I'm all in favor of selling F-35's to Germany. Why not? The US sold them the F-104 and the F-4 in the past.

Its impossible to make a good aircraft that can do everything (fighter, bomber, interceptor), it just turns into a plane full of compromises.

I'm not surprised at all if Germany "jumps in" the F-35.

If the German Air Force wants to be relevant (as well as any other western air forces) it only has a single option -> The F-35.
Sorry for those that are fan of European-made fighter aircraft but that's the real and harsh truth!

And also don't get with the Typhoon. The Typhoon and other 4.5th gen fighter aircraft such as the Super Hornet, Rafale, Gripen NG and older 4th gen fighter aircraft are already completely obsolete compared to the F-35 and are already obsolete against modern and advanced air defence systems such as the S-400 as they will be obsolete against 5th gen fighter aircraft currently in development such as the Russian T-50 and/or the Chinese J-20 and J-31.
Designing and building a European 5th gen fighter aircraft is also NOT a solution/option since even if for example Germany and France decided to develop together such aircraft starting from TODAY it would take them something like 20 years or more (until the aircraft actually enters in service) and by that time other nations such and namely the US (together with close allies) would probably be developing a 6th gen fighter aircraft (whatever that might be) which probably wouldn't take long to field (by the time the European 5th gen fighter aircraft would field). Or resuming by the time a European 5th gen fighter aircraft enters in service it would be already outdated.

As the "cherry on top of the cake", Britain and Italy which are also Eurofighter Typhoon partners (together with Germany) are also F-35/JSF partner nations are will buy the F-35 which will be their future fighter aircraft, so the Typhoon wouldn't certainly be a reason for Germany not "jumping" in the F-35.

considering that the oldest EF2000 is less than 15 years old , that they can last 30-35 years and that they have not yet received the last of them, the earliest Germany would seriously start to consider the F-35 as a Eurofighter Typhoon replacement would be 10 years from now and then if they decide to buy it , schedule first deliveries 20 years from now.

Their 60-90 Tornado fleet on the other hand is the one that is old and in need of replacing - and since it is going soon to be phased out in the UK and Italy its replacement is a much more urgent need.

It would make much more sense for Germany then to consider strengthening their European bond by choosing a French alternative in the form of a two seat AESA Rafale ( since both Italy and the UK went the F-35 way ) and doing so would be a win-win for both France and Germany and avoid a F-35 covfefe .

Originally Posted by Meatsheild
Its impossible to make a good aircraft that can do everything (fighter, bomber, interceptor), it just turns into a plane full of compromises.

The Rafale is a decent plane, but it lacks a lot of the capabilities of the F-35. Dated anti tank missiles, no modern HARM, no option for a low RCS, ect. On the other hand, it doesn't do anything the Eurofighter doesn't. Choosing both serves nothing but politics and a logistical nightmare. It would be similar to the USAF buying F-18s to go along with the F-16s we were buying the the 1980s. They both fill a similar role and it makes no sense to operate both.

the f35 is doomed to be a failure for everyone except lockheed martin (who must be making an effing fortune from it!) Its impossible to make a good aircraft that can do everything (fighter, bomber, interceptor), it just turns into a plane full of compromises. Also, it makes each one flipping expensive, sure it may be super advanced system wise, but at the end of the day .. it'll either be bombing rebels or the Chinese/Russians who will shoot em down in droves because they'll have 20-30 easy to use and replace planes to every 1 high maintenance, hard to replace plane and (harder to replace) pilot.

<highly cynical mode activated>

Its just a pipe dream by the top brass who are most likely getting back handers from lockheed martin to keep the thing alive

</highly cynical mode activated>

much better to have more specialised aircraft that excel at what they were made to do.

New radar advances, particularly radio-photonic technology, sound like they are going to severely limit the value of stealth measures (at least those that are applicable to a fighter aircraft) by next decade, which should give the older designs a new least on life.

- the Su-35 is a fourth generation fighter and I don't think anyone believes that it is not a match for a stealth F-35A.

- the Su-35 is a fourth generation fighter and I don't think anyone believes that it is not a match for a stealth F-35A.

When an F-117A was shot down by a Serbian SA-3 and another F-117A landed so damaged after being hit by another Serbian SAM that it was a write off everybody was surprised, how come an obsolete good for nothing SAM could have shot down a stealth fighter ?

very much like the F-4B was at the onset of the Vietnam War, with its mighty AIM-7 and AIM-9 missiles and ready to dominate the skies , the F-35 is a long way from being what it is touted to be.

That is why the Israelis are hedging their bets and about to order new F-15I to replace their F-15A.

the Serbs showed that once you knew where to look - it became very easy to shot down a then state of the art stealth fighter with an obsolete SAM missile

the F-35A is a great aircraft - so are many others, this 5th generation thing is a marketing gimmick, I am sure that an F-16V or F-16E is more than capable for every day needs.

the Israelis are replacing their F-16A with the F-35, the F-35A was developed as an F-16 replacement.

the F-22 is an F-15 replacement, since there is no F-22 available, the Israelis are (probably) buying new F-15I because they need a two seat, twin engine multi role aircraft to replace their F-15A/B.

the Serbs showed that once you knew where to look - it became very easy to shot down a then state of the art stealth fighter with an obsolete SAM missile