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#4361505 - 06/02/17 12:08 AM Germany Thinking of Buying F-35?  
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GERMAN AIR FORCE COULD BUY THE F-35 STEALTH FIGHTER JET TO REPLACE THE EUROFIGHTER


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According to Reuters the Luftwaffe (German Air Force) sent a letter to the U.S. military where the service asks a classified briefing on the capabilities of the Lockheed-Martin F-35 stealth fighter.

The Luftwaffe in fact has begun to look for a replacement fighter for its current fleet of fourth-generation warplanes (Tornadoes in use since 1981 and Eurofighters) that will be procured from 2025 to 2035. The F-35 is considered a fifth-generation fighter that thanks to its stealth capabilities is able to evade enemy radars.


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#4361513 - 06/02/17 02:42 AM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: F4UDash4]  
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'Eff 'em. They don't like us, we shouldn't like them. They don't deserve our plane.

#4361515 - 06/02/17 02:51 AM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
'Eff 'em. They don't like us, we shouldn't like them. They don't deserve our plane.


That's a bridge too far for me. While it's pretty well known that I am skeptical of individual European governments (including Germany's) and absolutely despise the European Union, they are a NATO member.

We can't on one hand tell them to pick up the defense slack we've been carrying for them and on the other deny them the tools to do so.

Besides, I seriously doubt they can come up with the political will to lay down the Euro's to buy them, let alone spend the money to keep them flying.

Last edited by Dart; 06/02/17 02:52 AM.

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#4361518 - 06/02/17 03:36 AM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: F4UDash4]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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I'm all in favor of selling F-35's to Germany. Why not? The US sold them the F-104 and the F-4 in the past. smile


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4361519 - 06/02/17 03:53 AM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Yes it would be quite disingenuous to ask Germany to increase defense spending and then refuse to sell them the F-35.


“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” - 2 Chronicles 7:14
#4361527 - 06/02/17 06:05 AM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: F4UDash4]  
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So far it's but a request for a classified briefing. Given the political developments of the last few weeks and the general habit of the german political body to consider military procurement as industry subsidy for german defense contractors I vividly doubt that the F-35 really has a chance.


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#4361529 - 06/02/17 06:15 AM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: F4UDash4]  
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May as well sell them. Why not make more money? Although replacing the Eurofighter seems a bit odd. It is a fairly new plane with a lot of life left in it. I can see replacing Tornadoes and possibly the oldest Eurofighters 15-20 years down the road. But even the oldest German Eurofighter is a mere 14 years old if I am not mistaken.

#4361532 - 06/02/17 06:46 AM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: F4UDash4]  
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The Eurofighter is a wonder of tactical manoeuverability, while the F35 has a more strategical role, and is much better suited for real modern (network electronics) warfare. As far as i read the F 35 would cut off the enemy before he even reaches the vicinity, don't know how well that would work though in real life. Question is always quality, or mass.
I (Germany here) would be all for buying the F 35, but.. got to love those politicians.

Last edited by Catfish; 06/02/17 06:51 AM.
#4361547 - 06/02/17 10:59 AM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I seriously doubt that the Luftwaffe will replace the Eurofighter anytime soon (= within the next 30 years). As Flogger wrote: more likely the Defense Ministry is looking into the possibility for a potential (at some point inevitable) replacement for the aging Tornadoes. But certainly not before 2025. And who knows; this could also be a political maneuver to put some pressure on Airbus Defense. So far the Luftwaffe merely asked for classified info on the F-35's capabilities/ sensor suite. Any kind of potential purchase is waaaaaaaay off.

Or it is a rather blunt attempt at in-your-face espionage. Cloak and dagger is sooooo 19th century. biggrin


Why men throw their lives away attacking an armed Witcher... I'll never know. Something wrong with my face?
#4361549 - 06/02/17 11:02 AM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: csThor]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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Originally Posted by csThor
and the general habit of the german political body to consider military procurement as industry subsidy for german defense contractors .



