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#4327134 - 01/09/17 12:22 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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And, here's another increment of knowledge:

Quote:
AMD Vega 10 GPU With 8GB HBM2 Powered DOOM 4K Vulkan Demo, Should Outperform GTX 1080 In OpenGL Too

.. interview with AMDs head of Radeon Technologies Group, Raja Koduri, it was revealed that the impressive 4K/60FPS+ DOOM demo that the company showcased was in fact running on the companys brand new high-end Vega 10 GPU, ..

..Vega 10 should in fact beat the GTX 1080 running at the same 4K resolution..at lower resolutions where the game is more CPU bound there would be less of a performance differential between the two..


Emphasis has been on AMD Vulcan performance in public demos -- because Vulcan performance is a strength of Polaris and Vega. The article says the advantage in OpenGL exists but is less because AMD is not putting valuable time into optimizing the performance for "out of date" OpenGL.

All in all, from the tone of articles, I am guessing that Nvidia's best cards will have an advantage in DX11 and maybe OpenGL. I am guessing AMD will have a small advantage in DX12 and Vulcan by some "measures". "Measures" vary -- i.e. absolute FPS, FPS per clock, bang for buck, etc. Each of us has our own "measure". So, we'll see.


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#4327196 - 01/09/17 03:21 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Something based on AMD management statements:

Quote:
AMD Zen Architecture For RYZEN and Naples Processors Will Last Four Years on 14nm Future Zen+ Revisions To Improve Architecture

AMD has confirmed that their Zen CPU architecture for RYZEN processors is expected to last four years. It took AMD four years to develop Zen and it will take another four for Zen to complete its shelve time..

..When asked how long Zen would last, compared to Intels two-year tick-tock cadence, Papermaster confirmed the four-year lifespan and tapped the table in front of him: Were not going tick-tock, he said. Zen is going to be tock, tock, tock. via PCWorld..

..A tock cycle represents a new architecture while a tick cycle represents a process shrink..

[Same Zen CPU core design from fanless notebooks to supercomputers]...


Article

There will be 4 years between AMD "tocks". During that time there will be improvments -- but, the underlying fundamental architecture and process node (e.g. 14nm) will remain during the 4 years. Intel has been changing architecture, then shrinking without large architecture improvement over approximately 4 years (tick 2 years plus tock 2 years -- nothing wrong with the Intel method -- just different). So, for both AMD and Intel, it has been roughly 4 years between major improvements. That will continue -- or so it seems today.

A nice thing about AMD, so far, has been that motherboards last through CPU improvements. So, my original MB for the FX8150 has lasted for FX8350 and FX9590 -- and, on paper, still works with the previous Phenom CPU series. Another "bang for buck" feature of AMD.

Apparently, the tradition of allowing easy relatively-cheap upgrades (just buy new CPU and exchange it with the old one) will continue.


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#4327210 - 01/09/17 03:49 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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To me the BIG question will be:

Has AMD marketing learned how to sell on AMD's strengths and avoid comparisons where they are weak?

Naturally this depends on the performance and pricing of the final silicon, and I wonder if the past hasn't seen some real disconnects between what marketing was being told and the reality of the products.

They need to sell what they have, not what they thought or wished they had. While we all wish they could come out with products that would meet or beat Intel's and nvidia's, that's not as important as them selling what they do have at a healthy profit with decent market share. Granted there is a lot of possible overlap in that, but it's not necessarily 100%.

For example, if they had a card at say the 1060's price point that was 15% better in most every way, and they had a good supply of it, that would be good for them, even if they couldn't match the 1070 or 1080 in the same way.




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#4327327 - 01/09/17 08:08 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
To me the BIG question will be:...


Agree, that is the question. As I often say, "we'll see" smile


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#4327528 - 01/10/17 10:33 AM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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On the competition front:

Quote:
GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Will Be Landing Around PAX East (March 10th) According To NVIDIA AIB Employee

..In what appears to be a textbook case of game theory applied to the two chip manufacturers, NVIDIA has pushed back the date of release to put some more polish on the GTX 1080 Ti as they wait for AMD to make a move and enjoy a couple more months of GTX 1080 holding the performance crown uncontested..

