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#4351308 - 04/15/17 04:04 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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For some reason, my brain thinks this is two days from now. LOL!! It is TOMORROW, right? smile

Three durandals may not be enough to consider a runway totally destroyed. Some people bomb runways based on "sections" as defined by the Falcon engine, some people bomb runways on "intersections" or when the runway intersects with a taxiway. Personally, I think that's too game-y, I bomb the runway by evenly spacing my 12 bombs along the entire length. Might not be the most "optimal" way of doing it in a game, but I think that's how real pilots would do something like this. It's not just denying them the runway, which 3 well-placed bombs could do; it's also ensuring that it's out of action for a long time.

The advantage of having human flights in the lead is that the strikers can delay their attack until the SEAD and escort guys have given the all clear. In an AI mission, you need to hit your steerpoints on time because like it or not, that strike package is coming in. Not so with a human-controlled group.

As for the threat picture above, I would not really be worried about AAA or anything without a radar. We'll probably be going in fast and low and won't see the airfield until we're on top of it; one-pass haul-ass. SA-2s shouldn't be an issue for us and looks like there's enough gaps in SA-3 cover. A hard right after the target should be enough to get us back to safety.

With regards to the "danger" element, don't worry about it. If it were a walk in the park, droping GBUs from 20,000 feet, it won't be memorable enough.


- Ice
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4351309 - 04/15/17 04:05 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
And I want to post this. I got a PM from a member who I won't name so I hope he doesn't mind, but it made me smile and I thought you guys would like to know.

"But I still get your SimHQ self generated emails and just love following you activities. Not just you, but every bodies. There's probably many others like me doing the same thing, so your "team" is maybe bigger than you think. Just keep it up, its a real pleasure for me.
Good flying."

How cool is that? thumbsup

That is so cool! smile I also didn't know SimHQ generated emails...


- Ice
#4351317 - 04/15/17 04:49 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Yes, it is, I hope he doesn't mind and that I haven't broken some unspoken rule.

This will be a fairly long mission and I would advise taking wing bags, so just 6 durandals then. I like your comments on the strike Ice and it will be fun to strike it together.

I'll just space mine at 999 feet and let rip down the strip. Give the old guy the long one will ya?

Quote
With regards to the "danger" element, don't worry about it. If it were a walk in the park, droping GBUs from 20,000 feet, it won't be memorable enough.


I'm struggling with this. If I frag the mission from the save Oden sent, with no softening up, it will be a SAM trap of the first order. If i frag it as it exists now after the softening up, it could be rather mundane.

So do you guys want to fly the dangerous one or the not so dangerous one? The first one will be ten minutes of sheer terror biggrin

It'll be 20 minutes of formation, then 10 minutes of terror and mayhem, then, if you made it out, a 20 minute cruise home.




No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351322 - 04/15/17 05:02 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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I wish I knew if Mac were in. Having two SEAD humans would make me much more comfortable flying the dangerous version. I seriously doubt we will see any air opposition. I agree with Ice about the SA-2s. But there is one at the base, with the Fan Song sitting at the southwest corner. That one must be taken out. My main concern is that they ambush in BMS and if it doesn't light until the strike then the SEAD couldn't get missiles on it until it's too late. The rest are manageable especially with a deck run. I can not account for any low level IR SAMs that may be nearby.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351326 - 04/15/17 05:20 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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So it looks to me like you guys will be on tomorrow @ 10 AM CDT, right?

If there is room for one more, I just might be able to swing it! Let me know, and I'll check back later tonight to confirm.


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#4351329 - 04/15/17 05:43 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
I'll just space mine at 999 feet and let rip down the strip. Give the old guy the long one will ya?

LOL!! That's what she said....

There's actually a way of getting a good measurement of the runway length, then find the proper spacing for your bombs. I can't remember if for example the runway was 5,000 feet, if I divide by 11 or by 12 to get the proper spacing. But anyway, once you have the proper spacing calculation, you input it on your drop profile, and you just pickle at the start of the runway, fly straight and level, and you'll evenly distribute your bombs along the entire length of the runway. Pair this up with a properly-configured countermeasure program and your attack could be: Start countermeasures, pickle first bomb, fly along the length of the runway, fly past the edge, then engage evasive egress. Timed properly, your countermeasure program would also finish just as you egress. Less workload for you during the whole attack run and you can just concentrate on your delivery platform being stable.


