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#4347742 - 03/29/17 09:46 PM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: - Ice]  
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Nate Offline
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Yeah could be, mostly to do with Multi-player I'd imagine.

Nate

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4347767 - 03/30/17 12:06 AM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: Nate]  
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Originally Posted by Nate
Originally Posted by Tom_Weiss
I believe that the direction of DCS is pretty much set - they could go have gone this way or that way ages ago, not anymore, this flight sim is what it is.


Yeah I'm with JM on this one, I'd have liked more FC3 level aircraft.

Nate


so would I - and nothing stops making later on an FC4, but right now the direction is clear and backtracking would do nothing but delay everything.

#4347777 - 03/30/17 02:04 AM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: ST0RM]  
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I'm not sure what you mean - there's nothing 'elite' about this. It was made for people out there in the public to use a guide for constructing their own modules.

Originally Posted by ST0RM
Originally Posted by GrayGhost
ED has no problems getting public data ... I don't see why they'd ask for them from BMS.

There is a DCS F-16 module that's used as an educational piece for people who wish to make modules - it could be that someone was asking for data to add an EFM to that module.


Is that what is being flaunted by the elite for private use? Random pics show up in the screenshot forums.


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#4347778 - 03/30/17 02:10 AM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice
Wasn't there an issue with FC3 aircraft messing with DCS aircraft? Something along the lines of simplified avionics making it easier and faster to find/track/engage the enemy compared to more realistic avionics?



Nope. There never was, and probably there never will be. It's a line used by people who go play airquake and are destroyed on the ground (or because it takes them this long to get back up after they are shot down smile ) in their DCS jet because they want to do the full 8 minute alignment instead of adopting emergency/scramble procedures.
It's essentially a lamentation to cover for lack of one's flying skill for the most part. The weapons and radars function more or less the same way and frankly, a full fidelity model could, with better radar code, easily have a significant advantage over a DCS jet thanks to higher available of radar modes that enhance radar capabilities.

Case in point, even the F-5 has HOTAS capability, and the process of engaging a bandit in the M2K isn't that different from the F-15C. If you got a 'DCS F-15C', it would actually designate the targets for you, and you just use AMRAAM salvo launch mode to make a mess ... no, I'm not kidding. Real stuff, though a touch exaggerated on my part smile

Speaking of which, did you know the real APG-63 has three AAI symbols? You know two of them: Dots for buddies, rectangles for no response/unknown ... and diamonds for 'FOE'. That last thing in 'IFF'. Just saying.

So that whole 'FC3 jets make things easier' is mostly silly. It isn't that it can't happen, but FC3 jets have simplified, not gamified cockpits.


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#4347785 - 03/30/17 03:15 AM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: GrayGhost]  
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Originally Posted by GrayGhost
So that whole 'FC3 jets make things easier' is mostly silly. It isn't that it can't happen, but FC3 jets have simplified, not gamified cockpits.

Fair enough... I've no A-A experience in DCS. The last time I was serious in a fast mover was in the Su-27/Su-33 back in the LOMAC days. DCS was mostly the Hog for me, then a couple of hours in the Shark.
smile


- Ice
#4347826 - 03/30/17 01:06 PM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: - Ice]  
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Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
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I keep trying to do A2A in DCS, but the missiles keep turning me off. Only dogfight-range ones are worth a damn, and while that's fine for the MiG-21 and F-86 for the Su-27/MiG-29/F-15 it's just too frustrating.

Sure, you can do guns-only battles easily enough, but it gets old.



The Jedi Master


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#4347927 - 03/30/17 06:46 PM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: - Ice]  
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A-A in DCS is a sad joke. It's so unrealistic that it drives people to adopt opposite-to-real-life tactics.
Still, I do enjoy the air-quake.

#4347945 - 03/30/17 08:02 PM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: - Ice]  
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The next DCS patch will take away the F10 map and the debug-level chat output.

#4348003 - 03/31/17 02:29 AM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: bkthunder]  
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nadal Offline
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Originally Posted by bkthunder
A-A in DCS is a sad joke. It's so unrealistic that it drives people to adopt opposite-to-real-life tactics.
Still, I do enjoy the air-quake.


yes but FC3 + leavu is the only and closest program that allows us to follow A/A tactical control (written in AFTTP) in practice... so every sim has pros and cons.

if only BMS implement advanced datalink and individual planes viewable 2D map(awacs).

#4348523 - 04/02/17 11:19 AM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: - Ice]  
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Winfield Offline
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Just putting it out there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti0CWLXaQ4Q


Someone obviously might be seeking BMS's assistance to actually get a F-16 module into DCS that is of better quality than the one in the above link......JJablahblah could be anyone.....anyone other than someone who actually works for ED as per OP

Maybe Jim Blim himself, going by a different name is seeking guidance in the matter to improve on his poor investment....who knows

#4348621 - 04/02/17 07:15 PM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: nadal]  
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bkthunder Offline
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Originally Posted by nadal
Originally Posted by bkthunder
A-A in DCS is a sad joke. It's so unrealistic that it drives people to adopt opposite-to-real-life tactics.
Still, I do enjoy the air-quake.


yes but FC3 + leavu is the only and closest program that allows us to follow A/A tactical control (written in AFTTP) in practice... so every sim has pros and cons.

if only BMS implement advanced datalink and individual planes viewable 2D map(awacs).



