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#4416152 - 04/13/18 04:09 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kbird]  
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Hi Kbird,

Motherboard Ejoy V3 Can receive :
(4) tle5010
(5) 74hc165 SR ( use as keyboard get 128 keys) (*** I think this might be 120keys ? ie (5) x 24 outputs per board or 8 per SR Chip )
+4 Cool hat.

And

Ejoy Board PCB =$25
(4) TLE5010 Boards =$22
(5) 74HC165 Keypad =$22

25+22+22=69$ this is set price.



Hi guys , Tammy the Seller of the TLE5010 Boards etc now has a New link up for a "Complete Package" too as mentioned above , I Ordered mine and it has shipped , so hopefully I will
see it in a few Weeks rather that Months, as i tried the HongKong Post method instead of the Free Shipping , as only the US currently has the special fast Shipping Option.

Check it out here :

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TLE5010-digital-mode-magnetoresistive-angle-sensor/32634095245.html


KB


My FLCS+TQS Conversion here on SimHQ

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4324940/1
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4417452 - 04/23/18 04:11 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kbird]  
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Well,
It's late, I'm tried and going to bed, but I just wanted to say that the TQS is hooked up (not buttoned up yet, but all the wires are hooked up and all pots and 10 buttons work!) and functioning correctly. I have a lot of questions. I'll try and type them all out tomorrow, but for starters, Sokol, somewhere you mention with regards to replacing the mouse in the TQS, that I could use either an analog hat switch or a digital hat switch. It think you said with the analog, I could still keep the 10x1 setup and not have to use a button matrix. Can I ask why that is. And would the 5 way hat switch that you mentioned above be digital or analog (ALPS RKJXL 5 way switch )?

Thx...more tomorrow....lots of ideas and questions about how I want to "tweak" the TQS.

Thx again to all of you. I've been playing Elite so much with my FLCS (and having a blast) that I have not had time to get to the TQS, but this weekend I said, I just had to sit down and finish it....I need a better throttle and the Nostromo game pad I'm using (which is great for FPS, but not so much for flight combat.

Thanks again all!

#4417471 - 04/23/18 12:15 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Slarti]  
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Originally Posted by Slarti
Well,
Sokol, somewhere you mention with regards to replacing the mouse in the TQS, that I could use either an analog hat switch or a digital hat switch. It think you said with the analog, I could still keep the 10x1 setup and not have to use a button matrix. Can I ask why that is. And would the 5 way hat switch that you mentioned above be digital or analog (ALPS RKJXL 5 way switch )?


ALPS RKJXL 5 ways is a digital (buttons) switch (like a POV HAT), for use one you need increase the actual (10x1) matrix size, because are increasing 4 buttons. Other option is re-use the POV HAT from a defective joystick. Or can make one with 4 tactile micro switches.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/100Pcs-Mom...h-2-Pin-Right-Angle-6x6x9mm/172418716968

Analog option is use a PS3 like mini-stick (thumb-stick), 2 axis + 1 button, this don't require change in (10x1) matrix.

An recommended mini-stick is this replacement model for PS3 because use HALL sensor instead ordinary potentiometer. Notice the 4 pins in each sensor - but you will use only 3.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-pin-Anal...ial-Dual-Shock-3-Controller/331729527637

But... smile for use this mini-stick require build a signal amplifier with LM358 + MC3202, look at MMJoy folder PCB the file "PS3_stick_4pin+mcp3202+LM358.lay6" (can open with Sprint Layout Viewer).

The advantage in use this mini-stick is be a (theoretically) "spike" free device and last longer than pot versions. But no need say that is an "complicated" option.

K.I.S.S. option: use a potentiometer based mini-stick - no additional parts required, neither changes in (10x1) matrix connections, here a example of installation in cougar TQS (ignore the BU0836 part, you don't need this, as MMjoy2 provide extra axes):

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=185698

The only recommendation is: make the mini-stick installation easy to be replaced when their pot's worn out.

For mini-stick cap are several models in eBay, e.g.:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/8pcs-Silic...Caps-For-PS4-PS3-Controller/183173382278

Or can 3D print one, e.g.