That's definitely not unique to Germany. Most Left wing politicians in the US also think that way.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4361550 - 06/02/17 11:03 AM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk

Or it is a rather blunt attempt at in-your-face espionage. Cloak and dagger is sooooo 19th century. biggrin

lol after that last summit, that was my first thought smile


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#4361551 - 06/02/17 11:05 AM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: F4UDash4]  
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The spirit of Bismarck is alive and well in Germany! wink


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4361553 - 06/02/17 11:12 AM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Dear Germany,
Buy JAS-39E.
Sincerely.
/handsomeOden

#4361554 - 06/02/17 11:14 AM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by csThor
and the general habit of the german political body to consider military procurement as industry subsidy for german defense contractors .



That's definitely not unique to Germany. Most Left wing politicians in the US also think that way.


Ah, but do US politicians enforce certain procurement decisions even if it merely adds one more troublesome issue to the plate of the armed forces? The entire history of the NH-90 and the A400M, the Tiger and especially the recent "attempt" to procure 5 more K130 corvettes provide ample evidence that military capabilities matter nothing compared to pampering certain defense contractors (because they create jobs and taxes in certain electoral districts). Simply put if being forced to choose between procuring the F-35 in the mid-2020s or having Airbus design yet another "gold edge solution" which costs more and brings only trouble the political body will always opt for the latter choice.

PS: I am pretty relieved that the CH-53G successor will be bought as MOTS - either CH-53K (a bit expensive) or the CH-47 (the logical choice).


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#4361568 - 06/02/17 11:58 AM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: csThor]  
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Originally Posted by csThor
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by csThor
and the general habit of the german political body to consider military procurement as industry subsidy for german defense contractors .



That's definitely not unique to Germany. Most Left wing politicians in the US also think that way.


Ah, but do US politicians enforce certain procurement decisions even if it merely adds one more troublesome issue to the plate of the armed forces?


Three words: Littoral Combat Ship.

Also know as the LCS, or as critics like I call it "Little Crappy Ship".


“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” - 2 Chronicles 7:14
#4361586 - 06/02/17 01:36 PM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Literally Can't Sail.

Some admirals should be reduced to seaman for that boondoggle,


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Patrick Henry 1775

I personally believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus and that deficit spending is sustainable forever. We really do need more Admirals in the Navy than ships and that millions of more poor immigrants will jump start the economy.

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#4361594 - 06/02/17 02:14 PM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I see your LCS and raise one F125, also known as Wannabe-Colonial Gunboat-Cruiser with weight issues. rolleyes


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#4361605 - 06/02/17 02:45 PM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: csThor]  
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Originally Posted by csThor
I see your LCS and raise one F125, also known as Wannabe-Colonial Gunboat-Cruiser with weight issues. rolleyes


Well at least if/when the F125 has it's problems ironed out it will be a well armed warship. If LCS were to function exactly as intended it would still be under armed, over priced and too short legged (ie range).


“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” - 2 Chronicles 7:14
#4361629 - 06/02/17 04:12 PM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by csThor
I see your LCS and raise one F125, also known as Wannabe-Colonial Gunboat-Cruiser with weight issues. rolleyes


Well at least if/when the F125 has it's problems ironed out it will be a well armed warship. If LCS were to function exactly as intended it would still be under armed, over priced and too short legged (ie range).


Actually ... well, not really. No VLS (meaning minimal Air Defense capabilities), it's not yet clear if it'll get some kind of Anti-Ship-Missile system after the Harpoons get past their "Scrap by" date, factually zero Anti-Submarine capabilities ... For a 7,000 ton warship it's simply an oversized, overprized and overweight cruiser-sized Wannabe-Gunboat for colonial adventures (which our constituency likes sooo much /s).


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#4361655 - 06/02/17 07:00 PM Re: Germany Thinking of Buying F-35? [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Meanwhile the Russians are planning on building a crap ton of missile frigates.


Frigates are Us says Russia


"I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know no way of judging of the future but by the past."
Patrick Henry 1775

I personally believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus and that deficit spending is sustainable forever. We really do need more Admirals in the Navy than ships and that millions of more poor immigrants will jump start the economy.

"There's a sucker born every minute."
Phineas Taylor Barnum

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