Isn't Leavu just a software that mimics the F-16 avionics and allows you to export them to a screen? If so, that's all stuff that BMS has natively.
As for 2D awacs map, the standard UI in BMS gives exactly that.

Although I'm pretty sure I'm missing something from your comment...

#4348649 - 04/02/17 10:15 PM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: Winfield]  
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SkateZilla Offline
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Originally Posted by Winfield
Just putting it out there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti0CWLXaQ4Q


Someone obviously might be seeking BMS's assistance to actually get a F-16 module into DCS that is of better quality than the one in the above link......JJablahblah could be anyone.....anyone other than someone who actually works for ED as per OP

Maybe Jim Blim himself, going by a different name is seeking guidance in the matter to improve on his poor investment....who knows



That Video is Less about DCS: F-16 and More about Spencer Lever, Scam Artist, Jim has every right to be peeved, Spencer Ripped him off, like he does everywhere else.

Last edited by SkateZilla; 04/02/17 10:19 PM.

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#4348651 - 04/02/17 10:40 PM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: Jedi Master]  
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DrStrangePool Offline
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Originally Posted by Jedi Master
Probably it's more FC3 level, aka "F-16 for DCS World", but perhaps with a clickable cockpit to demonstrate that aspect.

I do find it odd they've not released it as an FC3 companion, though.

I seem to recall Wags claiming FC3 outsold all of their other modules. Yet instead of making an FC4 with another batch of jets they have stuck to the time-consuming (ok, lifetime-consuming) DCS level releases of planes like the F-5 and L-39 (REAL popular choices there) while leaving obvious entries like US teen fighters and Western Euro jets out.

Yes, they're working on the Hornet, but until it's actually out it's no more than the Apache ever was--a promise.


The list of popular multirole jets they could model to FC3 levels and sell a ton of is huge, yet totally ignored.

F-14
F-15E (the C isn't multirole)
F-16
F/A-18 (I will take it off this list only when it actually comes out)
Tornado
Typhoon/EF2K/whatever
Gripen
Rafale
Mirage 2kD (RAZ's doesn't count, not multirole)
Su-30 \
Su-32 \
Su-35 \
MiG-35 -- all mutirole variants of planes they already have



But no, let's make an F-5! I'm sure a ton of people out there have been waiting over a decade for a good L-39 sim. rolleyes Make sure to do the full-up DCS systems treatment in depth!


If there's one thing about ED that irritates me just as much as their inability to manage feature creep and impacting their schedules, it's their Magic-8-Ball-and-pot-brownies method of choosing which planes to do.






The Jedi Master


Add the F-4 Phantom to the list as well.

I would probably shriek like a 14 year old girl who just spotted Justin Bieber.

#4348758 - 04/03/17 02:50 PM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: - Ice]  
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Entil'zha
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Well that's certainly a reason for them NOT to do it then! smile



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The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4348775 - 04/03/17 03:59 PM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: DrStrangePool]  
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Originally Posted by DrStrangePool
Add the F-4 Phantom to the list as well.

I would probably shriek like a 14 year old girl who just spotted Justin Bieber.

Not much shrieking like a 14-year old girl, more like shrieking like a mid-30s male... wink


- Ice
#4348802 - 04/03/17 05:59 PM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: bkthunder]  
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Originally Posted by bkthunder
] If so, that's all stuff that BMS has natively. As for 2D awacs map, the standard UI in BMS gives exactly that.


In BMS map view each airplane icon is only the position of the flight leader. If the formation is in tight formation no problem but if they are 40nm apart you still only get one icon.

#4348837 - 04/03/17 07:39 PM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: - Ice]  
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I wonder what the cost ratio is between developing FC3 level and full DCS these days?

Seems like 3d modelling is the cheap part. It's the flight model and systems that really cost (time and money) so where would a customer's level of expectation lie?

Personally I might take a pack of three 60s cold war jets (simpler to develop that generation?) at the price of one DCS. I'd need advanced flight modeling though. To be cost effective I imagine a modular system where a dev could (for example) edit a config file to add functions.

I fully expect such a thing after 2.5!

#4348840 - 04/03/17 07:57 PM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: - Ice]  
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I doubt you see any Licensed Modules with SFM ever again, SSM is also doubtful.


I've pitched the idea of a "Strike Fighters 3" Module to Thirdwire Multiple times (F-4s, A-4s, F-100, F104 etc etc)..

With Re-Sampled Externals and Updated Cockpits and utilizing embedded SSM Code..


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#4348843 - 04/03/17 08:30 PM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: - Ice]  
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Vitesse Offline
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Just looked up SSM. So many acronyms!

Yes, a Third wire module is just the sort of thing I'd like. I agree about the old SFM - we're thoroughly spoiled by the realism we get now. Looking at some of the FM discussions and the tiny details that are debated it's easy to forget how recent AFM is.

Licensing is another roadblock that's a significant factor these days.

#4348867 - 04/03/17 10:26 PM Re: That got shut down quick! [Re: - Ice]  
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SFM = Standard Flight Model
SSM = Standard Systems Model

FC3 Launched with SFM and SSM for all but he Su-25 and A-10A Those were AFM.

Since then the Flight Models have been upgraded, along w/ several supporting systems (electric, hydraulic, fuel, etc)

All DCS Aircraft and Most of the new FC Separated Aircraft use PFM Now.

Last edited by SkateZilla; 04/03/17 10:27 PM.

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