..it makes no sense for NVIDIA to reveal the 1080 Ti now, and cannibalize sales of the TITAN X..

..the Vega GPU will offer higher performance than the GTX 1080 which means NVIDIA needs to respond with a consumer variant that offers comparable or higher performance immediately or before the fact, or risk losing market share. One thing is for sure though, Vegas pricing will definitely increase the purchasing power of the average gamer. If Vega is priced correctly, (and there is no reason to assume it wont be), then it will force NVIDIA to slash pricing on the GTX 1080 and offer the GTX 1080 Ti for a premium, because at the end of the day when the dust settles on a pricing war, the consumer wins...


The interesting viewpoint of this article: Without AMD, Intel and Nvidia would be releasing new stuff MUCH more slowly and charging MUCH more for it. Nvidia fans need AMD -- AMD fans need Nvidia and Intel.

Competition is good smile


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#4327564 - 01/10/17 01:12 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: Allen]  
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Competition is good

Agreed and one of the big reasons I watch this thread and board is you two AMD fans great info.



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#4327659 - 01/10/17 06:37 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: Allen]  
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Originally Posted By: Allen

The interesting viewpoint of this article: Without AMD, Intel and Nvidia would be releasing new stuff MUCH more slowly and charging MUCH more for it. Nvidia fans need AMD -- AMD fans need Nvidia and Intel.

Competition is good smile


I'd agree with that to a point. Nvidia fans don't need AMD at all.......they get massive performance and pay through the nose for it.

AMD fans are stuck in a world of much lesser performance.

The key point which I actually think you have missed through your AMD tinted spectacles is that the sane gamer needs both AMD and Nvidia to compete to bring both performance up and prices down because the person driven by performance and value doesn't care about brand names. Let's be honest Allen (and I'm not being rude here).....regardless of what value, performance or otherwise Nvidia release you're only looking at AMD anyway even if Nvidia were to produce something that beats Vega at less cost.


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#4327663 - 01/10/17 07:05 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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with no competition, there will be no incentive to keep prices managable nor incentive to actually pay R&D..

So.. You'd Get GTX-1180s for $2000, and no incentive to improve on anything...

if AMD doesnt compete, nVidia and Intel customers will start to get price Gouged.


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#4327676 - 01/10/17 07:55 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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I think that already happened!


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#4327681 - 01/10/17 07:58 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: Paradaz]  
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Originally Posted By: Paradaz
...Nvidia fans don't need AMD at all.......they get massive performance and pay through the nose for it...


The article's direction and my belief is that without AMD, Nvidia fans (and non-aligned shoppers) would not even be looking at 1080Ti in 2017. We'd still be in the 900 series or earlier at a much higher price for the top units (they would have cheaper units for folks who could not afford over $1000 for a GPU).

So, I think all consumers need direct, close competition among products -- not just for cost -- but to have the best possible products in front of them to buy.

I imagine/speculate that in the total absence of competition from AMD (i.e. AMD does not exist) over the last decade, GPU buyers would not even know that "things could have been much better" (as they actually are today).

My opinion, of course smile


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#4327683 - 01/10/17 08:01 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Quote:
AMDs New Vega High Bandwidth Cache Controller Will Double Your Usable Graphics Memory Capacity In Games

..Thats right. An 8GB Vega graphics card, just as an example, will be effectively have as much usable memory as a 16GB graphics card. Its all thanks to the companys brand new High Bandwidth Cache Controller at the heart of every Vega graphics chip...


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#4327703 - 01/10/17 08:33 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
with no competition, there will be no incentive to keep prices managable nor incentive to actually pay R&D..

So.. You'd Get GTX-1180s for $2000, and no incentive to improve on anything...

if AMD doesnt compete, nVidia and Intel customers will start to get price Gouged.


I don't think that's really a concern because sales would simply plummet instead. While there will always be a gullible sliver who will buy anything at any price, there are mostly people who will pay what they think is worthwhile.

