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#4336195 - 02/10/17 10:25 PM Re: LN confirms F-14 for 2017 [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted By: - Ice
Originally Posted By: bkthunder

To put it simply, yes.
I am a pilot and my father is an aerodynamicist, so I think that gives you an idea...

Sure, sure, but are you a MiG-21 pilot? No? Then what makes you qualified to comment on said systems and FM?
biggrin behindcouch


You are right Ice, I'm no MiG-21 pilot, I am just an ill-intentioned impostor. That's why I am here, in this "less reputable" forum biggrin

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4336199 - 02/10/17 10:48 PM Re: LN confirms F-14 for 2017 [Re: straycat]  
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You got that right, mister!! So shut yer trap if ye don't know wat yer talkin' bout!!

These developers have active and retired pilots who have actually been in the aircraft and have operated said aircraft and so if they say it's "spot-on," it is spot on no matter what other documents or common sense would say. We all know how closely ED works with people who actually deal with the aircraft they feature on their modules, we all know how ED respectfully listens to and takes into account any and all input from these valuable members of the community. While ED may censor armchair combat aviators such as yourself, we all know they do not do so for the more reputable and respected members of the DCS community! That is why the ED forums is the "more reputable" forum where constructive criticisms thrive and educational discussions are the norm.

biggrin behindcouch


- Ice
#4336204 - 02/10/17 11:13 PM Re: LN confirms F-14 for 2017 [Re: straycat]  
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Good news!
Can F-14 they're going to simulate drop dumb bomb or is it dedicated to air dominance like F-15C?

#4336221 - 02/11/17 12:34 AM Re: LN confirms F-14 for 2017 [Re: - Ice]  
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Jetronic Offline
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Originally Posted By: - Ice


These developers have active and retired pilots who have actually been in the aircraft and have operated said aircraft and so if they say it's "spot-on," it is spot on no matter what other documents or common sense would say.
biggrin behindcouch


Indeed, all 15 plus dramatically different versions of the MIg-21 flight models we've have so far have all been spot on accurate notworthy

#4336262 - 02/11/17 04:24 AM Re: LN confirms F-14 for 2017 [Re: straycat]  
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In simulation it's not possible to have every aspect spot on.

simulation

n.
The act or process of simulating.
n.
An imitation; a sham.
n.
Assumption of a false appearance.

Last edited by Nodak01; 02/11/17 04:24 AM.
#4336276 - 02/11/17 07:47 AM Re: LN confirms F-14 for 2017 [Re: Jetronic]  
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Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: - Ice


These developers have active and retired pilots who have actually been in the aircraft and have operated said aircraft and so if they say it's "spot-on," it is spot on no matter what other documents or common sense would say.
biggrin behindcouch


Indeed, all 15 plus dramatically different versions of the MIg-21 flight models we've have so far have all been spot on accurate notworthy


Lol, so true.

#4336278 - 02/11/17 07:54 AM Re: LN confirms F-14 for 2017 [Re: Nodak01]  
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bkthunder Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nodak01
In simulation it's not possible to have every aspect spot on.

simulation

n.
The act or process of simulating.
n.
An imitation; a sham.
n.
Assumption of a false appearance.


I agree. This is an example of a good imitation.


This is an example of a bad imitation. It looks great, I agree, but it's not very realistic...



Can we then agree that you can have good and bad imitations, just like you can have good and bad simulations?

Last edited by bkthunder; 02/11/17 07:58 AM. Reason: found better picture
#4336309 - 02/11/17 12:34 PM Re: LN confirms F-14 for 2017 [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted By: - Ice
These developers have active and retired pilots who have actually been in the aircraft and have operated said aircraft and so if they say it's "spot-on," it is spot on no matter what other documents or common sense would say.


I just don't agree. IMO there are three kind of RL testers :
- The i don't like virtual thing guy and no matter how bad or good the platform might be he will always complain that it does not reflect all the complexity that exist in real life and even so it does not reflect how the body feels.
- The conflict of interest guy which is usually the kind of guy that these programmers have, most of time they will give their honest feedback to the developers but if questioned from outsiders he will always be so gently in those feedback and hardly fully negative (they will simply not ruin the marketing).
- For last but not least the neutral guy, usually someone that enjoys virtual things but has no conflict of interest (neither know the dev nor receive any money/copies from them), he will not hold himself back from slash when the feedback is negative nor will over exaggerate anything just to push the market. Be in mind that even these are still human so the fanboy factor can still strike them.

So i'm sorry but i do not buy into marketing or conflict of interest talk, people who words can put them in trouble will always measure the words before it comes from their mouth (saw many time people saying something in front of the media that is way different from what they really believe just to avoid any headache).

Be sure that even 20+ years ago you will find interview of RL pilots saying that a given platform (consumer or professional) is pretty realistic even though it was not.

