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#4369139 - 07/14/17 08:09 AM Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E  
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Genbrien Offline
Stick to the plan man!
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update from Belsimtek
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After release of Tiger and Magnificent Eight at the end of 2016 almost all our effort was relayed to development of F/A-18 DCS module in cooperation with Eagle Dynamics. In this project we are handling dynamics, avionics and systems, FCS (Flight Control System) included.

In parallel we continue our work on exciting project for fans of combat helicopters - the attack helicopter Mi-24P (was a long time since we pleased our helicopter enthusiasts, and ourselves as developers, by a war machine with rotor dynamics).

Also we started development of the famous fighter-bomber F-4E.

We are planning to post updates about each project in future.

Wish you to have a great time learning available DCS World modules and hope you will like quality of the upcoming ones.

With respect,
Belsimtek Team.


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#4369156 - 07/14/17 11:12 AM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: Genbrien]  
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Despite being really interested in the F-4E I just cannot muster any joy knowing how many years these things take, and that is just reaching pre-release alphaBeta.

#4369164 - 07/14/17 12:09 PM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: Genbrien]  
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Nate Offline
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At least your expectations are realistic.

Really looking forward to the Hind though!

Nate

#4369180 - 07/14/17 02:19 PM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: Genbrien]  
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watermanpc Offline
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yeah, thats the thing...who knows how many years until we get something... sigh


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#4369184 - 07/14/17 03:01 PM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: watermanpc]  
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leaf_on_the_wind Offline
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Originally Posted by watermanpc
yeah, thats the thing...who knows how many years until we get something... sigh


<commandant lassard voice> Many Many Many years </commandant lassard voice>

Last edited by leaf_on_the_wind; 07/14/17 03:01 PM.


Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4369194 - 07/14/17 03:47 PM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: Genbrien]  
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Paradaz Offline
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.........and how many years after the 'early release' do we expect to see something that comes close to finished/polished

#notinmylifetime


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4369235 - 07/14/17 06:27 PM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: Genbrien]  
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Genbrien Offline
Stick to the plan man!
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would've been really cool if they made the Hind's version with the gunner's turret, instead of the fixed gun


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#4369298 - 07/15/17 02:17 AM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: Genbrien]  
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I for one am not a fan of multi seat planes because I don't want to deal with an AI. Multiplayer co-op would be nice, but I'd assume only half of people regularly play MP, and of those it would be even harder to find someone with the same modules and times as yourself. Otherwise I am very interested in an F-4.

#4369317 - 07/15/17 09:52 AM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: Flogger23m]  
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leaf_on_the_wind Offline
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Originally Posted by Flogger23m
I for one am not a fan of multi seat planes because I don't want to deal with an AI. Multiplayer co-op would be nice, but I'd assume only half of people regularly play MP, and of those it would be even harder to find someone with the same modules and times as yourself. Otherwise I am very interested in an F-4.



I have flown several times with some clan buddies in the Gazelle and it was great havng someone with me



Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4369329 - 07/15/17 12:24 PM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: Genbrien]  
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- Ice Offline
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Still don't understand why they'd start another project when the current one isn't even finished yet...


- Ice
#4369331 - 07/15/17 12:36 PM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: Genbrien]  
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tempusmurphy Offline
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I thought all Belsimtek's previous modules are now "out of Beta" and fully released


Dont think of it as being vastly outnumbered ... but just having a large target selection.

The only thing more accurate than incoming fire, is incoming friendly fire

Tracers work BOTH ways...

" I have a cunning plan my lord "
#4369340 - 07/15/17 01:58 PM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: tempusmurphy]  
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leaf_on_the_wind Offline
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Originally Posted by tempusmurphy
I thought all Belsimtek's previous modules are now "out of Beta" and fully released


depends if you count things not being modeled right and or defeciences



Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4369346 - 07/15/17 02:26 PM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: Genbrien]  
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Vitesse Offline
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I'd hope the belsimtek guys working on the Hind and Phantom aren't taking resources from the Hornet project.

That's what I'd hope, anyway.

The F4 is something I'd be properly interested in. It was operated by so many countries and I can see it having wide appeal. I'm unsure if the E model has a tailhook 'cos that would make it even more attractive.

