Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#4355462 - 05/05/17 08:48 AM Killing off a favorite character - Spoiler Alert  
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,890
Warbirds Offline
Senior Member
Warbirds  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,890
I lately seem to be watching a lot of streaming cable drama. I chose those dramas based on Best of sites and so far have been very pleased but also have found that many of them have very similar story tactics. For example several have a daughter that turns to religion and then causes trouble. The one tactic or device used by many of the top rated dramas is to kill off a main, much loved, character about halfway through the series run. This is good and bad, good because it can have some shock value and wake up a meandering plot line, bad in that you like that character and have become comfortable with them and ruin that series for you.

spoiler ahead.

Some of the main top rated dramas I have seen so far that have killed off a main character about midway through the series are The Good Wife, Homeland, The Americans and House of Cards. This plot twist might give a shot to the ratings or, on the other hand, almost cause one to end that drama at that point. I know in my case I have not enjoyed Homeland or The Good Wife as much since this happened.

Has anyone here seen this plot device in your favorite cable streaming drama series? What do you think?

Last edited by Warbirds; 05/05/17 05:19 PM.

"A time when America was great,,when the chrome was thick and the women were straight" - Micheal Savage

"If you really want to experience flight in this life then you have to strap a DC-3 to your ass." - Buffalo Joe McBryan President & Captain Buffalo Airways
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4355471 - 05/05/17 10:28 AM Re: Killing off a main character [Re: Warbirds]  
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,503
DM Offline
Senior Member
DM  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,503
Prague
I had that with Boardwalk Empire, the character of Jimmy (I think his name was) was killed off pretty senselessly. It seemed crowbarred in, as I don't think Nucky's character would have done that given his arc so far. It felt like a blatant manipulation for shock effect, and it left a bad taste for me for the remaining series.


"They might look the same, but they don't taste the same."
#4355472 - 05/05/17 10:37 AM Re: Killing off a main character [Re: Warbirds]  
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,890
Warbirds Offline
Senior Member
Warbirds  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,890
Yes I forgot about that one, I agree, seemed out of character .

Last edited by Warbirds; 05/05/17 10:41 AM.

"A time when America was great,,when the chrome was thick and the women were straight" - Micheal Savage

"If you really want to experience flight in this life then you have to strap a DC-3 to your ass." - Buffalo Joe McBryan President & Captain Buffalo Airways
#4355476 - 05/05/17 10:56 AM Re: Killing off a main character [Re: Warbirds]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,384
PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Online Centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,384
Miami, FL USA
Suggestion warbirds: You may want to include something like "spoiler alert" in the main title of your thread.


As for main character deaths, I enjoy them as long as they actually serve the story by moving the plot forward in a natural way. In other words, it doesn't feel forced or contrived.


I'll bring up the example of "Westworld". I thought the deaths of 3 main characters during the first season were all very well written and those deaths made sense to me and the motives for their deaths were clear in my opinion. I was just REALLY surprised and a bit shocked with the main character who was killed off in the season finale.


Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 05/05/17 11:02 AM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4355480 - 05/05/17 11:12 AM Re: Killing off a main character - possible spoilers [Re: Warbirds]  
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 7,747
Ssnake Offline
Virtual Shiva Beast
Ssnake  Offline
Virtual Shiva Beast
Hotshot

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 7,747
Germoney
There's two ways - either you want your main characters to survive, then don't write drama scenes that make survival very, very unlikely. Just dial back the tension by a few notches, and concentrate on other aspects in your show. Or you want nailbiting suspense - in that case, be prepared to kill characters, and be ruthless about it. If all the action and drama is inconsequential for the main characters, there IS NO DRAMA.

Example: Stargate Universe, one of the first three or four episodes. The ship, over which they have no control travels from one star system to the next for no apparent reason, opens a gate to the planets for a specific amount of time, closes the gate, and departs. THESE ARE THE RULES. You're too late at the gate, well, F you, you are now stranded without hope for rescue, good-bye. This is a guaranteed formula to build tension - and one that people can very much relate to (who hasn't been late to something, and felt bad about it). And what do they do?
They have a character stick his arm through the open gate to keep it open for the team on the surface. Now, this may be a reasonable safety mechanism, but if they had cut off his arm and abandoned the two blokes on the planet - now, THAT would have been a moment. EVEN IF they had introduced some autodoc that gives the character a bionic arm or that grows the arm back, so they don't have to go full retard on the FX budget, EVEN IF the spaceship would eventually return to the planet and open the same gate again and the two stranded guys make it back - all that would have been an acceptable compromise to retain the tension. But sticking the arm through and getting away with it killed the show for me. At that point I just knew it would be the same-same, with a formulaic approach to build false tension. You maybe can impress kids with that, I'm seeing through all this. Maybe I shouldn't apply meta-knowledge about storytelling techniques, but what can I say. I know about it, I can't ignore what I know, so it influences my perception of a show.

Generally, I like shows better where grave actions have grave consequences.