Spider web (early F-16 TQS):

https://www.shapeways.com/product/6X3VX2CQR/cougar-cursor?optionId=61626021

Concentric circles (latter F-16 TQS):

https://www.shapeways.com/product/CJ6LZXYQ6/cougar-cursor?optionId=61626030

BTW - If you prefer ALPS has models of mini-stick without center click - since click with analog mini-stick in positions other than in center may disturb the cursor position.

https://br.mouser.com/new/ALPS-Electric/alps-electric-RK-potentiometer/

ALPS RKJXK series is rated to 100.000 cycles.
ALPS RKJXP series is rated to 1.000.000 cycles.


An very small mini-stick (base height 5mm) with and without center click:

https://docs-emea.rs-online.com/webdocs/15e2/0900766b815e288e.pdf

#4417570 - 04/24/18 03:39 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kbird]  
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Don't you need a Matrix ( and thus Diodes ) if you have more than 10 Buttons Sokol1 ?....... Or use a Shift Register like the 74HC165 instead

Been a year since I did mine and I think this was an early issue I had as you can only allocate 10 Columns max. in MMJoy2

KB.


My FLCS+TQS Conversion here on SimHQ

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4324940/1
#4417591 - 04/24/18 07:09 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kbird]  
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Yes, if column or line number is limited to 10 for use more than 10 buttons may will be need add diodes to avoid ghost press.

#4418167 - 04/27/18 09:46 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Sokol1]  
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So I still haven't quite buttoned things up yet. It's all working and all I have to do is splice in the USB Cable. I'm thinking of using the original TQS cable, but it has a ton of wires in it and I only need 5 I think....KB, what did u use?

So here are some of my other thoughts.
1. I'm going to be using this for Elite Dangerous for the foreseeable future and I thought a sliding throttle as opposed to a rotating throttle might be nice, similar to the TM VG TWCS Throttle Controller (2960754). There's a great youtube video where a guy takes this apart. Anyway, any ideas on how to take the existing TQS and setup some type of rail system for it to slide forward and backwards on?

2. I'm liking the idea of adding more buttons (I still may initially go the SW route that Sokol suggested) so as I'm chewing this in my head and thinking of the link to the shift registers from ali express that KB posted about an idea hits me. Could I reuse a set of shift registers from a spare FLCS? What would be involved in that? I think that would allow me to add up to an addition 12 buttons since the FLCS has ( I think) 22.... i.e. I take the SR circuit out of the FLCS, rewire all buttons in the TQS to the SR (10 currently) and then have the ability to add 12 additional buttons (Maybe 2 4way hats and 4 other direct buttons)

3. KB, I have the range and antenna on the TQS. these are useful for the jet sims for exactly what they are described as, changing the radar range and antenna direction. I'm not sure what I could do with these in Elite (I'm open to any suggestions), so I'm thinking of maybe putting in 4 way hat switches...

4. Detent. I'd really like to setup the TQS to function as a forward backwards throttle. How would I go about trying to add a center detent? Conversly, if I can't get that working I'm thinking of using the SB Momentary switch as a "reverse" button so that when I hold the button back and push the throttle forward I'm going in reverse. I'll have to experiment with that as it will need to work that way initially anyway.

Talk to you guys soon!

EDIT: KB, One other thing. Were you ever able to figure out how to tell if the x-fighter joystick was the good one (like you have) or the not so good one? Is it a difference in bases? I ask because I'm seeing some cheap on e-bay or Craig's list and I'd rather make sure I'm getting the one like you have (heavy base, stiff gimbal)

EDIT 2:
My recently convered FLCS is getting looser and looser around the center. I'm going to break it open and see why this is happening. Worst case, this becomes the spare and I move the RobotDyn micro out to one of my other FLCSs. Both of those are very tight around the center.

Last edited by Slarti; 04/27/18 10:02 PM.
#4418226 - 04/28/18 12:59 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Slarti]  
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Originally Posted by Slarti


1. I'm going to be using this for Elite Dangerous for the foreseeable future and I thought a sliding throttle as opposed to a rotating throttle might be nice, similar to the TM VG TWCS Throttle Controller (2960754). There's a great youtube video where a guy takes this apart. Anyway, any ideas on how to take the existing TQS and setup some type of rail system for it to slide forward and backwards on?


TWCS "S.M.A.R.T." system is in reality a "dumb pig system" subject to 'stiction"... If want a "drawer throttle" do in right way, use linear bearings rails.

http://www.waikatobearings.co.nz/service/linear-bearings-rail-guides-shaft

Quote

2 Could I reuse a set of shift registers from a spare FLCS? What would be involved in that? I think that would allow me to add up to an addition 12 buttons since the FLCS has ( I think) 22.... i.e. I take the SR circuit out of the FLCS, rewire all buttons in the TQS to the SR (10 currently) and then have the ability to add 12 additional buttons (Maybe 2 4way hats and 4 other direct buttons)


Yes, you can "cannibalize" FLCS for Shift Register, since has 3x CD4021B theretically support 24 buttons - if have all pins needed placed.

