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#4354663 - 04/30/17 11:46 PM Don't attack 2 seaters!  
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Macklroy Offline
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PSA - Don't attack two seaters under any circumstance if you are attached to your pilot!

You have been warned!

Carry on.

postscript - I have told myself a hundred times that I would not attack 2 seaters any longer. The sniper like quality in their gunnery is so ridiculous it borders on ludicrous. My flight of 4 was engaging 2 DFWs when I attacked from almost directly above. Coming down in a near vertical dive pushing the limits of my neiuports stress capabilities I opened up at 300meters and followed the attack through STRAIGHT DOWN. 2 bullets hit me...why the gunner was aiming at me when 3 other craft were hanging on their tails at 50 meters banging away...no idea. Dead instantly!

Sigh....broke my own rules so I have no one to blame but myself. Oh well. This solidifies my position...I will NEVER engage a two seater under any circumstance. I will also set rear gunnery to Less accurate in hopes my wingmates can survive.

Last edited by Macklroy; 04/30/17 11:51 PM.
#4354695 - 05/01/17 07:29 AM Re: Don't attack 2 seaters! [Re: Macklroy]  
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Hermani Offline
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Yes you are right,the 2-seaters are very hard to fight. I also changed rear gunnery to less accurate and this helps a bit.
Your pilot is getting less wounded from the first bursts that hit your plane.
If I engage them, I try to get very close under their tail and give a good burst from short distance.
If they arent flying straight, and performing evasive manoeuvers the gunner is often to shook up to fire at you so this your chance to fire at him.
But either way me too finds the 2-seaters much more dangerous than the enemy fighter planes.

#4354696 - 05/01/17 07:38 AM Re: Don't attack 2 seaters! [Re: Macklroy]  
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Yes, I also find the rear gunners are too accurate on the normal setting. As Hermani said, I too set rear guns to 'less accurate' in workshop settings and find it helps a lot.

#4354734 - 05/01/17 01:23 PM Re: Don't attack 2 seaters! [Re: Macklroy]  
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Originally Posted by Macklroy
PSA - Don't attack two seaters under any circumstance if you are attached to your pilot!

You have been warned!

Carry on.

postscript - I have told myself a hundred times that I would not attack 2 seaters any longer. The sniper like quality in their gunnery is so ridiculous it borders on ludicrous. My flight of 4 was engaging 2 DFWs when I attacked from almost directly above. Coming down in a near vertical dive pushing the limits of my neiuports stress capabilities I opened up at 300meters and followed the attack through STRAIGHT DOWN. 2 bullets hit me...why the gunner was aiming at me when 3 other craft were hanging on their tails at 50 meters banging away...no idea. Dead instantly!

Sigh....broke my own rules so I have no one to blame but myself. Oh well. This solidifies my position...I will NEVER engage a two seater under any circumstance. I will also set rear gunnery to Less accurate in hopes my wingmates can survive.



They are fair game if you position yourself on their six well below the tail and rake them from below but dont come up level on their tail or you become the fair game!! Dont move in close when they are in formation. Pot shots from a distace to break them up or wait for your mates to do it, then move in on the single separated aircraft. Stay below and if he banks to give his gunner a shot swing to the opposite side.

If the two seater doesn't have frontal guns, attack head on and dive steeply under in a sharp turn bringing you back under them.

This has worked for me but it is tedious, time consuming, and offers only short opportunities.

As you said, two seaters are tough.


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#4354790 - 05/01/17 05:34 PM Re: Don't attack 2 seaters! [Re: Macklroy]  
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Polovski Offline
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Been done to death this, but there are options to make them match your tastes as you and others say, but diving at someone with little relative lateral movement basically means you are dead still from their point of view. All they need to do is aim and fire, and enjoy hitting you more and more as you get larger in the frame.


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#4354799 - 05/01/17 06:36 PM Re: Don't attack 2 seaters! [Re: Macklroy]  
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I find high speed slashing attacks from up high at an angle to be very effective while my wingmen approach the target from their 6 o'clock position. By splitting their fire between multiple attackers,reducing time in range by using high speed to get in and out quickly and coming in at an angle so I'm not a relative stationary target, I do pretty well. After the attack pass, I extend and zoom climb out of range back up to a perch and prepare to repeat the attack as soon as my wingman are back in place. The keys is to be patient and wait for everything to be in its place. Impatience usually leads to being wounded or dead, in my experience.


