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#4365994 - 06/25/17 06:37 PM Americas Cup  
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Murphy Offline
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Haven't watched sailing for a while. I have owned a few sailboats, and sailed most of my adult life, till I retired to northern Michigan.
Now life has taken me in another direction and I've not been 'in' the sport for years. Then yesterday I noticed it was televised and watched a bit of it.

Anyway, needless to say, I was very surprised to see the sailboats are now gone, and they have replaced them with Catamarans!
When did that happen anyway?

Then while I was watching the race yesterday and today, surprised to see the NZ Kiwis beating the Americans badly, by obviously cheating!
Yes! Caught red handed! The breach of ethics was obvious to me anyway.
Astounding that nobody has noticed that they are using paddle boat tactics, bicycling their way to victory!
Has nobody noticed they are not cranking the wenches, but peddling the hidden paddle wheels for extra speed???

Jeez.........


"Murphy's Law"
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#4365996 - 06/25/17 06:45 PM Re: Americas Cup [Re: Murphy]  
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Arthonon Offline
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I don't know about the cheating you saw, but I think they switched to catamarans after the Kiwis used a different design a long time ago and won, and the US contested the result because the Kiwis didn't use the same type of boat as had become the standard, and it was just a faster boat. The commission sided with the Kiwis so the next year, the US brought a catamaran, saying that if the type of boat didn't matter, they'd just use whatever was fastest. I think since then, it's been catamarans.

I was disappointed in the change, but I think as long as they have standards now and everyone is running the same boats with the same specs, it can still be a good contest.


Ken Cartwright

No single drop of rain feels it is responsible for the flood.

http://www.techflyer.net

#4365999 - 06/25/17 06:53 PM Re: Americas Cup [Re: Murphy]  
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Murphy Offline
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Just kidding Art..... biggrin

But I was surprised by the change in boat design.
I like the old style much better, but change is inevitable in life.

They just 'look' like they were peddling, Using their feet to peddle the wenches, instead of cranking them with their arms..........looked funny to me.
Apparently they use them to build up hydraulic power to the boat.......totally different design from what I'm used to.
The Americans do the same, but with hand cranked wenches.



"Murphy's Law"
#4366008 - 06/25/17 08:10 PM Re: Americas Cup [Re: Murphy]  
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Arthonon Offline
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OK, I wasn't sure smile

I live in San Diego which is where the US team was based, and where the races were run back when the Kiwis used a different style, so it was big local news.

Here's a little info on that exchange, and I think it's what resulted in the overall change to catamarans:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_America%27s_Cup


Ken Cartwright

No single drop of rain feels it is responsible for the flood.

http://www.techflyer.net

#4366026 - 06/25/17 10:35 PM Re: Americas Cup [Re: Murphy]  
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Peddling wenches?

Don't know much about sailing, but that sounds like fun.

#4366048 - 06/26/17 05:11 AM Re: Americas Cup [Re: Murphy]  
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LightHead Offline
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Don't worry! They are still racing the J Class just not for the cup biggrin



The hydraulics are to power the daggerboards (the blades that are raised and lowered into the water). The change to dual hull is actually pretty recent (relatively speaking) and I find it incredible to think that sailing technology has reached a state where the crew who's hull touches the water most is the one that loses! Truly these things are marvels of engineering. I find it hilarious that at this point "Team USA" is pretty much entirely Aussies or Kiwis.

I only recently learned of the Moth type of foiling sailboat and my word.. makes me think of podracing from Star Wars!



Ever forward!
#4366050 - 06/26/17 07:22 AM Re: Americas Cup [Re: Murphy]  
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Where the ocean meets the sky
Just learned that myself: Instead of turning winches by hand, some improved that by a two-crank system, then a bicycle one. Though the bicycling part now drives a hydraulic pump system, so tack and jibe can be done much quicker. They thus circumvented the rules in a way, but did not break them. I would be astonished if this would be still allowed in the next race though..

I wish they would still use only displacement hulls instead of those fin-surfing ones, for the America's Cup!

#4366054 - 06/26/17 09:44 AM Re: Americas Cup [Re: Murphy]  
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I was going to post about the J-class boats, but LightHead beat me to it.

A magnificient class of boats from an altogether more gentlemanly era of yacht racing. Enormous sail plans, slender hulls and long overhangs. The boats were utterly beautiful.

Here's my favourite, Ranger, designed by Sparkman & Stephens.

[Linked Image]



I am looking at acquiring another Sparkman & Stephens design myself, the Swedish-built IW31. A wonderful little cruiser, with the characteristic S&S sharp bow, long overhangs, and deep and full centre section. When tacking, it outsails many modern boats because it can point so high, and it is comfortable and dependable in rough seas, as well as being beautiful.

