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#4321286 - 12/19/16 02:10 PM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: 462cid]  
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Originally Posted By: 462cid
I can teach you in two hours
LOL Thanks but I live in Miami. I don't see the sense in driving a stick-shift in stop and go city traffic. It's unnecessary extra work. smile


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4321288 - 12/19/16 02:14 PM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: 462cid]  
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Originally Posted By: 462cid
So I had him come over to my place, to drive my '07 Solstice GXP. Should never have traded that car in. I think mine was the only one built correctly, no issues, and with the GM turbo upgrade it went from 260bhp and 260 ft/lb to 290 bhp, 340 ft/lbs. 145 bhp per liter, variable valve timing, direct injection, variable vane turbo, five speed, no turbo lag, 49/51 weight distribution, body roll of a brick set in concrete, torque just went up until you decided you were flogging the engine too much. Anyway.

That was a good looking car (love that stubby shifter), as was its' sister car, the Saturn Sky...












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Even though the day is done
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#4321290 - 12/19/16 02:27 PM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
I don't see the sense in driving a stick-shift in stop and go city traffic. It's unnecessary extra work. smile


That's the good point of an automatic clutch compare to a manual. Driving in a city, and something that can really be exhausting in a manual, driving in traffic jam.

#4321297 - 12/19/16 02:37 PM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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Still remember my old VW with a semi auto ,,Shift but no clutch,,best of of worlds


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#4321324 - 12/19/16 02:59 PM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: Roudou]  
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Originally Posted By: Roudou
Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
I don't see the sense in driving a stick-shift in stop and go city traffic. It's unnecessary extra work. smile


That's the good point of an automatic clutch compare to a manual. Driving in a city, and something that can really be exhausting in a manual, driving in traffic jam.
Especially those cars that have a heavy clutch, used to hate taking my MG into London, not that the clutch was that heavy but it did wear on you after an hour or three of stop start driving.

Even the auto boxes need to treated with a bit of care in heavy traffic and not sit there in gear with your foot on the brake for extended times, I had a temperature warning go off in my Range Rover Sport when queuing for the peage near Bordeaux, had to pull in and let the gearbox cool off for half an hour or so, and I had been flipping it back into neutral while in the queue, but with the temperature around 37~38c (100f) it was hot there.

MG ZT with supercharged Ford Mustang 4.6, the clutch is hydraulic rather than cable operated and is supposed to be a bit easier on the leg than the cable in the Mustang.


The Range Rover Sport, 6 speed auto. Can't remember exactly, but I think the latest version now has a 10 speed box for the sportier versions as well as different engine and suspension modes for fast road use, and the standard Range Rover Sport has an 8 speed.


I can get a different steering wheel from the 2010 model and that would give me flappy paddles but I'm fine with the leaver in forward to go up a gear and back to go down.


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#4321359 - 12/19/16 03:43 PM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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My first two cars were manual, and I hated them. Especially when it seemed like traffic always wanted to drive at that "sour spot" where it would race in 2nd gear but be sluggish if I had it in 3rd. frown

Also, the only car I've ever had the transmission fail on me was a stick--I pushed the clutch down one day and it went WHUMP to the floor. I could barely drive it to the garage after that, the slightest pressure on the clutch would disengage it, and even without touching the clutch it barely engaged.


I've only bought autos for 20 years now, and when I was a young tech driving from site to site, eating lunch in the car wasn't possible with a stick, you HAD to have an auto. Sticks suck in traffic, plain and simple. You spend all your time going up and down the scale. I suppose if I lived in an area that wasn't:
Flat, completely
With a perfect geometric grid of streets (all 90 degree corners, all the time)
Always with cars everywhere

Then maybe I might enjoy the sensation of driving. But I do not, because there is nowhere enjoyable to drive.




The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4321398 - 12/19/16 04:52 PM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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I've got an auto car and a manual car, and the manual is more fun, definitely. It's a Mustang, and I think manuals used to make more sense for performance cars, but these days, automatics are actually better. If I get a new sporty car, like a new Mustang, I may end up getting an automatic.