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#4354800 - 05/01/17 06:45 PM Re: Don't attack 2 seaters! [Re: Macklroy]  
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If you are having trouble attacking 2 seaters, the following thread from some time ago may help:

Need some advice on shooting down 2 seaters
Credit for this has to go to Oldhat who started the thread and RAFLouvert, for his detailed explanation of how he attacks them.

Last edited by Rugbyfan1972; 05/01/17 06:52 PM.

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#4354802 - 05/01/17 06:46 PM Re: Don't attack 2 seaters! [Re: Macklroy]  
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High speed slashing attacks...

[Linked Image]

^He's laughing because he flying a flying Fokker E.II career

Anyway, just use the rear gunner mod and put them on the lowest accuracy settings. Then you will see why Roland Garros bothered to bolt steel plates to his airscrew in order to fire forwards. You still have top be careful though, break off when you see those tracers coming your way.

Last edited by Ace_Pilto; 05/01/17 06:49 PM.

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Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
#4354848 - 05/01/17 11:49 PM Re: Don't attack 2 seaters! [Re: Macklroy]  
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Macklroy Offline
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Thanks for the tips all. salute

I will be sticking to the plan of "don't attack two seaters...survive" for all of my campaign pilots. Maybe fly close enough so the enemy rear gunners will all focus on me while my wingmates chew them to death. As the player aircraft at 300 meters seems to be a higher priority target than the ai aircraft dead 6 at 50 meters putting rounds into their machine. duckhunter

Last edited by Macklroy; 05/01/17 11:50 PM.
#4354878 - 05/02/17 01:47 AM Re: Don't attack 2 seaters! [Re: Macklroy]  
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ARUP Offline
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Don't attack two seaters! I have tried coming up to them from behind and below but the observer guy is ever vigilant and has a 'trap' door to open allowing him to fling lead pellets at my discomfort!

#4355338 - 05/04/17 03:24 PM Re: Don't attack 2 seaters! [Re: Macklroy]  
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IMHO, when it comes to successfully knocking down 2-seaters, it's about preparation, precaution, patience, and prayer.

And that, my fine fellow fliers, is my ad hoc attempt at alliteratory advice aimed at aiding all aspiring aviators alting aloft and attacking artificial antagonists.


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#4355349 - 05/04/17 04:10 PM Re: Don't attack 2 seaters! [Re: Macklroy]  
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If you want to play WOFF historically correct, then avoiding two-seaters is not the historical way to play. Stopping recon flights was a major portion of the air war and not individual victories. If WOFF had a feature to also record the number of times (or percentage) your flight successfully stopped enemy recon flights from completing their mission, then that would be an ideal way to keep track of your progress throughout the war. That would be a good measure of a successful campaign play through.

Also, shooting from 300 meters or more was not historical either. It is 50 meters or less for the sweet spot and often just before colliding with the enemy craft. Use JJJ's multimod if you want to play historical which will also enforce the AI scouts and two-seaters to shoot from less than 100 meters and have more bullet spread. It's not a perfect mod, but it mostly works as intended.

#4355353 - 05/04/17 04:25 PM Re: Don't attack 2 seaters! [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.

IMHO, when it comes to successfully knocking down 2-seaters, it's about preparation, precaution, patience, and prayer.

And that, my fine fellow fliers, is my ad hoc attempt at alliteratory advice aimed at aiding all aspiring aviators alting aloft and attacking artificial antagonists.


Alliteration is one of my favourite linguistic devices. Perception is another "P" you could throw in there also. Watching that gunner and breaking away when he has a firing solution is very important.


Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.

Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
#4355355 - 05/04/17 04:41 PM Re: Don't attack 2 seaters! [Re: Macklroy]  
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Ace I suspect that if you and Lou get to trading linguistic phrases, we will all be in for a sweer treat! biggrin


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#4355356 - 05/04/17 04:54 PM Re: Don't attack 2 seaters! [Re: Macklroy]  
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Possibly Robert, but I for one am sweer to start down that path.

hee hee


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Three RFC Brass Hats were strolling down a street in London. Two walked into a bar, the third one ducked.
_________________________________________________________________________

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"pippy-pahpah-pippy pah-pip-pah"

#4355622 - 05/05/17 10:38 PM Re: Don't attack 2 seaters! [Re: Macklroy]  
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Fullofit Online content
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You could also shoot the observer and then attack the plane itself.

Step 1 - kill the observer:

[Linked Image]

Step 2 - makes sure he's dead and not pretending:

[Linked Image]

Step 3 - take care of the plane:

[Linked Image]

Good luck!

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