Originally Posted by DBond
I'm struggling with this. If I frag the mission from the save Oden sent, with no softening up, it will be a SAM trap of the first order. If i frag it as it exists now after the softening up, it could be rather mundane.

So do you guys want to fly the dangerous one or the not so dangerous one? The first one will be ten minutes of sheer terror biggrin

I'm all for the dangerous one. SA-2s shouldn't be an issue for us once we're in, it'll be the low-level IR stuff which we can't do anything about.


NOTE TO DBOND:
Please upload a mission (or email it to me if you've still not sussed out Dropbox, you old pilot!! biggrin ) for me to look at later on. I'd like to check the threats and plan our ingress. Like I said, I may not like acting like a general, but I do like planning my own flights wink


- Ice
#4351333 - 04/15/17 06:18 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice
and you just pickle at the start of the runway, fly straight and level, and you'll evenly distribute your bombs along the entire length of the runway.


OK, glad you brought this up. This is the way it worked in old Falcon. The ripple 'started' at the CCIP designated point. So the first of the string fell on that spot. In AF it was changed so that the CCIP designated spot marked the center of the string. I have done one durandal strike since I got in to BMS and I think it was the AF way., the center of the string. Does anyone know for certain?

Quote

Please upload a mission (or email it to me if you've still not sussed out Dropbox, you old pilot!! biggrin ) for me to look at later on. I'd like to check the threats and plan our ingress. Like I said, I may not like acting like a general, but I do like planning my own flights wink


Yes, been at work all day so I'll send you something later tonight, sorry. I will have the IP set 10 miles from the airbase with a heading of 340 to match the runway in the files I send Oden and that will be loaded for the mission tomorrow.


Schnidrman!!! Yes sir, tomorrow 10 your time. That would be great if you could make it. Is it possible to confirm your participation? Mac? I will put up two SEAD flights of 2 Vipers each as outlined earlier so that Oden and Schnidrman/Mac can fly the SEAD. Five pilots would be great and I'm confident the SAMs could be dealt with.

Based on my work last night on this I will attempt to set up three 2-ships of Block 40's all out of Osan with a 2 minute interval between takeoff times. I suggest we go with runway instead of taxiway for this one.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351337 - 04/15/17 06:35 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
OK, glad you brought this up. This is the way it worked in old Falcon. The ripple 'started' at the CCIP designated point. So the first of the string fell on that spot. In AF it was changed so that the CCIP designated spot marked the center of the string. I have done one durandal strike since I got in to BMS and I think it was the AF way., the center of the string. Does anyone know for certain?

I seem to remember this as well, but AFAIK it's for CCRP. CCIP should drop at the start... how can you "designate" the middle of the runway when you're screaming over it at 500 knots at 500ft AGL? If you start your pickle at the middle of the runway, no way are you getting some bombs at the runway behind you.

Posted a question on the BMS forums for a more definitive answer.


Originally Posted by DBond
Based on my work last night on this I will attempt to set up three 2-ships of Block 40's all out of Osan with a 2 minute interval between takeoff times. I suggest we go with runway instead of taxiway for this one.

Taxiway would be best, as it would sort out any spawn issues we might have.


- Ice
#4351338 - 04/15/17 06:56 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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OK we will try taxiway, but I am concerned that if we have any AI they won't take off. We shall see!

If we set the takeoff time interval at 2 minutes, each flight needs to begin taxiing within 2 minutes of spawn to be sure the next jets don't spawn on top. I'm sure no one will sit there for 2 minutes though. And anyway, taxiway seems to mean spawn inside a hardened shelter at Osan.


Ice, you are an engineer by trade, aren't you? biggrin

Last edited by DBond; 04/15/17 07:10 PM.

No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351344 - 04/15/17 07:41 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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I'll check my availability tomorrow when I get home in a couple of hours.

Check the FRAG order of all the squadrons at the base to make sure there are no taxi conflicts. If you find a flight that will be close to our take-off time, change the take-off time for the conflicting flight or delete it if you can't de-conflict.


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#4351367 - 04/15/17 11:02 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Ok , I'm in..
Meet at 10 am central on TS , yes ?