There's a 10-speed auto that Ford and GM developed together that's supposed to be great for both gas mileage and performance. It's in the new Camaro ZL1 and is rumored to be in the Mustang in 2018. If I break down and get a 2018 Mustang, I might just get that transmission.


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#4321402 - 12/19/16 04:56 PM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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#4321425 - 12/19/16 05:28 PM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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#4321572 - 12/19/16 11:13 PM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: Roudou]  
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Originally Posted By: Roudou
Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
I don't see the sense in driving a stick-shift in stop and go city traffic. It's unnecessary extra work. smile


That's the good point of an automatic clutch compare to a manual. Driving in a city, and something that can really be exhausting in a manual, driving in traffic jam.


I have had so many people ask me- "Doesn't your left leg get tired in traffic?". Well, no. Neither does my right leg, hitting that brake and pushing the gas pedal and holding it and letting off. When you drive a manual in traffic you don't creep up inch by inch by inch like in an automatic.


What kind of car is that? What does it matter? When I drive it, I'm Steve McQueen
#4321610 - 12/20/16 01:16 AM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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The old mechanical clutches were fatiguing in heavy stop and go traffic.

You could tell people who drove those vehicles as they were Bf109 pilots with one fat leg and one skinny leg.


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#4321611 - 12/20/16 01:33 AM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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Quote:
You could tell people who drove those vehicles as they were Bf109 pilots with one fat leg and one skinny leg.


Or, you could be the guy with busted knuckles because your X thought the clutch was how you kept the Fiero stationary when the light on the hill was red. :P 3 clutches in 70K miles. Finally put in a S10 pressure plate and got a D.


TPA who TWI
#4321692 - 12/20/16 12:50 PM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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Immermann Offline
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I drive manual.
I remember seeing, MTV Cribs I think, some rapper or whatever had a Mercedes SLR (or similar) that his friends had to drive him around in cause he couldn't drive manual himself.
How very gangsta... nope


"When I saw The Matrix at a local theatre in Slovenia, I had the unique opportunity of sitting close to the ideal spectator of the film - namely, to an idiot." - Slavoj Zizek
#4321695 - 12/20/16 12:58 PM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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PanzerMeyer Offline
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I hope you were like a teenager when you watched MTV Cribs....lol

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 12/20/16 12:58 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4321704 - 12/20/16 01:49 PM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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462cid Offline
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Originally Posted By: KraziKanuK
The old mechanical clutches were fatiguing in heavy stop and go traffic.

You could tell people who drove those vehicles as they were Bf109 pilots with one fat leg and one skinny leg.


Oldest manual I've driven is a '37 Chevy. Fairly light clutch actually. RE: rudder input on a 109 or P-40, etc, that's a touch different. Planes don't usually sit in stop and go traffic for an hour or two during their flight, creeping along for five feet at 2 mph and then sitting for ten minutes wink And in any case, in heavy traffic, my foot isn't depressing the clutch. I'm in neutral with my right foot on the brake, left foot on the deadpedal.

But you have to bear in mind, if you drive a manual daily- I don't know if you do or don't, I do though- people usually don't have your experiences. Mechanical or hydraulic means nothing to them in general. In fact they don't know what that even means in my experience. I know many 50+ year olds, not just folks in their 40s 30s or 20s, that cannot drive a manual and they attribute a strange sense of magical accomplishment to the task, as if it is demanding (You drive that to work? Isn't your leg tired??). Since they don't know what it entails and never did they just assume you're pumping that clutch a lot, especially if you mention it's a six speed. Must mean you're constantly shifting shifting shifting! Heavy or light clutch, they have no idea. They aren't drawing on their experience with Hays 10" street/strip clutches or even stock Z-bar clutch set-ups that bind under WOT from the '60s- they never drove one at all.