Quote

... range and antenna on the TQS...I'm not sure what I could do with these in Elite (I'm open to any suggestions), so I'm thinking of maybe putting in 4 way hat switches...


If the placement result comfortable ergonomically, why not? ... "poor striped FLCS". smile
I see some 'mod' with buttons in this places.

Quote

4. Detent. I'd really like to setup the TQS to function as a forward backwards throttle. How would I go about trying to add a center detent?


Put a "ball plunger" in desired stop positions in your "drw...", erh, rail system smile

http://www.springandballplungers.com/

Quote
... x-fighter joystick was the good one (like you have) or the not so good one? Is it a difference in bases? I ask because I'm seeing some cheap on e-bay or Craig's list and I'd rather make sure I'm getting the one like you have (heavy base, stiff gimbal)


"Advantage" of X-Fighter base is be heavy - is all in pot metal, but gimbal pivots don't use bearing, neither bronze bushings, has a bit of play and heavy, uncomfortable to use springs.

Maybe better expend a bit more in a better gimbal:

Debolestis "UberNXT" clone "Mk.II" ("Mk.I" reveal a weak point in spring anchor point, improved in "Mk.II"):

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3100793&postcount=244

Or a modern gimbal, with CAM center system, bearings (like BRD, VKB, VPC, MFG, Slaw...):

3d Printer CAM gimbal





#4418279 - 04/29/18 04:19 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kbird]  
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Hi S.

It sounds like you want a CH Pro Throttle ,( Slider/Rails) at least for E.D. and keep the TQS for FlightSims perhaps, should be able to find one on Ebay or similar cheaply.

I am not sure how to Identify the particular X-Fighter I have , I think there was a X-Fighter Platinum too though , mine are not the Platinum edition , Mine both have Metal bases which adds a bit of weight , but I am not sure if that is a differentiation between models.

this one looks like both of mine , they both have the metal base and also a sticker beginning with 97xxxx like this one

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thrustmaster-X-Fighter-Flight-Joystick-Controller-Vintage-VTG-15-Pin/202004214167?hash=item2f0863b197:g:y-EAAOSwF3JZf1aj

I used the Original Cable for the TQS , and used the additional wires to add a Speaker and Mic Port to the back of the TQS too , works great smile

BTW My FLCS has a USB Port to power My Head Tracker also , just two wires for USB power are needed as the Head Tracker does not use USB Data at all.

The SR Boards are easy enough to make yourself from some Protoboard and a couple of 74HC165 Chips and Holders , ( each chip gives 8 additional inputs so I made 2 chip SR Boards) its what I did in my FLCS and TQS , but since I was ordering some more TLE5010 Boards I also Ordered the SR Boards from them this Time since there are smaller and cost less than me making them ,(not that cost is that high $8-10? ) the only down side is the Shipping time from China these Days, though I believe for the US it is not so bad due to the US having a special Mail Program with China.

I have not played E.D. so not sure about the Range and Ant Knobs , I would of thought Radar etc was still in E.D.

I have a white mark on my TQS at Center ( used a Welder's White Metal Marker ) , but I'm not sure how you would easily add a physical Detent at Center , the one at MIL Power never worked well for me actually.

KB


My FLCS+TQS Conversion here on SimHQ

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4324940/1
#4418309 - 04/29/18 02:23 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kbird]  
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Originally Posted by Kbird

I think there was a X-Fighter Platinum mine are not the Platinum edition , Mine both have Metal bases
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thrustmaster-X-Fighter-Flight-Joystick-Controller-Vintage-VTG-15-Pin/202004214167?hash=item2f0863b197:g:y-EAAOSwF3JZf1aj


Platinum name are used for "Top Gun Platinum" - a post FCS/X-Fighter version, an plastic base with throttle wheel, using X-Fighter grip (X-Fighter grip is ~20% bigger than FCS/Top Gun grip).

http://www.vikingweb.it/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/41SYM07KB2L._SX425_.jpg