#4355481 - 05/05/17 11:12 AM Re: Killing off a main character [Re: Warbirds]  
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,890
Warbirds Offline
Senior Member
Warbirds  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,890
PanzerMeyer I haven't seen Westworld yet but it's on my list of "Have to Watch" series. As for spoilers I took your advice. I tried not to be too specific but might be later in this thread.

Last edited by Warbirds; 05/05/17 11:18 AM.

"A time when America was great,,when the chrome was thick and the women were straight" - Micheal Savage

"If you really want to experience flight in this life then you have to strap a DC-3 to your ass." - Buffalo Joe McBryan President & Captain Buffalo Airways
#4355482 - 05/05/17 11:22 AM Re: Killing off a main character [Re: Ssnake]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,384
PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Online Centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,384
Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted by Ssnake


Generally, I like shows better where grave actions have grave consequences.



Yup, same here!


Rome and Game of Thrones are epic examples of where that is implemented. smile



@ Warbirds - No problem! I just know that some posters on message boards get a bit too testy when it comes to spoilers for movies and tv shows.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4355506 - 05/05/17 12:48 PM Re: Killing off a main character [Re: Warbirds]  
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,671
Sunchaser Offline
Member
Sunchaser  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,671
Houston, Tx.
Killing off a main character is really good for the budget.

#4355507 - 05/05/17 12:52 PM Re: Killing off a main character [Re: Warbirds]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,138
RSColonel_131st Offline
Lifer
RSColonel_131st  Offline
Lifer

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,138
Vienna, 2nd rock left.
Well, GoT cheated a bit with Melisandre...

Cool example Ssnake.

#4355509 - 05/05/17 12:54 PM Re: Killing off a main character [Re: Sunchaser]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,384
PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Online Centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,384
Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted by Sunchaser
Killing off a main character is really good for the budget.


True but I've never heard of a show were an actor was killed off because their salary just became too expensive. However, plenty of actors have been killed off because they wanted to quit the show. For me the most epic example of that is Tasha Yar (Denise Crosby) from ST: TNG.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4355529 - 05/05/17 01:56 PM Re: Killing off a main character [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,968
Jayhawk Offline
Silastic Armorfiend
Jayhawk  Offline
Silastic Armorfiend
Hotshot

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,968
Docking Bay 94
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
. I was just REALLY surprised and a bit shocked with the main character who was killed off in the season finale.



Or was he? wink

.
.
.
.
[I believe the showrunners left the door open on that, depeding on whether the actor in question decides to come back or not. Probably a matter of salary smile ]

Last edited by Jayhawk; 05/05/17 01:58 PM.

Why men throw their lives away attacking an armed Witcher... I'll never know. Something wrong with my face?
#4355539 - 05/05/17 03:05 PM Re: Killing off a main character [Re: Warbirds]  
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 6,779
EAF331 MadDog Offline
XBL: LanceHawkins
EAF331 MadDog  Offline
XBL: LanceHawkins
Hotshot

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 6,779
Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted by Warbirds
Some of the main top rated dramas I have seen so far that have killed off a main character about midway through the series are ... The Americans and House of Cards.


It depends on how you define "main character". For instance in the Americans I consider 3 people to be main characters - the two spies and Stan, the FBI agent. Same with House of Cards, the Underwoods are the main characters. All others are supporting cast.

#4355544 - 05/05/17 03:21 PM Re: Killing off a main character [Re: Ssnake]  
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,534
Alicatt Offline
Hotshot
Alicatt  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,534
Ice Cold in Alex or Eating in ...
Originally Posted by Ssnake

They have a character stick his arm through the open gate to keep it open for the team on the surface.

Generally, I like shows better where grave actions have grave consequences.

That same measure has been used in the main Stargate 1 series a few times to good effect, there is still a time limit on how long the gate can be held open. Been a few years since I last watched the series, I have never seen Stargate Universe yet and only a few episodes of SG. Atlantis, so I cannot comment oh how it has been handled in the later two series.


Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
#4355545 - 05/05/17 03:21 PM Re: Killing off a main character [Re: Warbirds]  
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,890
Warbirds Offline
Senior Member
Warbirds  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,890
"It depends on how you define "main character". For instance in the Americans I consider 3 people to be main characters - the two spies and Stan, the FBI agent. Same with House of Cards, the Underwoods are the main characters. All others are supporting cast."

Spoiler Alert:

Well to me Zoe in HOC was a main character and crucial to the plot line and at least as important as the wife for most of her run. As for the Americans your correct, the FBI chief was support but I liked him. In The Good Wife Josh Charles (Will) wanted a change and left. In Homeland two main characters were killed so far and I liked them both, Brody and Quinn.

Last edited by Warbirds; 05/05/17 03:23 PM.