Even more bizarre is their look of disbelief when I tell them I drive my rear wheel drive car in the snow. They treat me as they might a magician- they know its a trick and its not true, but they can't tell how I made them think it was possible. And when they learn the manual trans car is the same RWD car I drive in the snow....I'm just waiting for one of them to call me a liar. According to them RWD means instant crash in the snow. And they usually ask how much horsepower the car has, as if max rated hp spells the difference between life and death- or traction. But they just don't know.

I guess the bottom line is that in my experience, when most innocent bystanders comment to you or I about manuals, they are going off hearsay and 'my uncle's cousin's friend once had a manual' type legends, not their extensive experience with the heavy mechanical clutches of yesteryear.


What kind of car is that? What does it matter? When I drive it, I'm Steve McQueen
#4321708 - 12/20/16 02:06 PM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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Over cruise speed, the 109 pilot has to push on the rudder pedal to keep flying straight.

I have driven a manual for most of my 50+ years of driving and my current vehicle is manual.


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#4321710 - 12/20/16 02:15 PM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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Roudou Offline
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If the traffic jam is a 15 feet gain and then stop for ten minutes, it is not exhausting for the left leg. Just imagine a traffic jam where you have a 15 to 100 feet gain, and then stop for 30 seconds, 15 to 100 feet gain and then stop for 30 seconds. Doing this during some hours sometimes. That's the kind of traffic jam here.

I only use the clutch in this kind of traffic, generally, the car in front of me has made another gain before i must stop. Not good for the car, but good for my leg.

Last edited by Roudou; 12/20/16 02:17 PM.
#4321713 - 12/20/16 02:27 PM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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PanzerMeyer Offline
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At this point in my life the only way I'll end up driving a manual transmission car is if I end up living in some remote area like Montana and I have a Camaro or a Mustang. smile


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4321715 - 12/20/16 02:29 PM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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Graduation present in HS was an '86 Ranger pickup with a stick. I never looked back, for the longest time, it's all I'd drive. For the last four years, I've had automatics after my Isuzu Rodeo came down with the magic disappearing oil illness. So in October, when I had to buy a new commuter car, I told my wife, "I'm buying a manual." She told me to get what I wanted because she drove a '96 Escort 2-door hatchback with a stick for six years.

I am now the proud owner of a 2014 Mazda3 hatchback with an absolutely glorious six-speed.


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#4321723 - 12/20/16 02:55 PM Re: Manual transmissions [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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I currently drive a manual. It's pretty much all I've driven my whole life. I owned one automatic, a Chevy Sprint, and besides being a big POS, it was the first automatic that I owned after owning 2 manual cars and it was prety painful to switch.

My first manual car was a 1984 Plymouth Colt (I think someone here mentioned they had one too). In 1990 we had a huge blizzard on Valentine's Day and I was coming home from college on the Dan Ryan in it when I started to slide out of control. I threw my car into neutral and instantly all that excess torque was gone giving me more control of the car to be able to coast it down to something more manual, then I went back into gear and I was fine. If I didn't do that I would have wiped out and hit something. I was convinced for sure ever since.

I do have a different technique that I picked up I think from my dad. I don't engine brake or downshift to slow down or stop. I just throw her into neutral and use the brake to stop or slow down. I think I'd rather wear my brakes than wear my clutch/trans. It costs less to fix brakes than it does a trans after all. The last 3 cars I've owned lasted more than 200,000 miles over 8 years each and the only trans problem I had was the 1996 which one had the clutch wear out on me at 245,000 miles so I must be OK.

After the 1984 Colt and the POS Sprint, I went back into stick shifts with a 1990 Hyundai Excel, then a 1996 Honda Civic EX coupe, then a 2004 Honda Civic EX Coupe, and now a 2012 Honda Civic EX Coupe. I love sticks, and all this talk about it being a distraction and what not--I don't experience that. It's all so second nature to me. I can just feel what gear I should be in or go to. I can eat while driving a stick, it's not a problem to me. I drive in in stop and go Chicago traffic pretty much everyday since 1990, in rain, snow, all weather. My leg doesn't get tired, nor do I lose concentration. I like having all the control over the transmission rather than an auto transmission deciding for me.