#4351371 - 04/15/17 11:39 PM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Yes! Awesome. If we get Schindrman we have all six slots filled with humanoids. thumbsup

Duh, that's not true at all. Ice, Oden, Schnidrman, Mac and me is five.

Moses? ricunes? Need a sixth. Who out there has the stuff?


Last edited by DBond; 04/16/17 12:29 AM.

No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351378 - 04/16/17 01:32 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Unfortunately I'm not going to be able to make it. Sorry to get your hopes up. I forgot it's Easter and have to be at my sister-in-laws.

I'll try to make the next flight.


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#4351384 - 04/16/17 03:51 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: mac495]  
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Originally Posted by mac495
Ok , I'm in..
Meet at 10 am central on TS , yes ?



Yes Mac, that is correct. Sorry you can't make it Schnidrman, but it is Easter after all. No worries.

Takeoff runway is 090 for the mission I believe based on wind direction. That could change of course. At Osan you can never quite tell where you will spawn. Usually 090 would be a taxi to the left, but it depends. Osan can be a confusing place so the first guy to roll hopefully heads the right way smile

If we have four, as we currently do, it would be best if the two SEAD guys lead each flight so you can deconflict targets and don't just have an AI flight shooting at the same ones. But I also fear that could leave us with two SEAD ships if the AI acts up on taxi.

The strikers will have a higher drag co of course, it's around 280 usually with two full TERs. If Ice takes 12 -107s that's alot more. So we might take a bit to get there biggrin timing isn't critical I think, and Cobra's carets will be two minutes behind Avenger's, with Stud's another 2 minutes after that. Escort will probably range ahead anyway to give the HARMs time to come down. But either Avenger or Cobra will have to fly either behind or ahead of their carets if they want to approach more or less abreast.

Ice, which runway is mine? Right or left? The fat one on the right is good for me, you know, old guys.

I'll send the .cam file to Oden sometime in the morning. It will give me time to get up and make any last minute changes based on anything you guys post in the meantime.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4351392 - 04/16/17 06:24 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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I plan to be on TS some T -30mins and doing some server work at T -20mins smile

#4351396 - 04/16/17 06:43 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
Ice, you are an engineer by trade, aren't you? biggrin

Nope. I wonder where that statement came from...

Originally Posted by DBond
Ice, which runway is mine? Right or left? The fat one on the right is good for me, you know, old guys.

Since I'll be the lead and you'll be #2, then the appropriate statement for a good wingman is "I'll take the fat one!" biggrin



- Ice
#4351398 - 04/16/17 06:56 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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I read your BMS thread Ice, do you plan to run a centerline tank and 12 Dur's?
Without any bags I think the flight back home might be your most dangerous part smile

If we SEAD guys can press hard enough you might actually pull it off without an ALQ under your belly.

#4351405 - 04/16/17 08:11 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Yeah, didn't realize the distance. Where does it show fuel calculations again?


- Ice
#4351406 - 04/16/17 08:24 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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Looking at WDP and with a rough plan of 346nm trip distance, we could be landing with 1200lbs fuel. Very minimal loiter time and nearly no play time whatsoever. Any tankers around the FLOT? A top up on ingress would be ideal and would give the SEAD/Escorts time to sanitize the area. Looks like there's a KC-135 on station during takeoff time, but he's too close to Osan to really be beneficial, but I guess we can just top up the tanks for a few hundred pounds fuel.

A centerline would give another 2000lbs fuel but then how confident am I to be flying without a jammer? smile

Need to catch some ZZzzzs now guys, I'll leave the planning up to you. Please email me the final mission file later on, the one with our flights already fragged so I can put it on WDP. Seems like a lot of SA-2s south of the target, a few SA-3s as well. I'm having issues with CCIP drop profiles; like DBond said, the pickle location is NOT the start of the chain, it's the MIDDLE of the spread of bombs which isn't ideal for something like a runway attack. Might have to just drop singles instead.


- Ice
#4351408 - 04/16/17 08:59 AM Re: Sunday Strike [Re: DBond]  
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I stopped ripple Durandals a long time ago.
Nowadays I set ARM to 1.11 on both (not scientific numbers but easy to tap in) and go CCIP over target with program 4 dropping stuff behind me.
Just a suggestion.

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