"A time when America was great,,when the chrome was thick and the women were straight" - Micheal Savage

"If you really want to experience flight in this life then you have to strap a DC-3 to your ass." - Buffalo Joe McBryan President & Captain Buffalo Airways
#4355561 - 05/05/17 04:23 PM Re: Killing off a main character - possible spoilers [Re: Warbirds]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,384
PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Online Centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,384
Miami, FL USA
On a related note, what are some of the saddest and/or most disturbing deaths you've seen on a tv show? I'm talking about the ones that really hit you emotionally.





Julius Caesar's death in "Rome".
Callie Henderson's death in "Battlestar Galactica".
Laura Roslyn's death in "Battlestar Galactica".
Rob and Caitlyn Stark's death in "Game of Thrones".
Shireen Baratheon's death in "Game of Thrones".





“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4355564 - 05/05/17 04:28 PM Re: Killing off a main character [Re: Warbirds]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 20,152
Top Gun Offline
Lifer
Top Gun  Offline
Lifer

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 20,152
Roch-Vegas NH
Originally Posted by Warbirds
"It depends on how you define "main character". For instance in the Americans I consider 3 people to be main characters - the two spies and Stan, the FBI agent. Same with House of Cards, the Underwoods are the main characters. All others are supporting cast."

Spoiler Alert:

Well to me Zoe in HOC was a main character and crucial to the plot line and at least as important as the wife for most of her run. As for the Americans your correct, the FBI chief was support but I liked him. In The Good Wife Josh Charles (Will) wanted a change and left. In Homeland two main characters were killed so far and I liked them both, Brody and Quinn.


i was floored when they killed Zoe in HOC, didn't see that coming at all. When cast want to leave like Will in TGW there's not much you can do, I was getting tired of that routine anyway. Just like Derek Sheppard (Patrick Dempsey) on Gray's Anatomy, they killed him off and it made the show worse. Not because he's gone, but because now the lack of direction his wife has on the show.

GOT is what made me release no one is safe on any good series!


XboxLive Tag: DOBrienTG1969

Dave O'Brien,
Top Gun Photography
Nikon D500 & D7200
Nikkor 70-200VR AF-s F/2.8
Sigma 50-500 & 17-50 F2.8
Sigma 150-600
#4355573 - 05/05/17 04:52 PM Re: Killing off a main character - possible spoilers [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,215
NH2112 Online content
Veteran
NH2112  Online Content
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,215
Jackman, ME
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
On a related note, what are some of the saddest and/or most disturbing deaths you've seen on a tv show? I'm talking about the ones that really hit you emotionally.





Julius Caesar's death in "Rome".
Callie Henderson's death in "Battlestar Galactica".
Laura Roslyn's death in "Battlestar Galactica".
Rob and Caitlyn Stark's death in "Game of Thrones".
Shireen Baratheon's death in "Game of Thrones".





Definitely Shireen's, but I think the one that hit me hardest for its sheer waste and senselessness was

all the soldiers killed in The Battle of the Bastards. Watching it sickened me.


Phil

“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
#4355580 - 05/05/17 05:12 PM Re: Killing off a main character - possible spoilers [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,921
kilosierra Offline
Member
kilosierra  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,921
The very north of Germany
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
On a related note, what are some of the saddest and/or most disturbing deaths you've seen on a tv show? I'm talking about the ones that really hit you emotionally.





Julius Caesar's death in "Rome".
Callie Henderson's death in "Battlestar Galactica".
Laura Roslyn's death in "Battlestar Galactica".
Rob and Caitlyn Stark's death in "Game of Thrones".
Shireen Baratheon's death in "Game of Thrones".





Hi PM,

agree on the BSG ones and want to add "Dee", really didn`t see that one coming. Haven`t watched GoT.


i7 6700k @ 4,5 GHz
GTX1070
Asus Z170 Pro Gamer
16 GB RAM
500 GB Crucial CT500MX200 SSD
Toshiba DT01ACA300 HDD
Samsung SyncMaster BX2450 LED
W10 64
#4355654 - 05/06/17 02:21 AM Re: Killing off a main character - possible spoilers [Re: Warbirds]  
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,736
F4UDash4 Online cool
Veteran
F4UDash4  Online Cool
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,736
SC
The most stunning killing off of a main character in my memory was Henry Blake on MASH. But then I'm an old fart.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4355656 - 05/06/17 02:49 AM Re: Killing off a favorite character - Spoiler Alert [Re: Warbirds]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,215
NH2112 Online content
Veteran
NH2112  Online Content
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,215
Jackman, ME
I've read about that and agree that it must have left people dumbstruck until it sunk in. A friend that I got into GoT had that same reaction when
Ned Stark
was killed, she said it was like she'd been punched in the stomach.

Two that haven't been mentioned yet are when
Shepherd Book and Wash were killed in Serenity.


Phil

“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
CD WOFF
by Britisheh. 03/28/24 08:05 PM
Carnival Cruise Ship Fire....... Again
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:58 PM
Baltimore Bridge Collapse
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:51 PM
The Oldest WWII Veterans
by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0