[Linked Image]



In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4366055 - 06/26/17 09:53 AM Re: Americas Cup [Re: Murphy]  
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RSColonel_131st Offline
Lifer
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Vienna, 2nd rock left.
That's a really nice boat, and doesn't even seem so terrible expensive?

#4366056 - 06/26/17 09:56 AM Re: Americas Cup [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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Originally Posted by RSColonel_131st
That's a really nice boat, and doesn't even seem so terrible expensive?


You can get them for around €8-10k, with some work to be expected, or up to €15k for a really nice one.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4366057 - 06/26/17 09:58 AM Re: Americas Cup [Re: Murphy]  
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Rask Offline
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The grinder setup that Oracle Team USA uses and the bicycle system that Team New Zealand power the same hydraulic system. The hydraulic system was written into the AC50 class rules to ensure that even in the event of a malfunction the boats would still have some hydraulic pressure to maneuver. So they did not circumvent any rule, they just chose a different method to power the system.
It is estimated that by cycling the Kiwis are able to put 40% more pressure into the system then the US guys as Legs are much stronger than arms. This gives them the unique ability that the 4th cycler can opt out of work and focus completely on trimming the boat, unlike the US boat where the 4th grinder always has to work. Watch it on todays race.

The first appearance of the boats was in 2013 with the AC72 class. At that time it wasn't really known if these boats could foil, but it was quickly shown that they can and reach insane speeds that way.
Personally i love the new foiling catamarans. While the monohull boats of the past were sailing around with 8 knots, these new boats are racing with 30+ knots. It's like Formula 1 on water.

#4366116 - 06/26/17 04:44 PM Re: Americas Cup [Re: Murphy]  
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Reading this post I got hyped about watching the races,,I used to love going down to Newport R.I. and using binoculars watch all the boats and used to follow it,,I finally found it on TV I have my guide set to favorites and switched it to subscribed channels and there she be MSCS HD Seems lots of good stuff there,,Like an idiot I took off all the sports stuff from my favorites Got some nice racing stuff on now..glad I didn't call TW and just go to basic cable


Russ
Semper Fi
#4366121 - 06/26/17 05:51 PM Re: Americas Cup [Re: Murphy]  
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KraziKanuK Offline
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Cup to NZ. Congrats.


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#4366123 - 06/26/17 06:09 PM Re: Americas Cup [Re: Murphy]  
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Yes Good Sailing!!! Congrats to NZ


Russ
Semper Fi
#4366204 - 06/27/17 03:12 AM Re: Americas Cup [Re: semmern]  
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Murphy Offline
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Murphy  Offline
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Northern Michigan, USA
Originally Posted by semmern
I was going to post about the J-class boats, but LightHead beat me to it.

A magnificient class of boats from an altogether more gentlemanly era of yacht racing. Enormous sail plans, slender hulls and long overhangs. The boats were utterly beautiful.

Here's my favourite, Ranger, designed by Sparkman & Stephens.

[Linked Image]



I am looking at acquiring another Sparkman & Stephens design myself, the Swedish-built IW31. A wonderful little cruiser, with the characteristic S&S sharp bow, long overhangs, and deep and full centre section. When tacking, it outsails many modern boats because it can point so high, and it is comfortable and dependable in rough seas, as well as being beautiful.

[Linked Image]



Read this and almost fell out of my chair.
I had a small Ranger 24, one of my first boats. Sailed it for about 4 years, then sold it back in 1988.
Sadly. It handled so well, and was very fast, had a 5' fixed, fin keel. It could carry a lot of sail, in heavy weather.
Loved to ride on the rail.
I have photos of it with the full Genoa and Spinnaker up, on lake Huron.
This one I scanned real quick from a photo album, me and the daughter.


[Linked Image]

She is now married, with 14 and 17 year old boys of her own.
Memories. smile

Great info on the new boats, and helping me to catch up on sailing......I miss it.

And yes, I agree.......a job well done by the NZ guys.
Great sailing.

But I do miss the old lines, of the mono-hull boats.



Attached Files DadDaughter.jpg
Last edited by Murphy; 06/28/17 10:01 PM.

"Murphy's Law"
#4367998 - 07/08/17 12:25 AM Re: Americas Cup [Re: Murphy]  
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O_Smiladon Offline
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Hi Guys,

Jut from a Kiwi who has been Americas cup mad since 1987 when we had the plastic fantastic KZ7 . Thanks for you congrats. Come on down to see us for the 36th edition and we will make sure you have a great time. And just an FYI looks like we will be going back to mono hauls.

O_Smiladon

#4368003 - 07/08/17 01:00 AM Re: Americas Cup [Re: Murphy]  
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oldgrognard Offline
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Lifer

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USA
I owned a sloop rigged sailboat for several years and did a two week bareboat on a 44 footer with wife and another couple in the Virgin Islands. Started in the US and went to the British. Good times.

I miss the old boats. They weren't as fast but they had a stately grace.

My respects to all the crews.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

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