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#4227289 - 02/10/16 12:37 AM What is it about Aces High II?  
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TerribleTwo Offline
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I got back into AH just yesterday after 6 years. Still addictive. Still 200+ players. Lively arenas, people setting up bombing runs, fighter escorts, tankers taking over bases... But I really don't know exactly what it is about this online ww2 flyer that hooks you.

-No flashy graphics (although the AH III beta looks nice)
-Average flight modelling (but feels better than War Thunder for some reason)
-1990's sound effects
-$15 a month to play


Perhaps it isn't what it HAS, but rather, what others don't. War Thunder feels like the same flight model but just tweaked with different parameters to make them respond differently. IL-2 has great flight modeling, gorgeous maps, but empty arenas and small maps. DCS.. well what I can I say? Oddly enough, Aces High feels more like DCS to me than anything else.

Someday I guess when DCS has 200+ players like AH on any given night, huge maps, then maybe it'll be great.


"College graduates should not have to live out their 20s in their childhood bedrooms, staring up at fading Obama posters and wondering when they can move out and get going with life" - Paul Ryan
#4227633 - 02/10/16 08:04 PM Re: What is it about Aces High II? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
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80hd Offline
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Funny as it is, I re-subbed last week myself.

Aces High does have plenty of strong points, but the game being like DCS? I'll admit it, I've never played DCS other than A-10, though I own several... and man, just going by that I fail to see any similarity.

War Thunder at least has actual take-off/landing effects. Aces, IF you turn off auto-takeoff, does at least model directional torque, but seriously... take offs and landings are basically as tough as docking with a space station. I mean, you still just go wheels up... there's a hard coded MPH #.. if you land faster than that, you explode. Slower, you save time and can exit out faster. I don't want to tell you what the exact speed is, because that would spoil it.

I will say Aces' damage modeling is still very effective for how long ago it was designed, and other than the rifle caliber MGs being so weak that they are almost worthless, it feels much better than War Thunder to me; that includes the actual projectiles themselves and how they are handled (heavy MGs and Cannon). That's limited to the aircraft, however. The ATG ordnance is as arcade as you get. You can pipper a flak gun from 15k+ above and light off a rocket at it and it WILL hit. Like missile command.

Flight is simplified to a very great degree. As everyone flies with "combat trim", that immediately effectively makes Aces High sub-par, as a sim, to War Thunder (and I hope it's obvious that I am talking about Sim Battles, not the Arcade/Arcade+ garbage). Then we have the insane distance that icons are displayed, making perfect SA within the grasp of even the very drunk or infirm. Because, from 6 KILOMETERS away kids, you will know the model, disposition, and continuously computed distance to your contact! You've got an E6B that is basically the car from Knight Rider, auto-level, auto-climb, auto-angle settings, a level bombing site that a capuchin monkey could master the third time around (Though MAN if people won't still let you down.) and we're REALLY starting to see less of a sim and more of a multiplayer combat arena, which is I believe what they are, have been, and will be going for.

There is nothing *wrong* with any of that, per se, only that it really makes it difficult to compare to actual "sims" (and for the purposes of this discussion, we'll allow WT Sim battles to operate as an "acting sim", like an acting platoon commander, not a sim that teaches theatre) No Icons, you have to actually fly your plane, take offs and landings are well modeled, preferably engine management is required... (WT at least models heat, if poorly, Aces models a chunk of metal that will leak oil (indicated by the instant, static bitmap now obscuring your windshield) and sometimes absorb a hit that would have killed the aircraft had it struck anywhere else.

So, just because it's not a sim doesn't mean we can't still be friends...

The PROBLEMS with Aces High, which since the Beta is a great-effort re-texture of an almost 20 year old engine and kudos and hats off to them and all, but the real problems are going to follow right along into "AHIII".

