That's ok, Coot. I'll tell you my embarrassing story (from memory, as accurately as possible).

In 1985, I bought a really beat up 1978 4-banger Mustang II (really a Pinto) 4-speed stick from my neighbor for $800.00. It sat in the yard for awhile as I saved for minimal insurance (grocery store cashier job). Wife (girlfriend then) drove a 70-something Malibu Classic (their family car) until her Dodge Omni, so at least we had a car for dating.

Anyway, my mom had to drive me out to a secluded area to teach me to drive my car. She's always loved manuals ('87 Escort GT, '91 Accord LX, '00 Accord EX), all bought new to put into a time frame. I sucked bad at it, I ran a stop sign my first attempt (and that's ok where we were at the time). But it took me awhile to get it, and even longer to become good at it. My '87 Dodge Colt (Mitsubishi) was soooo much smoother, making me look good driving it.

Which leads me to this...

Just a personal opinion, but after driving my wife's brother's '81 Celica GT 5-speed (compared to say, my brother's new '84(?) base-model Escort), Japanese cars just made manuals easier to drive than domestics. Even my parent's '87 Escort GT (the sporty model) didn't have very smooth sifting action (felt rubbery). The Japanese had super-slick stick shifting down to an art, night and day difference IMO, while their automatics usually sucked.

So Coot, you can probably blame it on the car.

But isn't it kind of a moot point today?

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Very cool pic, Linebacker!

I had a 1981 Toyota Celica GT 5 speed. My good friend had a 1984 Mustang manual. The difference in the clutch "pressure" was significant. Mine was way easier to operate.

Curious, LB4LB. Was your Celica a tan fastback?

I know car styling preferences can be as varied as women body preferences, but I thought that car was a real looker (also the previous similar one with round double headlights vs. rectangular). One before that even better, looking like a smaller vintage Mustang. But then the Celica got really ugly to me, 45d angled headlights and then just weird rounded shapes. It came back strong though, the last one with angular body was my favorite.

But then I thought the first gen. Integra looked great, the second gen. almost as good looking, the third gen. (with the beady little headlights) just butt ugly. But that one was the most popular and to most the best looking. No accounting for tastes, I guess.

My first one was a 1977 Celica GT. It was a tan fast back. It did remind me of Mustang pony car. My 1981 was a silver fast back. That car actually had a graphic equalizer on the stereo. I had a 1985 Celica coup, after that I did not like the look of the car. Always wanted the Supra model, but couldn't afford one. That 22R engine was probably one of the best mass produced car engines of all time.

Ah, looking online, the '85 hid the headlights (vs. '83), that looks good. Yeah, the same era Supra looked fantastic!

Sorry for the OT: Speaking of equalizers, I knew the first time I walked my girlfriend to her car in our HS parking lot, saw a Tancredi power booster/equalizer and Audiovox Hi-Comp 6x9s (yes, Audiovox actually made a decent 6x9 with their hi-end), I had me a keeper! Little did I know her brother had added that sound when he had the car (passed down when he bought his Celica), but it turned out she was into music anyway so it all worked out.

His Celica had only a dinky AM/FM radio until I added sound for him. The digital clock was pretty cool though.

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Now that I think about it, my brother's '88 Camaro RS had a decent 5-speed clutch/shifter. Maybe Fords weren't so smooth at the time.

Coot, anyone can learn it manual in 3 sessions. There's only one difficulty: getting into 1st. When I started I kept stalling out because I got nervous and was scared to give it gas (which increases the chance of stalling out, so vicious circle). Once I learned to ease in the clutch+giving gas it was easy. Nobody's judging

I learned to drive manual transmission when I was about 11 because I drove a tractor once and used to mow all the lawns on a John Deere manual transmission small tractor. Also learned to drive a car on that farm too by driving up and down our very long lane way one day.

But we left that farm when I was 12 so as an adult I have only driven a TR-7 and an MG Midget that were manual transmission and both belonged to girlfriends so only drive both briefly.

If I had to drive manual I could easily re-learn but I choose not to because I have bad feet and ankles due to valve failure and they get sore if I have to use them too much. I have driven across Canada a few times and without cruise control I could not do it due to my bad feet.

Yea, that limits me to certain cars because the cars I really want are high performance like the Subaru WRX STI but those types of cars only come in manual transmission. Which i think is a mistake because with today's computer technology an automatic transmission is more efficient than manual and there is no real good reason to limit them to manual only, apart from making men feel like they are real men because they drive a manual. Even F1 cars use semi-auto now and have for years.

So, ideally I want a Subaru WRX STI or Mitsubishi Evo with auto transmission and not because I can't drive a manual but because of my bad feet and because I know a computer controlled auto is more efficient. I once read that people that drive manual drive for performance but if you want fuel efficient shifting then get an auto.

p.s. one thing I didn't like about driving the TR-7 manual was that we were stuck in traffic on a very steep hill and if you didn't coordinate the gas and brake correctly the car would roll back, which could be a dangerous situation. Another thing, they say to keep two hands on the wheel all the time, well, you can't do that with a manual unless you have paddle shifters. Manual is a distraction factor so makes them less safe than an auto.

In conclusion; all you people that think manual is better are just plain wrong, IMO. At one time it was true but not anymore.

I would freaking LOVE a modern (and dependable) version of the TR7!