#4418336 - 04/29/18 04:51 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Sokol1]  
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Originally Posted by Sokol1
Originally Posted by Kbird

I think there was a X-Fighter Platinum mine are not the Platinum edition , Mine both have Metal bases
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thrustmaster-X-Fighter-Flight-Joystick-Controller-Vintage-VTG-15-Pin/202004214167?hash=item2f0863b197:g:y-EAAOSwF3JZf1aj


Platinum name are used for "Top Gun Platinum" - a post FCS/X-Fighter version, an plastic base with throttle wheel, using X-Fighter grip (X-Fighter grip is ~20% bigger than FCS/Top Gun grip).

http://www.vikingweb.it/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/41SYM07KB2L._SX425_.jpg




Thanks for the clarification Sokol1 , I am not sure how to tell externally what model of X-Fighter is what then, as the two I have are both the same , with metal base and the White Gimbal mechanism and coil spring on the shaft. The Shaft was easily modified ( shortened slightly ) to accept the FLCS Handle which only needed a small notched filed into it to accept the X-Fighter Shaft "Key"

KB

EDIT*** these pics are the X-Fighter Gimbal and Spring , I opened my 2nd one and it is the same mechanism too.


Attached Files X-Fighter Gimbal Parts_ (7).jpgX-Fighter Gimbal Spring_ (1).jpgX-Fighter Gimbal Spring_ (3).jpg
Last edited by Kbird; 04/29/18 08:04 PM.

My FLCS+TQS Conversion here on SimHQ

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4324940/1
#4418349 - 04/29/18 06:56 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kbird]  
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Interesting, I suppose that X-fighter base - the same of F22PRO, use the same gimbal (pot metal).

Maybe this plastic - independent axes, allow install bearings.

#4418368 - 04/29/18 08:24 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Sokol1]  
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Originally Posted by Sokol1
Interesting, I suppose that X-fighter base - the same of F22PRO, use the same gimbal (pot metal).

Maybe this plastic - independent axes, allow install bearings.



The X-Fighter Gimbal and Spring is what is in the photos above , they are not Pot Metal , at least not in the two that I have , it's all Plastic (except the Spring).

Only the Flat Base Plate is Metal too , not the whole Base just to Clarify....


My FLCS+TQS Conversion here on SimHQ

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4324940/1
#4418389 - 04/30/18 12:42 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kbird]  
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Hi Guys,

So, a long thread, and I'm coming to the party late, but perhaps Kbird and Solkol and others can help get me pointed in the right direction?

I fly (flew) with an FLCS, WCS Mk II throttle, and classic CH pedals (the kind that pivot, not slide). I'm very attached to these types of controllers - I light the light springs on the FLCS and the button on the WCS Mk II and the gas/brake pedal feel of the CH Pedals - and don't feel like replacing it all with inferior feeling hardware. I fly WWII combat sims, so I don't need knobs. I was flying back in the XP days through gameports, but in today's world, know that hardware needs to be USB or nothing at all.

I have tons of spares of sticks and throttles, even some spare switches and pots, and I've taken the Thrustmaster hardware apart many times for servicing. I collect and maintain old arcade games and Apple IIs, so my soldering skills are pretty okay. I've rooted Android and know the ROM scene, so I'm pretty okay with software. It sounds like I probably have the skills to convert my beloved gear to Win10-compatible hardware, but I don't know where to get started.

I've read how its pretty straightforward to use a Arduino Leonardo to convert the FLCS - the 5 wires in the ribbon down from the handle can be connected to 5 pins on the Arduino, the pots to other pins, and it's good to go. At least, that's what I read from posts dated last year. I even have a set of Bob Church stickworks chips that I never got around to using, and could use if I read it was a good idea. Is there something more current I should be looking at?

And a basic question: I assume once converted I can use the pinkie switch as a "shift button" for all the other stick controls?

All the throttles I'm seeing converted art TQSs - any WCS Mk II posts in this thread I should know about? Otherwise, it's pretty straightforward: 1 pot, 6 buttons, and a 3-position rocker that looks like two more buttons to me. Is this conversion as straightforward as it seems? I assume if I can use the FLCS pinkie switch as a "shift button," it will only work on the stick itself, and can't "shift" the buttons on the WCS if the WCS gets its own Arduino?

The pedals - I guess I could give them their own Arduino and add a button, but is it better to slave them to the stick or throttle?

I guess I'd love someone to bounce questions off of and get tips for getting started, so I'll be eagerly looking for replies.

