider the "what if" like Fw 190, Stuka cannons, 1 ton bombs

#4372991 - 08/06/17 11:24 AM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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Well, since going to Pacific was strictly Jason's brainchild, It's a miracle that he managed to convince his Russian Lords of 1C to consider financing such a limited project at all. Actually, even this one is still not cast in stone yet. The ultimate go or no-go will depend on success of BoK, though I think they'll do it. It still will be a proof of concept though, hopefully for bigger things to come (Okinawa sounds promising, but I'd love the Guadalcanal / early PNG for gameplay reasons mentioned above).

#4373029 - 08/06/17 06:40 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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See, now, to me Okinawa is another tiny island concept with no gameplay depth. I'd have to put it in the same category as Midway with all the same issues. Worse, really! The Japanese wouldn't even have bases to fly from. Well, of course, unless they're defending, then all the U.S. planes with be off of carriers. It would be Navy only. A very limited planeset. Midway in reverse.
Now if we are going with the U.S. defending Okinawa, you'd at least have Mustangs. But, then where are the Japanese coming from? Would they add part of Japan? Now THAT would be interesting. Escorting B-29's to Japan. Don't see that happening, though. If people are saying that they wouldn't want to build all of those islands for a Guadalcanal campaign, then they certainly wouldn't want to build Japan.
We'll see what they decide to do. Hope they make the right decisions because I, like so many others, would love to see a Pacific air war sim. That might really get me back into flying flight simulators.

Last edited by Pooch; 08/06/17 06:41 PM.

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#4373092 - 08/07/17 02:55 AM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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Yeah, Okinawa is a really bad choice for any sort of realistic/balanced air campaign.

Again, there are options (Philippines/Leyte Gulf, CBI), if they want to do a late war game. Island in the middle of now where, though, while easy(ier) to model, does not give you much gameplay.

Don't get me wrong; 90%+ chance I purchase any PTO-based flight sim, even if it was built around the carrier raids on Wake Island . . . but Guadalcanal, New Guinea, and the Philippines would provide much more game play than what is proposed so far.

#4373125 - 08/07/17 09:37 AM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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I was under the impression the new "IL-2" series was a online airquake game (created by, and for Alberts online group) but all these grandiose expectations here tells me otherwise. Has it matured?

#4373155 - 08/07/17 02:50 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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IL-2, air quake? Are you sure you're thinking of the right flight sim?


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4373162 - 08/07/17 03:40 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: theOden]  
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Originally Posted by theOden
I was under the impression the new "IL-2" series was a online airquake game (created by, and for Alberts online group) but all these grandiose expectations here tells me otherwise. Has it matured?


Not sure those invested in the series would agree about "airquake" term. Unfortunately, it seems unlikely that the team would be able to create anything more than the shell of a Pacific theater even if BoK were to become enough of a success to enable such an add-on. Obviously the floating of Pacific theater aspirations could represent a "hook" to entice buyers into supporting the series' current offerings. I cannot imagine getting involved in fantasizing variations on Pacific scenarios when current offerings are so limited in depth and scope.

#4373166 - 08/07/17 04:22 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: theOden]  
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Originally Posted by theOden
I was under the impression the new "IL-2" series was a online airquake game (created by, and for Alberts online group) but all these grandiose expectations here tells me otherwise. Has it matured?


It kind of was at the beginning, but looks like people who pull the strings at 1C were smarter than him and when he was shown the door last year, Jason took over and started moving the product in more serious direction for both offline and online crowd. As long as the man's in charge, things are progressing where they should in my opinion, even though I'm not naive and I know we won't be getting a big-scale Pacific sim in the near future from any developer. Even the tiny Midway, however, is an important precedent.

#4373292 - 08/08/17 03:01 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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For me concentrating on carrier warfare and starting with Midway as the most famous battle seems to be a reasonable approach to make a first Pacific war sim with limited resources.

Shouldn‘t it be possible to expand the battle of Midway scenario to a decent full early war carrier campaign with limited amount of additional work? Just as they added the Stalingrad summer and fall map and campaign later. Wake, the Gilbert and Marshall islands all only have tiny landmasses, the latter can be used again later for a 1943/1944 campaign. The Battles of the Coral Sea or the the Santa Cruz islands wouldn’t require any land bases at all. All doable with largely the same limited planeset a and a few more ships. Enough gameplay and both sides are well balanced.

#4373386 - 08/08/17 10:11 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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Originally Posted by Nimits
Yeah, Okinawa is a really bad choice for any sort of realistic/balanced air campaign.


Again this show the flaw of the "famous battle" formula. smile

#4373411 - 08/09/17 01:21 AM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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Antoninus, maybe you aren't following what I think the problem is. The fact that you think Coral Sea would be a good idea tells me that.
Yes, sounds great . Carrier battles. But no land bases. How often are you going to attack an enemy fleet before you start to want to do something a bit different? You don't feel that doing nothing but that will get old after a while? I want a sim that I'll be playing for a long time. These damn games cost a lot of money. Sixty or seventy dollars and then add on more planes. I want to be playing it for months and even years.
I'm glad to see that some agree with me. Thought I was gonna be alone with that opinon when I posted it, actually. I know you think it sounds great, but believe me, attacking the same carriers again and again, every time you sit down to play the game, WILL get old.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4373522 - 08/09/17 03:13 PM Re: Battle of Midway Game? [Re: Nimits]  
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Long flights over water to find elusive AC carrier group, anyone? How large is the map? Want to fly PBY as part of the search? Maybe a Devastator once group is located? How about flying an SBD to complete the carrier takedowns? Little exposition is being given to actual gameplay options here. Until the developer gives some indication as to how gameplay would work in a Pacific war scenario there is no way to gauge how serious a consideration the Pacific theater is.

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