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#4341494 - 03/02/17 02:56 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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This article links to many many test reports. It also gives lengthy summary quotes from some mainstream test sites.

All in all, they're "meh" about gaming. But, okay with application performance and bang-for-buck relative to other 8 core CPUs.

When I get my rig built, I'll see for myself (all my parts aren't here yet).

Quote
AMD Ryzen 7 Review Roundup – Official Launch Coverage, Reviewer Remarks and Details of All Ryzen 7 Processors


Roundup Launch Coverage Article


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#4341495 - 03/02/17 02:57 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: Allen]  
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Originally Posted by Allen
Originally Posted by NimRud
..it seems the i7-7700k is still king when it comes to overall gaming performance.. .!


Agree. Most games don't make use of extra cores and 7700K has the highest clocks.

The question was: "How close would AMD Ryzen get to Intel's latest CPUs on a core-for-core, clock-for-clock, bang-for-buck basis?". Personally, I expected Intel to have a slight speed lead (for various reasons, including that software is not yet optimized for Ryzen architecture).


Still baffled that even on the exact clockspeed the i7 at 3.8 GHz is still faster in some of the games they used in those tests.


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#4341499 - 03/02/17 03:11 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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I'm just starting to read a couple of reviews now. One is only on the middle 1700x, the other seems to cover all 3. I'll be back later after I've read them all. smile



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#4341540 - 03/02/17 05:31 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: Allen]  
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Originally Posted by Allen
All in all, they're "meh" about gaming. But, okay with application performance and bang-for-buck relative to other 8 core

Pretty disappointed with the bang-for-buck ratio of the Ryzen. The i7-7700k seems to perform better on all games that are not optimized for more than 4 core (Civ VI was used in the benchmark). And the 7700k is hundreds of bucks cheaper as well.

Had expected more from Ryzen to he honest. They don't seem to able to compete in the game market, which I had expected.

#4341542 - 03/02/17 05:38 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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People seem to forget, the x86 Instruction Set (as well as x-86-64) are owned by Intel, and most if not all of these games are compiled using Intel's Compiler, so they will favor Intel a bit.

Some Synthetic Benchmarks are the same, but you cant really favor one or another in raw performance.

None of these games have been patched or even looked at code wise to make sure there isnt anythng that needs changed to accommodate AMD Processors.

Most of the gaming scores are affected by the Mainboard's used.

They are using Brand New Boards w/ Version 1.0 BIOS's vs Matured Intel Platform, and more than HALF of the reviews have stated to have compatibility issues with Memory Sticks etc and forced to run them at much slower speeds, which will affect gaming FPS more than Synthetic CPU Benchmarks.


These Numbers are right where I Expected them to be, once Board Manufacturers Update the BIOS' to fix alot of the Ram and PCIe Issues, and Developers give their games a look to make sure there's not a conflict somewhere, those numbers will go up for gaming FPS.


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#4341551 - 03/02/17 06:28 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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I'm glad for AMD fans and good bang for the buck and for the price competition for neutrals like me... but I should learn by now not to buy into the AMD "leak" hype, it was the same with the 480X (which was "leaked" as a 1080 competitor).

From the excitement in the leaks I was hoping for AMD to push the bar up to or past the i7-7700k level and put Intel on the defensive, but alas no, for a simmer/gamer like me it's about i5-6500 level performance:

https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/amd_ryzen_7_1800x_cpu_review/19



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#4341558 - 03/02/17 07:18 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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and if you wanna go by strictly gaming performance,

the much cheaper i5's still beat the $1000+ i7's in games,

Higher Thread Count doesnt mean more performance in applications that only use 3 or 4 threads.


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#4341562 - 03/02/17 07:50 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted by SkateZilla
and if you wanna go by strictly gaming performance, the much cheaper i5's still beat the $1000+ i7's in games,
Higher Thread Count doesnt mean more performance in applications that only use 3 or 4 threads.