Last edited by Vitesse; 07/15/17 02:45 PM.
#4369375 - 07/15/17 06:53 PM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: - Ice]  
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Flogger23m Offline
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Originally Posted by - Ice
Still don't understand why they'd start another project when the current one isn't even finished yet...


Sometimes throwing more people are a project won't make it go faster. If they already have 5-6 people working on avionics and flight models, why should the rest sit around? Or would you prefer if they were fired and rehired 6 months from now? This is common across all industries as you know, but for some reason gamers get upset when a developer starts working on a sequel, DLC or whatever alongside the main game. Or in this case the Hornet. It is just how business is done and really isn't out of the ordinary for game development.

#4369380 - 07/15/17 07:32 PM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: - Ice]  
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Frederf Offline
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Originally Posted by - Ice
Still don't understand why they'd start another project when the current one isn't even finished yet...

Yeah you do. The money comes for the "released we'll fix the bugs later" stage not the "remember when we promised to fix everything; we did" stage.

I'm with the majority here. Cheers and horrays for working to introduce new aircraft modules and genuine well-wishes but forgive us for reserving our true enthusiasm until promises become reality.

#4369390 - 07/15/17 08:57 PM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: Frederf]  
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- Ice Offline
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Originally Posted by Flogger23m
Sometimes throwing more people are a project won't make it go faster. If they already have 5-6 people working on avionics and flight models, why should the rest sit around? Or would you prefer if they were fired and rehired 6 months from now? This is common across all industries as you know, but for some reason gamers get upset when a developer starts working on a sequel, DLC or whatever alongside the main game. Or in this case the Hornet. It is just how business is done and really isn't out of the ordinary for game development.


Originally Posted by Frederf
Yeah you do. The money comes for the "released we'll fix the bugs later" stage not the "remember when we promised to fix everything; we did" stage.

I'm with the majority here. Cheers and horrays for working to introduce new aircraft modules and genuine well-wishes but forgive us for reserving our true enthusiasm until promises become reality.

"Finding stuff for people to do" isn't the way to do business. When the work is done, the work is done.

What happens many, many years down the line when the first half of the staff have finished work on 4-5 aircraft but the second half of the staff have only finished 1-2? Do the first half just keep plodding on? Later, you'll end up with 10-11 aircraft but only 2-4 finished. Point is, you **WILL** have to fire someone at some point.... or get them to pick up new skills. The second half clearly can't keep up with the first half, so the skills distribution in relation to manpower is out of whack.

Just because it is not out of the ordinary does not mean it's the correct way to do it.


- Ice
#4369411 - 07/15/17 11:44 PM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: - Ice]  
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Flogger23m Offline
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Originally Posted by - Ice
Originally Posted by Flogger23m
Sometimes throwing more people are a project won't make it go faster. If they already have 5-6 people working on avionics and flight models, why should the rest sit around? Or would you prefer if they were fired and rehired 6 months from now? This is common across all industries as you know, but for some reason gamers get upset when a developer starts working on a sequel, DLC or whatever alongside the main game. Or in this case the Hornet. It is just how business is done and really isn't out of the ordinary for game development.


Originally Posted by Frederf
Yeah you do. The money comes for the "released we'll fix the bugs later" stage not the "remember when we promised to fix everything; we did" stage.

I'm with the majority here. Cheers and horrays for working to introduce new aircraft modules and genuine well-wishes but forgive us for reserving our true enthusiasm until promises become reality.

"Finding stuff for people to do" isn't the way to do business. When the work is done, the work is done.

What happens many, many years down the line when the first half of the staff have finished work on 4-5 aircraft but the second half of the staff have only finished 1-2? Do the first half just keep plodding on? Later, you'll end up with 10-11 aircraft but only 2-4 finished. Point is, you **WILL** have to fire someone at some point.... or get them to pick up new skills. The second half clearly can't keep up with the first half, so the skills distribution in relation to manpower is out of whack.

Just because it is not out of the ordinary does not mean it's the correct way to do it.


For all the hate the industry thinks, I think they know what they're doing. It makes sense from a business standpoint to continue growing. Your stance is more or less this:

Ubisoft is working on Far Cry 4. Therefore, they should can Assassin's Creed Origins, their racing games, mobile games, Watch Dogs and whatever else they are working on. Fire a few thousand workers. That is what you're claiming, but on a smaller scale, for BST/ED.