We could never have a world of $50,000 Toyota Corollas just because there were no Civics or Malibus or Fiats since most people couldn't afford a $50k car to begin with. They'd just buy the cheaper cars instead. Instead of a $2k 1180, people would go for the under-$500 1160 or 1150 or whatever. People won't get loans for a GPU. Either they keep the prices reasonable or sales will dwindle to nothing.

Now, what we WILL get is what we are already seeing. Minor iterations on an existing product that offer only the most meager of updates in the same price range. Look at the Intel CPU line. There are people still running Sandy Bridge CPUs because they OC'd them without issue and can still run the latest games just fine with a late-model GPU. There have been literally 5 new series of CPUs released since Sandy Bridge and they only offer minor increases in speed overall, with stock clocks actually improving more than the IPC and other architectural improvements have achieved. So if you can clock your SB at 4.5GHZ and keep it there, there's no reason to get a Kaby Lake!

AMD's existence has kept the price ranges of those products in check, but has done nothing to spur any innovation.



The Jedi Master


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#4327712 - 01/10/17 08:46 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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there would be low price point options, and they'll most likely be gimped and outdated versions, while the upper price point options are the new things.


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#4328017 - 01/12/17 01:25 AM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Quote:
AMD Ryzen 4 Core CPUs Begin Sampling, Will Take On Intels i3 & i5

AMD has reportedly begun sampling 4 core, 4 thread Ryzen CPUs . These new quad cores have multi-threading disabled and will be the companys entry-level Ryzen processors set to take on Intels i5 and i3 chips on the desktop.

Affordable, Fully Unlocked 45W Ryzen Quad Cores For The Masses

..[All Ryzen/Zen] will have unlocked multipliers and will feature full overclocking support on X370 and B350 chipset AM4 motherboards. This will perhaps make them the most potent gaming chips in their class, especially considering Intels entire i5 and i3 lineups are locked. Save for one SKU each, which the company [Intel] sells at a premium..

[3.4GHz minimum clocks]...


Article says 6 core is coming also. These are to launch a month or more after the first Ryzen "top of the line" CPUs.


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#4328037 - 01/12/17 02:31 AM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Im Hearing Launch Before GDC.


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#4328131 - 01/12/17 04:51 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Im Hearing Launch Before GDC.


Good catch.

Quote:
AMD accidently announces Ryzen launch date

AMD indicated that the official Ryzen launch date will be sometime before March. [just prior to GDC]..

..GDC event runs from 27 February to 3 March...


Quote:
AMDs High-Performance Vega GPUs To Launch in May Up To 8 GB HBM2 VRAM, 4096 Cores, Aimed at 4K AAA and VR Gaming


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#4328154 - 01/12/17 06:05 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Likely a Paper Launch, but at this point, it's better than NO_LAUNCH = TRUE <>


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#4328730 - 01/15/17 05:33 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Waiting for the next AMD video cards to upgrade.


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#4328972 - 01/17/17 12:23 AM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Quote:
AMDs Infinity Fabric Detailed The Innovative, Real-World Implementation of The Companys Perfect Lego Philosophy

..So what is the big deal about it? Well, even if you are to leave all the high level talk behind, one of the biggest impacts of Infinity Fabric is that it will allow AMD to fully utilize DRAM available to any SoC or GPU. This means that textbook and theoretical performance limits will be achievable and will result in an overall power efficient architectural design.

Secondly if you take a look at the slides, you will notice how the Infinity Fabric is now so much more than just HyperTransport. It is the physical implementation of AMDs all-encompassing Lego philosophy, for lack of a better word, where everything is fully scalable and a 100% flexible..

..this would only solidify AMDs position in the console market because the company will literally be handing them all the flexibility they could ever ask for.


Found on Ryzen, Vega, the article explains the advantages over the classic Intel way, among other things. But, there is tech talk (high level talk) involved that I can't summarize (or even completely understand -- as it is not my specialty).

Article


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#4329181 - 01/17/17 08:04 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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