Cheers!
Llama


Last edited by Llama; 04/30/18 02:43 AM.
#4418406 - 04/30/18 03:33 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Llama]  
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Hey Llama,
Welcome to the party! This is a great thread and KBird, Sokol1 and Soldermonkey (among other) have really helped put together a great resource. Kbird drove this thread so I'll let him pipe in, but i'm a recent addition and have converted my FLCS, and am just finishing my TQS with Thrustmaster pedals soon to follow. I did the SolderMonkey quick conversion on the TQS (didn't add any buttons yet, so the stock 10 buttons on the TQS) so it was very simple. I'll be splicing the USB cordage in tomorrow.

KB and Sokol will have to confirm but the WCS should be easier than the TQS and I think you should be able to do a conversion similar to what I did with my TQS. As long as you don't go over 10 buttons you don't have to use the "Button Matrix" method. It's just a straight run for all the pins.

I used a RobotDyn Micro card which gave me a lot of extra pins to play with. Also, I'll tell you what KB told me, read the thread slowly. I skimmed and missed important things. If you want, I'll try and post up a shot of where I pinned everything out on my RobotDyn board.

Doing the FLCS first gave me the basics of how to do that conversion. The TQS took a little more thinking but with the help of two or three specfic docs in this thread I was able to get the TQS done. This post has the 3 docs that really helped me do the TQS TQS Post

Slarti.
'

Last edited by Slarti; 04/30/18 03:35 AM.
#4418408 - 04/30/18 03:37 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Slarti]  
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KB and Sokol,
It's late and I'm tired, but I have been reading your responses. I'll try and catch up tomorrow. Great help as always. Sokol, I definitely have questions for you regarding trying to setup some type of Rail system for the TQS as well as the plunger for the detent.

Talk to you all tomorrow.

#4418413 - 04/30/18 04:12 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Llama]  
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Originally Posted by Llama
Hi Guys,

So, a long thread, and I'm coming to the party late, but perhaps Kbird and Solkol and others can help get me pointed in the right direction?

I fly (flew) with an FLCS, WCS Mk II throttle, and classic CH pedals (the kind that pivot, not slide). I'm very attached to these types of controllers - I light the light springs on the FLCS and the button on the WCS Mk II and the gas/brake pedal feel of the CH Pedals - and don't feel like replacing it all with inferior feeling hardware. I fly WWII combat sims, so I don't need knobs. I was flying back in the XP days through gameports, but in today's world, know that hardware needs to be USB or nothing at all.

I have tons of spares of sticks and throttles, even some spare switches and pots, and I've taken the Thrustmaster hardware apart many times for servicing. I collect and maintain old arcade games and Apple IIs, so my soldering skills are pretty okay. I've rooted Android and know the ROM scene, so I'm pretty okay with software. It sounds like I probably have the skills to convert my beloved gear to Win10-compatible hardware, but I don't know where to get started.

I've read how its pretty straightforward to use a Arduino Leonardo to convert the FLCS - the 5 wires in the ribbon down from the handle can be connected to 5 pins on the Arduino, the pots to other pins, and it's good to go. At least, that's what I read from posts dated last year. I even have a set of Bob Church stickworks chips that I never got around to using, and could use if I read it was a good idea. Is there something more current I should be looking at?

And a basic question: I assume once converted I can use the pinkie switch as a "shift button" for all the other stick controls?

All the throttles I'm seeing converted art TQSs - any WCS Mk II posts in this thread I should know about? Otherwise, it's pretty straightforward: 1 pot, 6 buttons, and a 3-position rocker that looks like two more buttons to me. Is this conversion as straightforward as it seems? I assume if I can use the FLCS pinkie switch as a "shift button," it will only work on the stick itself, and can't "shift" the buttons on the WCS if the WCS gets its own Arduino?

The pedals - I guess I could give them their own Arduino and add a button, but is it better to slave them to the stick or throttle?

I guess I'd love someone to bounce questions off of and get tips for getting started, so I'll be eagerly looking for replies.

Cheers!
Llama




Just to say hi Llama and welcome to the thread it's late...... a Pro Micro or a Leonardo are the best way to go ...... I'd lean to the Pro Micro after doing my 1st set with the Leo, as they were a tight fit but doable.

The Stickworks Chips are of no use for this conversion as ALL the original PCB's are torn out.