The F-4E/Mi-24 more that likely have zero effect on the progress of the F-18. If anything it can be a good thing, because if push comes to shove, they can temporarily assign workers to help for 1-2 months if needed.

So I do think this is a very petty thing to complain about. While I don't agree with every video game CEO, I do think they know what works best for growth.

#4369413 - 07/16/17 12:04 AM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: Genbrien]  
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Winfield Offline
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Seems to me that Belsimtek are the ones who do all the technicalities behind the modules, ED In Russia 3D model the modules and the only thing the yanks do is test the modules. Does ED in the good ole US of A actually do anything technical other than eat mcdonalds? About the only thing Wags does in ED that I can see is post video's AFTER RUSSIA have finished the modules......Maybe send a few e-mail to the DOD and if he has a hit, employs a lawyer to draft the contact, still not much work involved in that Matt.....

Do any of these testers, forum mods, community managers (all ED Testers mind you, just thought I would chuck in their titles) actually do anything worthwhile with the modules once they have a copy in their greedy little hands? Hardly reporting back any bugs found as all the technical stuff is written in another language,,,,,,Russian. Since there is also a title for ED Translator on the forums, and the rate these people would actually be useful translating the flight manuals. Perhaps the translator could be more useful and receive all the bugs from the English speaking nations, translating them into Russian and e-mailing them direct to Belsimtek.




#4369415 - 07/16/17 12:32 AM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: Flogger23m]  
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- Ice Offline
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Originally Posted by Flogger23m
For all the hate the industry thinks, I think they know what they're doing. It makes sense from a business standpoint to continue growing. Your stance is more or less this:

Ubisoft is working on Far Cry 4. Therefore, they should can Assassin's Creed Origins, their racing games, mobile games, Watch Dogs and whatever else they are working on. Fire a few thousand workers. That is what you're claiming, but on a smaller scale, for BST/ED.

Not a very good analogy... a better one would be... Ubisoft is working on Far Cry 4 and once that gets to alpha/beta, they work on Far Cry 5, and neither one is complete when they start working on Watch Dogs 2, then Far Cry 4 is left in a very buggy state 2 or 3 years later, Far Cry 5 is in open beta, Watch Dogs 2 is just teasers, and then they work on Far Cry 6.... another 2 years down the line and Far Cry 4 is declared "release," Far Cry 5's bugs still aren't squashed, Watch Dogs 2 is nearing alpha, and they announce MORE work in mobile and racing games. They also release a patch to Far Cry 2. biggrin

My stance is "don't bite off more than you can chew" and for God's sake, swallow before you take another bite!!

Originally Posted by Flogger23m
The F-4E/Mi-24 more that likely have zero effect on the progress of the F-18. If anything it can be a good thing, because if push comes to shove, they can temporarily assign workers to help for 1-2 months if needed.

It's been 6-7 years since DCS A10C. How long do they need for DCS F-18? How long has the F-18 been in development? It was supposed to be in public alpha or beta last year, according to their predictions early 2016. They said they'll announce ETA after Normandy has been released.... has Normandy been released yet? So where is ETA? When exactly does push come to shove?

Originally Posted by Flogger23m
So I do think this is a very petty thing to complain about. While I don't agree with every video game CEO, I do think they know what works best for growth.

Yeah. And complaining about ED developing 1.5.xx, 2.xx, and 2.5 is also a very petty thing to complain about, right?


- Ice
#4369453 - 07/16/17 02:17 PM Re: Belsimtek's Mi-24P and F-4E [Re: Flogger23m]  
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Originally Posted by Flogger23m

The F-4E/Mi-24 more that likely have zero effect on the progress of the F-18. If anything it can be a good thing, because if push comes to shove, they can temporarily assign workers to help for 1-2 months if needed.

More than likely? Didnt they say, 2 years ago, that the development of DCSWW2 wouldnt impact the other development ED were doing and look how that is working out. ED are a joke, their development incompetencies have a direct impact on everything they and their 3rd parties do. If it doesnt impact the f18, el oh frikin el, one can almost guarantee that something will come along to impact the development of the f4e/mi24 in the future. I would put my house on that. The reason they chose those 2 airframes is obvious, the platform is circling the drain and they need an injection of early access funds. Good luck to all who buy into this BS early access everything is subject to change farce.
#notinmylifetime

Last edited by Johnny_Redd; 07/16/17 02:29 PM.

DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
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