The real problems are that a core of very long term players who are not at all good virtual pilots (there are definitely exceptions, but having sampled a large data pool that shows ~90% rage-quit attrition when they have ventured to WT or IL-2, it's pretty widespread)... but these guys are MASTERS at the Aces High game... the engine, the rules, the tricks. But the absolute vast majority of them aren't challenging themselves any further... they are flying one of a handful of rides, that when are unavailable (see ENY: a guide to AH balance) simply refuse to play, and generally go to the forum to #%&*$#. They aren't interested in actual air combat... or they wouldn't be flying late 1944, 1945 aircraft exclusively. They tend to be an extremely territorial lot that is adverse to change or logic, and will come unglued about things like: logical ideas, fresh gameplay, or even just someone changing "sides" in the oh-so-serious ongoing war where children drop formations worth of ordnance from Lancasters or B-17s, and then are either shot down or just bail out... the net result to you? You get to take longer to fly to the fight, which means the aces high experten crew will be forced to fly even higher to pick you.

Let's not even touch on the ground game... that's just a weird, weird little world of weirdness and camping and special camping rules.

The sad truth of the Beta is that I don't see it attracting new players. At all. It's the exact same game, we've just replaced late 90s graphics with what kind of look like mid 00's, and that's limited to textures and explosions. Same models, engine... oh, they did add clouds (fingers crossed it goes better this time around). Who is your target audience? People who have been banned from War Thunder? And are old enough to be able to afford $15/monthly?

You will hopefully see a surge of returning players who are curious about the new stuff, and hopefully a bunch of them will stay around. Because Aces High IS an awesome game in areas where it shines: getting a TON of people together in one place and having it out in the air. Friday Squad Ops and even better, the big seasonal operations people used to put together were (and still are) all awesome!

As far as IL-2 goes, its got its issues, but the fact that you picked "small maps" as a detractor kind of makes it sound like you've never played it. Because the maps, just like Aces, vary in size. Oh, and you also have to navigate without GPS, server dependent. You want to talk about a MAJOR bar to entry for people?

IL-2 has a small crowd because the learning curve is high and painful, and people tend to like processed food-spread style entertainment... it's easy to get into, easy to consume, and even though it makes you fat and lazy and ultimately stunts your ability to experience new things and overcome new challenges, but boy it sure is convenient and tasty!

Oh, and get a soundpack for Aces already, that's like day 2 order of business item.

#4227698 - 02/10/16 10:49 PM Re: What is it about Aces High II? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
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Nice post! Didn't expect a dissertation but I'll take it.

So it's seductiveness still eludes me. Let me add these things as I get back into it:

-The size of the arena allows for true 3 dimensional air combat. Bombers up high with escorts, lone sharks flying off into the horizon on their own one man mission, combat at tree top levels, super high flying interceptors, etc.. Most online flyers dwindle down to tree top level and that's it. No true feeling of open space,

-Excellent community, willing to support each other in missions, back up a friendly, respond to help, others watching your six, congrats and backslaps all around after a good mission.

-The feeling of ownership due to the monthly fee. There's an old saying or philosophy that if you ask too little for something then people think its junk. Keeping a monthly fee gives players the impression of personal ownership with a personal stake in the outcome. We are INVESTORS in the success and enjoyment of the game. Few little kiddies coming and going, ruining the game, and generally doing stupid things to degrade the atmosphere.

-Tons of planes, should be a given, and I'm not sure if this is part of the reason. I for one like to take up a 109F-4 and surprise the enemy when they think I've got the G-14. I also like to kill baddies while in the P40.

-Kill stats advertised after a successful sortie. I think this satisfies that little voice that says "you sir, are awesome.." We all like to show off, and this is classic way of saying, yup I'm awesome and you suck.

-Revenge. Looking at the above, nothing is better than search and destroy mission that yields a kill against your mortal enemy who just ripped you to shreds.



I'm sure there's more..


Oh, speaking of the AHIII beta, I think it's a great jump in eye candy. Cockpits are very well done. And the sounds are supposed to be from the real thing.