Some other perks about owning a stick. I think the chances of my car getting stolen or me getting carjacked are low. They will probably hop in and see a stick and can't drive off, then shoot me out of frustration haha. Also, one time my battery went dead and there was no one around to get a jumpstart from. So, I pushstarted my car, and drove it to where I can buy a new battery. That was great. When I go to Europe or Mexico, it's no problem renting a car. They usually only have manual transmissions, so it's no problem to me. The gas mileage is lower than an automatic too, but these days I think that automatic cars are so well engineered that they are either on par with stick shifts or are better in gas mileage, but it was a perk after all.

The popularity of automatic transmissions are way outweighing that of stick these days. It used to be you can get a manual transmission right off the lot. This time, even though the option was available, I had to special order the car and wait for delivery, which took about a month because they had to build it (and also because the paint and some of the trans parts' delivery was affected by the earthquake and tsunami in Japan). My wife just bought a 2017 Honda Civic (automatic even though she's European) and looking through their current catalog you are hard pressed to find a stick shift in there anymore. Her car does have remote start as standard though, which I don't think you can do in a stick shift,so I guess that's something I miss out on.

But anyway, yeah...it bugs me that they have paddle shifters in automatics. What's the point? To me it's like a car for wannabe stick shifters. I also don't see why you need a tachometer in an automatic. Also I will point out that each one of my stick shift Hondas from 1996 until now had cruise control, so I don't know why some people said stick shifts don't.

Did I wear leather gloves while driving when I was younger? Yeah here and there but now I usually (not always) wear flight gloves. You know, the fighter pilot style...fire resistant nomex and calfskin leather. They're comfy, and in the summer they breathe and in the winter they are fairly warm. Why would I wear them? To be honest, the steering wheel is way cold in the winter (right now as I speak the wind chill is -25 F), and way hot in the summer. But they are comfy to drive with overall though I don't do it all the time. I fly with them more than I drive with them. But I digress...

My record for teaching someone stick shift is 15 minutes. I agree that the only thing you really need to know is how to get into first gear. It's really hard to stall out in any other gear. I train people in a pretty unique way I think. Sure there is the parking lot to give them the basics, but the REAL test comes when I put them on an uphill slope and have them start the car and go. Everytime they stall out start "yelling" at them to get the car started, we're rolling backwards, the "car" behind us is gonna get hit, cross traffic is gonna hit us, you better move, etc--anything to put stress on them so that under stress they can perform well enough to restart the car and get it moving in the minimum of time and effort. I know it's mean, but it's effective. I actually got the idea from the movie "Glory" when the one black private who is really good with a rifle on the range is subjected to Matthew Broderick's yelling at him to shoot and and shooting his revolver to simulate the stress of the real thing. It works well, I've taught 2 people in 15 minutes this way. Plus since I had them on a hill, where it's a harrowing feeling to roll backwards in a stall and try to stop yourself and get started again---when they pass that test, they can do anything.

I can drive an automatic pretty much at will. There are a few times when I had a mind fart and stomped on a clutch that wasn't there and got the brake instead...but it's pretty rare. One time a friend was visiting from France and he had to rent a car and it was so ironic that I had to teach him how to drive an automatic. It was weird. I just told him to move his leg to the far left and LEAVE IT THERE! Haha.

One time I joked with a friend that if Jason from Friday the 13th was chasing you with a chainsaw and the one way you had to get away was to drive off in this stick shift car with the keys in it, you better know how or you're dead!

So anyway, yes, I love sticks, and my main worry is that I won't be able to get one in the future...I've been wanting a Civic Si for years and now it seems like the only way I can ever get a stick shift Civic is to get an Si, haha, so maybe it's not too bad.

v6,
boNes


"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot
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