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#4255119 - 05/02/16 03:34 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? ***** [Re: TerribleTwo]  
Joined: Feb 2000
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Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
Jedi Master  Offline
Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
I will clarify that by "modern sims" I don't mean "1980s-era jets/helos and later", I mean sims released post 2008 or so.
CloD, DCS World, Il-2: BoS, ROF...

Now all these sims have been developed in the East and not in the West, so I don't know if there's a cultural bias as well involved here, where their interests/focus just naturally differ from what Western devs were at and therefore led to a different result.
The original Il-2 and ROF to their credit did implement an attempt at bridging some of that gap via campaigns/careers that didn't originally ship. Each successive sim, though, has made it seem like we're being irrational in asking to have the same features the older sims had.

If we acknowledge the funding/development difficulties in giving us a remade older sim in DX12 with EDGE and multiple airplanes (in other words, EAW or BMS at a professional commercial level) that prevents us from getting that, maybe we can figure out where we need to start at and then evolve to the ultimate sim later. BMS and EECH both proved you can take a sim with minor realism and patch it in later on top of the fun elements. As long as the hooks for it exist, you can add a better FM or DM or weapons or whatever later. It seems you can't make a procedures trainer and add fun later.

I think Back to Baghdad had proved that 20 years ago, but no one remembered that lesson.




The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4277990 - 07/11/16 12:59 AM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 8
GDoggyC Offline
Junior Member
GDoggyC  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 8
Rocket science never is rocket science unless yr a rocket scientist yawn

#4288531 - 08/19/16 12:07 AM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: Jedi Master]  
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,257
777 Studios - Jason Offline
Senior Member
777 Studios - Jason  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,257
Southern California or Moscow
Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
I will clarify that by "modern sims" I don't mean "1980s-era jets/helos and later", I mean sims released post 2008 or so.
CloD, DCS World, Il-2: BoS, ROF...

Now all these sims have been developed in the East and not in the West, so I don't know if there's a cultural bias as well involved here, where their interests/focus just naturally differ from what Western devs were at and therefore led to a different result.
The original Il-2 and ROF to their credit did implement an attempt at bridging some of that gap via campaigns/careers that didn't originally ship. Each successive sim, though, has made it seem like we're being irrational in asking to have the same features the older sims had.

If we acknowledge the funding/development difficulties in giving us a remade older sim in DX12 with EDGE and multiple airplanes (in other words, EAW or BMS at a professional commercial level) that prevents us from getting that, maybe we can figure out where we need to start at and then evolve to the ultimate sim later. BMS and EECH both proved you can take a sim with minor realism and patch it in later on top of the fun elements. As long as the hooks for it exist, you can add a better FM or DM or weapons or whatever later. It seems you can't make a procedures trainer and add fun later.

I think Back to Baghdad had proved that 20 years ago, but no one remembered that lesson.




The Jedi Master


Western investors and publishers simply see no money in it outside of the civvy sims and they would be largely correct.

The Eastern teams each have different approaches to the genre and they have found either a niche to make money or a niche to survive because they love the subject matter. There is some national pride that goes into it too, but the end goal is to always make money or a living.

There clearly are some talented people in the West who can do sims. Just look at BMS, Team Fusion etc. But there is generally no funding available to go pro. Building a sim from complete scratch is really hard work too this is why they are rare.

Jason

#4305571 - 10/22/16 10:55 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,204
DrZebra Offline
crash-professional
DrZebra  Offline
crash-professional
Member

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,204
steppe
I think the online numbers are getting better...

unfortunately though, the score-statistics are full of hicups sometimes:

#4320331 - 12/16/16 11:06 AM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 795
leaf_on_the_wind Offline
Member
leaf_on_the_wind  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 795
My best guess as to why more are not playing online most likely because they do not enjoy the game



Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4320404 - 12/16/16 03:12 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,402
Pooch Offline
Hotshot
Pooch  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,402
Orlando, FL
For online wargaming people seem to be gravitating towards the free games such as War Thunder, World of Warships...etc. Hell, I'm going to have to admit that I'm one of them.
What they do, they do well. They are fun and trouble free. You don't worry about having the latest patch, looking for the new mod that improves the clouds, grabbing the new update that fixes the broken FM's....etc., etc....
You jump in and play the game.
I recently decided to go back to CLod. Used to enjoy it. I installed it, but then had to get the Fusion patch. I had a hell of a time downloading and it has to be installed in sections. So I get part of it in and find that I have bad download. I remove it, try again but it won't work and I gave up. I uninstalled CLod. I just don't have the patience I used to have for doing that kind of thing anymore.
Not saying that's the major reason for the drop in online players. But I'm sure it contributes to it.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4328721 - 01/15/17 05:13 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: Targ]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,076
Nodak01 Offline
Senior Member
Nodak01  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,076
coyote country
Originally Posted By: Targ
The biggest problem with flight sims these days is the flight sim community.

There are way to many bitter and angry people poisoning the community for it to grow anymore.



A great game will sell itself despite, the biggest problem with this game is there's plenty of great competition still out there, people have other options. Why would anyone in their right mind want to fly the P-40 in this sim when there's the vanilla Il-2's. Not even the AI can fly that turd in this sim.

#4345406 - 03/19/17 02:56 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,204
DrZebra Offline
crash-professional
DrZebra  Offline
crash-professional
Member

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,204
steppe
The real question is why aren´t more able to play different sides, online.. LW dwarfs everthing!


#4347389 - 03/28/17 05:09 AM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: DrZebra]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,202
wheelsup_cavu Offline
Lifer
wheelsup_cavu  Offline
Lifer

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,202
Corona, California
Originally Posted by DrZebra
The real question is why aren´t more able to play different sides, online.. LW dwarfs everthing!

Code
[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CbwBxkVoDY[/video]

Without a rudder, ailerons, or elevators that Ju-88 should have kept on going down.


Wheels


Cheers wave
Wheelsup_cavu

Mission4Today (Campaigns, Missions, and Skins for IL-2)
Planes of Fame Air Museum | March Field Air Museum | Palm Springs Air Museum
#4350713 - 04/12/17 05:03 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2
Hutzlipuh Offline
Junior Member
Hutzlipuh  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2
The main problem i perceive ( as an old-timer coming from il2 and even older sims) is the general game-setup in multiplayer.
-too many dogfight servers with thrown in ground targets for added spice, many of the missions with bugs preventing a win for one or the other side or are unbalanced (should take into account different ground attack capabilities of the nations)
-no possibility of hosting co-op missions like in the old il2
-big cpu-load on servers which try to simulate ground-war with air-support (looking at the finnish server which regularly craps out / no offense to the fantastic idea behind it, but the game just cant handle things like that).
-no dynamic campaign that can run on its own for extended time without fiddling around with rules,stats,missions...
at the moment the game is basically warthunder 2.0....

#4355106 - 05/03/17 01:24 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 111,151
PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Online Centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 111,151
Miami, FL USA
Agree 100% with you Hutzlipuh.


The no possibility of hosting co-op missions is a real deal breaker for me. I will consider buying the game if and when that feature is fully implemented in a future patch.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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