A friend of mine just picked up a nice Vette, manual 6 speed trans.
He immediately drove it up to my place to show off....a bit of snow and all, it's nice.
Got it in the 'baggie' for the winter right after he got home, this was in late November.
Fastest vehicle I've ever driven. Anniversary edition Grand Sport.
Has all the bells and whistles too, wish I could afford one;

Me and my dream;



Yeah, it's fast...well over 400HP, almost lost it in 3rd gear, slide sideways for a second.
Didn't tell the wives....lol.
Doubt I'll get another chance to drive it....can't help my heavy foot.



Side view;

I owned only manual, it so natural to me to change gearbox speed. When i drove a friend's automatic car, i was constantly searching the clutch pedal with my left foot, kind of disturbing and loosing concentration. Adaptation took 15 to 20 minutes. When you know to drive with manual (like nearly all european drivers), a speed change take less than 1 second, you don't look the stick and keep watching the road. And when you are cruising you don't change gearbox speed, so you can keep your two hands on the steering wheel.

A manual is more dangerous at sportive speeds, when adrenaline can lead you to make mistakes, changing speed so hardly and quickly than you turn the steering wheel in the same time is a perfect exemple of rookies mistake. But in normal conditions of drive, and if it is a habit to drive manual, i don't think it's more dangerous.

IMHO your not 'really' driving the car, if it's not a manual transmission.
I guess it's mental, and taxes your abilities more.
I love it.

Took me a while to get the feel of that much HP, and six speeds was a first for me.
But once I drove it, it didn't take long to find the limits.

Wasn't the TR6 rated better? I liked the MG Midget better until she put in a roll bar which shortened the leg room and I am 6'3" so it was too cramped for me, she herself was 6' tall. Had a GF with a FIAT Spyder back then too, this being around 1979/80 and for looks I liked that better than TR7 and MG Midget but I never did drive the Fiat.

If you want a car like that now then get the Mazda Miata but I sat in one and again it is way too small for me.

I would say the car I want the most now is the Nissan GTR but way too expensive for me. I do drive that mostly in Assetto Corsa though.

That Corvette is gorgeous, Murphy. Good on him for getting a stick. Best that I never experience such a thrill (wish I could undo recent virtual reality). I can't imagine what just tire replacement costs!

Geez, that's pretty tall! I'm 5'9", wife 5'4.5", so the Miata feels nice and cozy.

The reason the TR7 has always appealed to me is mostly looks, it's wedgy and reminds me of Giorgetto Giugiaro's styling of the original Lotus Esprit. 007 had such an impact on my impressionable young mind, even the way Moore winded out that little 4-banger!

This still does it for me...






And I always thought the plaid interior was kinda stylish back in the day...






The Miata is modern and the next best thing of course, just not as wedgy as I would like. My tastes are sometimes weird but very specific and don't normally change.

That's not a bad looking car. A little funkyish and I usually don't like orange but I think that vehicle could grown on me. I like wedge-like design too.

I would have loved the TR8 or the TR7 with the Rover V8 in it, I've always wondered why they never put the Dolomite Sprint engine in the TR7.

Many years ago my brother worked for a garage in Wick, he was sent down to Inverness to pick up a special TR7 that was going out on loan to Princess Anne when she was up staying in the Castle of Mey, the thing never ran well and the garage sent my brother back to go pick up a Range Rover instead, now that was one very tasty motor

My father had an Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire 346, it had a pre-select gearbox, you chose your next gear and then dipped the clutch when you wanted it to change gear, one party piece in it was putting it in reverse at 50mph and the car would slow down, stop and then go backwards without having to touch the brakes, played havoc with the drive belts tho!

Manual all the way. The two cars I've owned so far in my short life have both been manuals, and I don't foresee myself getting an automatic anytime soon. The only problem is that they are getting harder and harder to find on the lots here in the US. I got lucky finding a manual last year when I bought my current car, a Honda Accord coupe. Fun car to drive. Love it.

I taught a family member to drive a manual in two hours. He had previously been "taught", poorly, by the car dealership that sold him a car with a six-speed. They couldn't train him well enough to get the car out of the dealership lot. He wanted that manual trans car, life is short, so he simply did it, and he'd worry about details later. Guy's got some balls.

So I had him come over to my place, to drive my '07 Solstice GXP. Should never have traded that car in. I think mine was the only one built correctly, no issues, and with the GM turbo upgrade it went from 260bhp and 260 ft/lb to 290 bhp, 340 ft/lbs. 145 bhp per liter, variable valve timing, direct injection, variable vane turbo, five speed, no turbo lag, 49/51 weight distribution, body roll of a brick set in concrete, torque just went up until you decided you were flogging the engine too much. Anyway.

Here's how I feel you can train people on manuals quickly- Make them stall it on purpose a few times. Just stay off the gas completely, and ease up on the clutch a few times until they recognize that 'tickle' the engine, chassis, and pedal will make. Learn what it feels like just before the stall. Heck, they ARE going to stall it out anyway, stop being afraid!

Four times in, he knew exactly what a stall felt like, had no fear of it, and he rolled on some gas and off we went. Two hours later he was doing it naturally even on hills.

Two days later we went to the dealership to pick up his 400+ bhp/ 400+ lb/ft, six speed car. And he hopped in, then motored away nice as you please. He wasn't afraid of stalling because he knew what it was like and he could correct it right away.

I have always said that a few guys at that dealership lost money on the side-bets that day! I hope they lost big.

I'll be honest and upfront about this so I'll just say it: I never learned how to drive a manual transmission car. Where do I turn in my man card?


My driver's ed class in high school only had automatics and I didn't even own a car until after I graduated from college.

I can teach you in two hours