Last edited by xXNightEagleXx; 02/11/17 12:50 PM.
#4336314 - 02/11/17 12:49 PM Re: LN confirms F-14 for 2017 [Re: straycat]  
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For me it is really hard to even think to buy the F-14 module, because:
1. It is part of DCS which it's self explanatory.
2. It is from LN the dev who made the MIG-21 which is not great
3. No LN module feels like done even after years of development.
4. It is supposed to be an aircraft who arm the AIM-54 but currently even the AIM-120 is not working properly (actually no BVR missile does). I buy aircraft/platform for their realism of all kind and i buy military aircraft for war conflicts if i see no proper and realistic application for the conflict i see no reason to buy that either.

I would say that maybe if this was a BelsimTek module it would be more credible but being any other 3rd party module then it's really hard to give them any credibility and inject money to these devs because none of them really released a module in GOLD state but either alpha labeled as beta or beta labeled as gold.

#4336320 - 02/11/17 01:13 PM Re: LN confirms F-14 for 2017 [Re: xXNightEagleXx]  
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Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Indeed, all 15 plus dramatically different versions of the MIg-21 flight models we've have so far have all been spot on accurate notworthy

Ah, you're new here so I'll explain this for you. We all know that nothing can be 100% accurate, so the first flight model was 98% accurate, then the next one was 98.12% accurate, then the next one was 98.24% accurate. Each "fix" is more accurate-er than the previous one, so you should be happy that they're constantly working on the FM. Also, all the new "fixes" that gets introduced in the base game means that this allows the devs to make the FM even more accurate-est as time goes on! All good things! biggrin


Originally Posted By: xXNightEagleXx
- The conflict of interest guy which is usually the kind of guy that these programmers have, most of time they will give their honest feedback to the developers but if questioned from outsiders he will always be so gently in those feedback and hardly fully negative (they will simply not ruin the marketing).

That shouldn't be the case. If a guy is hired to bring credibility to the aircraft's FM, then the end product should be bullet-proof. He can, should, and should be encouraged to find faults in the FM.... that's the whole point of his job. He should also be an "unknown" to the outside world that way he can't be put on the spot. If all the talks to are the devs, then there'll be no conflict of interest.

If they then want a RL pilot to give his thoughts, get ANOTHER guy, have him publicly try out the sim, and then give his thoughts.... but keep the "public tester" and "private tester" separate.


Originally Posted By: xXNightEagleXx
For me it is really hard to even think to buy the F-14 module, because:

Irrelevant. The F-14 can fly like something out of the Hot Shots movie and I'll still buy it. Who cares about accuracy and high fidelity if you're in a Tomcat? biggrin

*Luckily, someone over at BMS is also working on the Tomcat so it'll be best of both worlds!


- Ice
#4336333 - 02/11/17 02:12 PM Re: LN confirms F-14 for 2017 [Re: Nodak01]  
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Jetronic Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nodak01
In simulation it's not possible to have every aspect spot on.

simulation

n.
The act or process of simulating.
n.
An imitation; a sham.
n.
Assumption of a false appearance.



missingthepoint

n.
Nodak01

Joking aside, I'm still happy to buy modules from BST, ED and most probably RAZBAM as they can turn out decently simulated aircraft. It's become abundantly clear that LN are only capable of drawing pretty pictures and are massively lacking everywhere else, and the rest of the 3rd parties, well the less said the better.

Ideally the guy who does the BST and ED FM's (which i believe is the same guy) would do all the FM's.

#4336353 - 02/11/17 04:50 PM Re: LN confirms F-14 for 2017 [Re: Jetronic]  
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Originally Posted By: Jetronic

Ideally the guy who does the BST and ED FM's (which i believe is the same guy) would do all the FM's.


BST have their own FM guy.

#4336359 - 02/11/17 05:30 PM Re: LN confirms F-14 for 2017 [Re: Jetronic]  
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Originally Posted By: Jetronic
.. It's become abundantly clear that LN are only capable of drawing pretty pictures and are massively lacking everywhere else, and the rest of the 3rd parties, well the less said the better...


Been flying AJS-37 the last 24 hours and I can assure you LN has gone pretty deep on the systems (with consideration some missing aspects being early access) and is very far from pretty pictures only.
(But I still think it should be labeled "1.5.6 beta" in the DCS main menu)

The 45deg AoA Fishbed is a shame though, almost a showstopper (AI wise it is, to me).

#4336379 - 02/11/17 07:33 PM Re: LN confirms F-14 for 2017 [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted By: - Ice

Originally Posted By: xXNightEagleXx
For me it is really hard to even think to buy the F-14 module, because:


Irrelevant. The F-14 can fly like something out of the Hot Shots movie and I'll still buy it. Who cares about accuracy and high fidelity if you're in a Tomcat? biggrin


LOL, good hint for a future... War Thundner plane. hahaha

#4336380 - 02/11/17 07:37 PM Re: LN confirms F-14 for 2017 [Re: Sokol1]  
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Originally Posted By: Sokol1
LOL, good hint for a future... War Thundner plane. hahaha

I'd fly that! biggrin
And we'll probably get it before the DCS version!


- Ice
#4336554 - 02/12/17 01:12 PM Re: LN confirms F-14 for 2017 [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
^You Must've drank your Dig at VEAO Coffee this morning...


and here she is with another crack....what's the best you can throw at me?? another life time ban over at ED?

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