Yeah agreed gaming isn't worth paying the extra amount for extra cores or hyperthreads, the performance is a wash with a few exceptions.

But Ryzen was leaked/hyped as beating the i5s for gaming and competing with top of the line i7s for synthetic benchmarks and transcoding, while it seems to fail on gaming and focused on the latter, which is disappointing to me and many others.

Here's hoping they get that fixed.


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#4341569 - 03/02/17 08:29 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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they never said the Ryzen 7s' would beat the i5's,

I'd assume the Ryzen 5s might, if they have higher clock rates.


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#4341570 - 03/02/17 08:36 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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None of this means crap to me till the mobos hit rev 3 and at least 4-6 bios's.





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#4341604 - 03/02/17 11:33 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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My take on what I’ve read regarding Ryzen 1800X performance.

Abstract:

So far, its about what I expected.

Full Text:

I’ll not bore with details. Better writers than I have expounded at the various review sites. I’m just summarizing my opinion (I have not run any tests, yet).

Ryzen 1800X wins a few and loses the rest, as expected, by me. At this point in the process, winning a few is important; but, losing the rest is less important. Why? Because the code in the various tests/games is optimized for Intel; but, not optimized for Ryzen.

The fact that Ryzen wins a few indicates to me that Ryzen hardware is on a par with Intel – not better, not equal, but very similar. Hardware on a par means core-for-core, clock-for-clock, thread-for-thread (to me). Ryzen actual application/game performance depends on optimized application/game code – of which, there is probably virtually none, yet.

As pointed out in some of the reviews, Ryzen is new hardware. Software must be updated to account for Ryzen features. Then, Ryzen should look better in benchmarks. Older software/games will not likely be changed – so Ryzen performance will not improve significantly on those. Still, as pointed out in some of the reviews, AMD is working with some developers to update code – as we “speak”.

Meantime, Ryzen seems fast enough to play everything at good FPS (not the fastest, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder). In a few situations, Ryzen 1800X virtually ties with I7 7700K because the test/game is apparently GPU limited. In some cases, Ryzen falls so far behind that I suspect non-optimized code.

However, at $500, Ryzen 1800X is not a cost effective “games only” CPU. Its strength shows in heavily threaded applications – there it is very cost effective. According to some of the articles, the high-end DX12 games seem to be moving towards multiple threads – and Ryzen did better in a couple of those.

Conclusion:

Thus, long term, Ryzen is on the right track, I think. We’ll see how it performs in a few months in tests with Ryzen optimized code. However, for games, quad-core is plenty today; thus, I do not expect Intel fans to “change sides” just yet smile

All this is “first day” opinion. We’ll see how I see it after I finish my build smile


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#4341675 - 03/03/17 07:10 AM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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if one wants to doubt how much of a winner Ryzen is for AMD.

In every one of those reviews, look at where the FX 8350/8370s sit.

Then tell me Ryzen isnt a competitor.


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#4341689 - 03/03/17 10:00 AM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted by SkateZilla
..In every one of those reviews, look at where the FX 8350/8370s sit...


Yes, for my own uses Ryzen seems a very good upgrade. Seems like it will out perform my FX9590 by more than I expected. As an AMD fan, I'm satisfied with this result.

And 1800X is faster than Intel in some practical applications (e.g. Blender 3D).

To repeat myself: Now that 8 core/16 thread has become affordable to an enthusiast/high-end-gamer, the high end games will start to use those 8 cores. For example, in my reading yesterday, it was stated that some games/applications were "coded down to 4 cores" -- merely because only 4 cores were available from Intel at a good price. The X-Plane site said they were using 1 thread per plane in the sky for a while now.


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#4341691 - 03/03/17 10:12 AM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Quote
AMD Ryzen 5 1600X & 1500X Detailed – 6 & 4 Core CPUs Coming In Q2 2017

..The company is finally back in the desktop CPU market with a truly competitive family of CPUs..