The pinky shift button will no longer work like that , it becomes a single button as that was originally implemented in the Firmware in the Original TM PCB/Chip.

I connected my CH Pro Pedals to my TQS using the old gameport connectors wired to the Arduino but 2nd time around I think I will just use a 3rd Arduino instead .

Sokol1 has been doing these conversions for many years so I'd think he has seen a WCS or two done , but it doesn't sound any harder than the TQS.

If you want to eliminate the Pots, have a look at the last page or two for the posts on the TLE5010 boards , which is what I have in my FLCS now , if you want lots of extra button the Shift register boards will save alot of headaches trying to figureout Button Matrixes ( not my fortie smile ) , they also eliminate the need for Diodes in the matrix.

KB.


My FLCS+TQS Conversion here on SimHQ

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4324940/1
#4418414 - 04/30/18 04:14 AM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Slarti]  
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Originally Posted by Slarti
KB and Sokol,
It's late and I'm tired, but I have been reading your responses. I'll try and catch up tomorrow. Great help as always. Sokol, I definitely have questions for you regarding trying to setup some type of Rail system for the TQS as well as the plunger for the detent.

Talk to you all tomorrow.


No problem , might be cheaper to get a CH throttle though than adding a Slide/Rail to a TQS.

KB.


My FLCS+TQS Conversion here on SimHQ

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4324940/1
#4418482 - 04/30/18 06:25 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Llama]  
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Sokol1 Offline
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Llama, sorry for length answer, I am trying get you a "whole picture" including mentioning non related joysticks smile

Originally Posted by Llama

I've read how its pretty straightforward to use a Arduino Leonardo to convert the FLCS - the 5 wires in the ribbon down from the handle can be connected to 5 pins on the Arduino, the pots to other pins, and it's good to go. At least, that's what I read from posts dated last year.


That's right, due use of Shift Register (for handle buttons/HAt's) inside FLCS grip became very simple convert this stick for USB using Arduino +MMJoy2 firmware or your own made code - with support for Shift Register.

Only need ad an wire in 3rd pin of each pontentiometer and connect these wires and the 5 coming from grip in Arduino.

Of course, can replace (in a second stage) the pot for contactless sensors, actually affordable and available.

Quote

I even have a set of Bob Church stickworks chips that I never got around to using, and could use if I read it was a good idea. Is there something more current I should be looking at?


I think that use chips will involve create a specific circuit for translate their output in language usable be an USB circuit, what seems a complicated thing...

Anyway this chips has value of "joystick, vintage hardware collectors" - they exist. smile

Quote
And a basic question: I assume once converted I can use the pinkie switch as a "shift button" for all the other stick controls?


Using MMjoy2 firmware you set an button to by "shift" for other buttons - or you have a "shift" by hardware, or can do this externally with Joystick Gremlin, a "shift" by software (what is Tm TARGET, CH Manager or Saitek soft do).

Quote

...any WCS Mk II posts in this thread I should know about? Otherwise, it's pretty straightforward: 1 pot, 6 buttons, and a 3-position rocker that looks like two more buttons to me. Is this conversion as straightforward as it seems?


I don't know how the original circuit of WCS work (probable keyboard emulation, due the limitation of gameport 2 axis, 4 buttons - already used in FCS stick).

I have one TWCS time ago, but just throw away their internal circuits and wires and just wire the remain buttons an axis in an BU0836, including adding more buttons and axes. Latter sell for an guy.

The basic you need understand is:

- Create a new USB joystick using the parts (gimbal*, plastic shell, buttons, HAT, pot) of old gameport era models is relative simple/easy, and can result in a better control than the original and even actual models of some brands (e.g. Logitech /Saitek).

* Can include 3D print a modern CAM gimbal.

https://github.com/o-devices/o-joystick-hdk

- Try adapt the circuits of this gameport era models to USB can be a nightmare due the mix of keyboard circuits used at time for overcome gameport limitations.

Exceptions are Tm FLCS/F22 PRO due the use of Shift Register and CH F-16 CombatStick, FigherStick due use of 5x4 diode matrix - scheme already decode by DIY community. Or, you just keep grips in original form and remove all circuits existing in the base, adding there the new USB circuit.

Suncom SFS throttle is too simple to convert due use of a diode matrix, just require add 3 wires, but Suncom F-15 grip is not due mix of gameport and keyboard emulation circuits - for this models is better remove all circuits, wires, shave PCB trails and start wire from 0.