"College graduates should not have to live out their 20s in their childhood bedrooms, staring up at fading Obama posters and wondering when they can move out and get going with life" - Paul Ryan
#4227950 - 02/11/16 03:31 PM Re: What is it about Aces High II? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
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Bohemond Offline
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Haven't started up AH in prolly 8 months. I keep my sub knowing full well that sometime in the future, the bug will resurface to jump right back into the fray. It is a truly addictive and totally aggravating sim/game at the same time.
<s>

#4280029 - 07/19/16 01:17 AM Re: What is it about Aces High II? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
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I've just discovered that Aces High III beta supports VR, Oculus Rift and Vive. I have to say that's one flight sim I didn't expect to support VR. I'll give a go but the limitations with the flight engine seem like it might be a no go for me. I can deal with lower tech graphics, but the simulation of flight is something I have a harder time accepting steps back - especially take off and landing.

#4280103 - 07/19/16 02:44 PM Re: What is it about Aces High II? [Re: 80hd]  
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Originally Posted By: 80hd

The real problems are that a core of very long term players who are not at all good virtual pilots (there are definitely exceptions, but having sampled a large data pool that shows ~90% rage-quit attrition when they have ventured to WT or IL-2, it's pretty widespread)... but these guys are MASTERS at the Aces High game... the engine, the rules, the tricks. But the absolute vast majority of them aren't challenging themselves any further... they are flying one of a handful of rides, that when are unavailable (see ENY: a guide to AH balance) simply refuse to play, and generally go to the forum to #%&*$#. They aren't interested in actual air combat... or they wouldn't be flying late 1944, 1945 aircraft exclusively. They tend to be an extremely territorial lot that is adverse to change or logic, and will come unglued about things like: logical ideas, fresh gameplay, or even just someone changing "sides" in the oh-so-serious ongoing war where children drop formations worth of ordnance from Lancasters or B-17s, and then are either shot down or just bail out... the net result to you? You get to take longer to fly to the fight, which means the aces high experten crew will be forced to fly even higher to pick you.


The AH community culture is acidic at times, and that certainly has played a role in the decline of the game population. People get tired of hearing the whining both in game and on the forums.

The other reason for the decline in numbers, in my opinion, is that High Tech Creations developed AH in the late 90s and pretty much sat on it. The game has had minor revisions over the years with graphics, new planes, etc but no major changes in game play or flight mechanics. Even the new version appears to be nothing more than a graphical revision and some modest changes in game mechanics. Don't get me wrong....AH is fun, but once you've tried a combat sim with more complex flight and ballistics modeling like IL-2 CLoD, IL-2 BoS/BoM or DCS then AH becomes somewhat old hat and boring.


Last edited by ATAG_Invictus; 07/19/16 02:44 PM.

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#4297019 - 09/17/16 02:50 PM Re: What is it about Aces High II? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
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There is no other game like this on the market.


Is no other developer smart enough to make a new online arena flight sim ?

#4297061 - 09/17/16 06:11 PM Re: What is it about Aces High II? [Re: JimBobb]  
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Originally Posted By: JimBobb
There is no other game like this on the market.


Is no other developer smart enough to make a new online arena flight sim ?


Is not Warthunder a successor worth tying, arcadish but very good graphics. AH never caught my attention, not because of rubbish graphics, but it felt like a arcade game to me

#4298476 - 09/23/16 06:39 PM Re: What is it about Aces High II? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
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Well, Aces High II is no longer. Aces High III went live this week. Updated graphics/sounds and a slew of new features. IMHO the only thing WarThunder had going for it was the graphics. AHIII just closed that gap! For those that wish to check it out there is a free two week trial.

#4298666 - 09/24/16 05:30 PM Re: What is it about Aces High II? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
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I don't understand all the criticism of the flight modeling in AH. I primarily fly DCS World at this point. The P-51D in Aces High is not so much different fromt he P-51D in DCS World. Aces High allows stall limiters and "combat trim", but the stall limiter prevents you from reaching the aircraft's full potential. I have never flown with combat trim enabled, but I understand that it doesn't really affect combat that much to have it on or off. The superiority of Aces High flight models was one of the factors that turned me off from the original IL-2 series.


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#4343986 - 03/13/17 02:44 AM Re: What is it about Aces High II? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
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I never played AH before, though I did play quite a lot of Warbirds in the Dial Up and Pay by the hour days.

Had to try it out with my Oculus Rift and I've been having a blast. The HMD really changes flight sims for me.

#4358958 - 05/23/17 02:14 PM Re: What is it about Aces High II? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
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