Ryzen 5 1600X <$300 6-core 12-thread CPU With 3.6GHz Base & 4.0GHz Boost
..
Ryzen 5 1500X ~$200 4-core 8-thread With 3.5GHz Base & 3.7GHz Boost...


Arriving by June or before.


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#4341693 - 03/03/17 10:20 AM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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More evidence that game/application code needs updating for Ryzen. That's normal when an all-new hardware architecture is released -- CPU or GPU.
Quote
AMD Ryzen Gaming Benchmarks Roundup, Disabling SMT Improves Performance In Some Games

Testing data suggests that AMD’s Ryzen 7 8-core parts actually perform better in a number games with simultaneous multi-threading disabled. A finding that’s reminiscent of past Windows scheduling issues that may need a patch to be resolved. Or, you can take matters into your own hands and manually disable SMT on a case by case basis...


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#4341699 - 03/03/17 11:21 AM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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AMD says that developers need to get a better handle on Ryzen

Performance differences are more of a software issue

As the reviews of Ryzen came out, it is pretty clear that there are some test scenarios where Intel chips work slightly better, and AMD claims that is due to coding issues.

..developers simply aren't used to AMD Ryzen yet, He said to fix this problem AMD's seeding of a targeted 1000+ developer systems in 2017 will help address the performance anomaly..

.. Bethesda has announced a strategic relationship with AMD to optimise for Ryzen CPUs .. for a new generation of games, DLC and VR experiences, he said..

Oxide Games .. public statement .. significant performance uplift observed when optimizing for the 8-core, 16-thread Ryzen 7 CPU design. These optimisations not yet reflected in Ashes of the Singularity benchmarking. Creative Assembly, developers of the Total War series, made a similar statement ..

CPU benchmarking deficits to the competition in certain games at 1080p resolution can be attributed to the development and optimization of the game uniquely to Intel platforms – until now.

Even without optimisations in place, Ryzen delivers high, smooth frame rates on all 'CPU-bound' games...

Article


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#4341705 - 03/03/17 11:43 AM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Wow, that is some fantastic news!

Perhaps a stupid question from a KSP player here, but since a lot of games are build on Unity, will all of those games improve if Unity gets more optimized, or will it still be a 'per developer' optimized thing?

@Skate: Any info if ED will improve AMD performance to bring it on par with Intel performance, for 2.5?

#4341741 - 03/03/17 01:45 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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#4341758 - 03/03/17 02:45 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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My take:

Is Ryzen a Core killer? No. I didn't expect it to be, despite hype from some quarters, and I wasn't wrong. Intel isn't going to fall on its sword over this.

Is Ryzen a good AMD alternative to Core CPUs? Yes. If your focus is not gaming but multiple types of tasks, Ryzen can get you equivalent or at times better performance for much less cash than Intel's ridiculously pricey options. Intel may see a drop in sales in the already niche market of people willing to pay $1000+ for a CPU going for a $500 Ryzen instead. This is a low-volume, high-margin market, so Intel won't see a big revenue drop but will see a noticeable dent in profits for that segment.

Is Ryzen a good choice for a gaming CPU? Depends. What is your budget and what performance are you looking to get? I think people who specifically do not want an Intel CPU can now game without sacrificing performance for their principles smile but Intel will continue to hold the crown for the near future. Developer engagement and compiler optimization could bring this more level, but I doubt we'll ever see Ryzen beating Kaby Lake across the board, even if it's single-digit percentages faster.

Intel is still #1, but if this were an auto race AMD is no longer not just 2nd but a lap down, they're actually in Intel's wake and poised to make a move should Intel falter, right on their bumper at times. Intel can't coast along on cruise control and expect to win, they're going to have to work for it now.



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#4341765 - 03/03/17 03:09 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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An earlier question was about Mini-ITX. I noted I had not seen one yet. Now, I know why -- according to this article there were none smile

Quote
BIOSTAR shows off first X370 mini-ITX motherboard


Mini-ITX Article


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