- The unique design of Suncom F-15 joystick gimbal make virtually impossible re-use this gimbal with other sensor/pot that their original pot (discontinued model).

Quote
I assume if I can use the FLCS pinkie switch as a "shift button," it will only work on the stick itself, and can't "shift" the buttons on the WCS if the WCS gets its own Arduino?


Two approaches for this "shift" button:

1 - Install one Arduino in each, making then standalone devices. Simplify wires, connections. In this case the "shift" button by hardware work only for each unity. An "shift" button by software (e.g. joystick Gremlin) can work for both.

2 - Install one Arduino in one device base - ideally in joystick base too keep the wires for the most important axes (X,Y) more short possible, and connect the other in this base, making then only one device for Windows/games.

- Modern (flight) games like DCS World allow you set in their controls any joy button to be a modifier (shift) for other buttons.

This option add complication, is need cables in between both with lot of internal wires - can reuse the gameport cables. In a CombatStick + PRO throttle that I "USB'erize" in that way need use two cables between joy and throttle, because the used USB circuit (BU0836) require use Diode Matrix what demand several wires. See there:

http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2951319/1.html

Can reduce this number of wires installing Shift Register circuits in the throttle - require 5 wires for Shift Register, plus 1 wire for each axis and 1 +5V and 1 Gnd (shared for all axes), or a minimum of 8 wires if keep only 1 axis in throttle. But still that the long wires need for the axes in one of two devices act as "antenna" picking electric noise, that result in spike in this axes.

The "shift" button by hardware will work for both joy and throttle - since now they are one controller, as well the "Shift" through an external software (E.g. Joystick Gremlin).

Quote

The pedals - I guess I could give them their own Arduino and add a button, but is it better to slave them to the stick or throttle?


Of course if want you can wire the pedal in the same Arduino used for Joy+Throttle option - as above a more complicated solution.

But the better to do is make the pedal a independent device. Arduinos are cheap (less than $10), no reason for complicate things saving some bucks.

BTW - Since this CH "car/plane" pedal use one pot' in each pedal, for rudder control this 2 pot' need be mixed in one axis.

The wiring for this specific pedal is explained there by MegaMOZG - MMjoy2 firmware author (use Google Translator):

https://sites.google.com/site/mmjoyproject/avto-pedali



Last edited by Sokol1; 04/30/18 06:27 PM.
#4419861 - 05/09/18 07:25 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Kbird]  
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Slarti Offline
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Slarti  Offline
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So I've been having a ton of fun using my now fully functional FLCS/TQS combo! Woo Hoo! Elite is much more enjoyable with a real throttle.

I now am seeing that I probably need to replace the mouse button with a hat, which means that I'm going to need to pillage a shift register from one of my FLCSs. The decision is do I get a mini Joystick or a 4way/8way /9way hat. I'm not sure what advantage a mini joystick would provide over the added buttons that the hat would provide.

Next, I started to work on my ThrustMaster RCS. My original goal was to do two things. First put in a RobotDyn Micro so it could be used by itself, and then add jumpers (via a second wire, would only need 3) so that I could plug the rudder into the TQS. This would only require that I have a socket in the TQS that could take the 3 wires to Ground/Pwr/Swiper. But when I went to see where the pot was, I found this....
(I'll upload pics later tonight)

wow...not really any room for an Arduino board....so I'm probably going to initially just do the plug into TQS option. I'm thinking if I can anchor a small build box that might work, but I don't want to kick the box off while I'm using it.

#4419869 - 05/09/18 08:05 PM Re: F16-FLCS + TQS (Original) USB Conversion [Re: Slarti]  
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Sokol1 Offline
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Originally Posted by Slarti
The decision is do I get a mini Joystick or a 4way/8way /9way hat. I'm not sure what advantage a mini joystick would provide over the added buttons that the hat would provide.


This depends on games you play.

In "jets' - e.g. DCS World, the mini-stick can be useful for control radar, target designator.

In "spaceship" - ex. E.Dangerous, thew mini-stick can be useful for control gimbaled weapons or "side strafe"in 6DOF.

MMjoy2 firmware allow you set an axis for press button, so for other games can use this mini-stick like a 4 way HAT.


Quote

RCS ...not really any room for an Arduino board....


In an RCS I fit a MJoy8 (grandpa of MMjy2) DIY PCB under the plastic cap that originally cover the potentiometer, an Arduino PRO micro is even more small.

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