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#4321220 - 12/19/16 10:16 AM Why is everyone so negative in here?  
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bkthunder Offline
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Ask yourself the following question:
Does ED need another place where positivity and sunshine is spread around on a hourly basis?

Here comes the big revelation:

If someone wants to praise DCS, there's no need to come here to do so, since praising is so very welcome at the publisher's forum.

However, if forum members want to criticise or have an open discussion, then they have to come here (or elsewhere, but this seems to be THE place right now).
Hence why most posts here contain criticism. Aha!

ED wants to control 100% of the opinions on their forum. Thanks to their pioneering PR strategies, it turns out they now control 100% of the positive opinions, and 0% of the negative ones.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4321221 - 12/19/16 10:22 AM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: bkthunder]  
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tagTaken2 Offline
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I thought this might be a post criticising the endless DCS whining, but it looks like another whining thread.

Well, have at it - don't forget to start another account to agree with yourself, victims.

#4321224 - 12/19/16 10:42 AM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: bkthunder]  
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eonel Offline
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OP is not being negative - just had a slightly obscure introduction to his point.

DCS is my favourite simulation at the moment. Graphically & atmospherically beautiful. Perfect to drop-in to fly FC3 level aircraft and/or invest the time the learn the study-sim modules.

ED's moderation policy on its site does not bother me. I read & post here, not there.
No longer being able buy keys from 3rd party sites does not concern me directly. I have only ever bought from ED directly.
Modules spending many years in Alpha/Beta does not overly concern me. With few exceptions, aircraft have always been flyable, enjoyable and value for money at launch. ( don't mention the Hawk ! )
The recent trend towards launching campaigns is not negative. Mission content is just as important and aircraft content. Some of the NTTR campaigns have been excellent.
I hope & expect ED & 3rd parties will continue to improve the products, resolve bugs in modules & work towards 2.5. Ideally quicker than is currently happening, but I recognize the vast complexity of managing 2 core builds & numerous 3rd party modules.


Others will disagree, but me & all my alternate accounts agree with myself smile

Last edited by eonel; 12/19/16 10:45 AM.
#4321225 - 12/19/16 11:22 AM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: bkthunder]  
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zaelu Offline
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that 0% is brown

#4321229 - 12/19/16 11:40 AM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: tagTaken2]  
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bkthunder Offline
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Originally Posted By: tagTaken2

Well, have at it - don't forget to start another account to agree with yourself, victims.


Lol, here's another one who has received "the call" to defend ED against all evil...
Funny, the only one I've seen doing opening multiple accounts around here is an ED fanboi. Yes, to agree with himself wink

If you took your head out of the jar for a second and re-read the OP in a less ED-centric way, you might have realized it is simply aimed at explaining to some (you?) "how is it even remotely possible that a forum exists where people complain about DCS"

#4321231 - 12/19/16 11:53 AM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: bkthunder]  
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leaf_on_the_wind Offline
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@bkthunder, obscure title but good post

Don't bother trying to explain stuff to the fanatics, it is a wasted affort

They cannot seem to grasp that we LIKE playing DCS , but we think some of the decisions
made by ED border on retarded

Must be weird for those type, the world being completely black or white, no greys

You must either love ED with a passion , or you must hate them , no room for inbetween for these simple folks

Last edited by leaf_on_the_wind; 12/19/16 01:33 PM.


Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4321258 - 12/19/16 01:10 PM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: bkthunder]  
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FartHog Offline
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^^^ ...what he said.

#4321268 - 12/19/16 01:41 PM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: eonel]  
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- Ice Offline
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At first, I was "why is bkthunder asking that question??" then I realize it's not really for him but for the Pro-ED group that seems unable to grasp the concept he is trying to explain. Lol!!


Originally Posted By: tagTaken2
I thought this might be a post criticising the endless DCS whining, but it looks like another whining thread.

It's not whining, it's an explanation. One that we could just point towards everytime a Pro-ED poster asks this irrelevant question.


Originally Posted By: tagTaken2
Well, have at it - don't forget to start another account to agree with yourself, victims.

As been mentioned, the only instances of dual (or more!) accounts being made are from Pro-ED supporters. Also expected a better response from you, tagTaken2.


Originally Posted By: eonel
DCS is my favourite simulation at the moment. Graphically & atmospherically beautiful. Perfect to drop-in to fly FC3 level aircraft and/or invest the time the learn the study-sim modules.

Indeed, DCS is beautiful if you simply want to fly around, happy with FC3-level aircraft, or happy with scripted missions. The ability to do one mission over and over again, each time testing a different tactic or approaching the mission in a different way does wonders for training and testing.


Originally Posted By: eonel
ED's moderation policy on its site does not bother me. I read & post here, not there.
No longer being able buy keys from 3rd party sites does not concern me directly. I have only ever bought from ED directly.

True. But what they're doing is still wrong and that's what we're discussing. As for the new key policy, it's not the 3rd party sellers that bother me really, but rather taking away the ability of simmers to "sell on" their existing keys. Sure, they could've cracked down on 3rd-party sellers without compromising Simmer Joe who just wants to sell his MiG 15 module so he can buy a different module, but they didn't do that, did they?


Originally Posted By: eonel
Others will disagree, but me & all my alternate accounts agree with myself smile

Hehehe!! biggrin


- Ice
#4321606 - 12/20/16 12:49 AM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: bkthunder]  
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Frederf Offline
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If the people here didn't like DCS they wouldn't be complaining, they'd be entirely absent.

#4321607 - 12/20/16 12:54 AM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: Frederf]  
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cichlidfan Offline
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Originally Posted By: Frederf
If the people here didn't like DCS they wouldn't be complaining, they'd be entirely absent.


This is so damn true. Face it, ED has an awesome product. It is also plagued with many issues. However, if it was pure crap there would not even be a forum section for it.

Bottom line is that if we did not care, we would not complain.


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#4321624 - 12/20/16 02:52 AM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: Frederf]  
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Johnny_Redd Offline
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Originally Posted By: Frederf
If the people here didn't like DCS they wouldn't be complaining, they'd be entirely absent.

Absolutely. Myself, my complaining has tapered off because i fire up DCS at the weekends then I turn it off after a couple of minutes. It just feels like an empty promise. It's an empty experience. Yes certain aircraft are excellent but the "combat" part of Digital Combat Simulator is really missing. I have certain favorite aircraft, those are not available in DCS, they are however, available in P3D. I can do, in P3D, exactly what I can do in DCS with some tackpac tweaking with my favorite aircraft. I was looking forward to the spitfire but meh. I'm over the game, unfortunately I can't give my modules away now.


DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
#4321673 - 12/20/16 11:37 AM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: Johnny_Redd]  
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bkthunder Offline
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Originally Posted By: Johnny_Redd
[quote=Frederf]It's an empty experience. Yes certain aircraft are excellent but the "combat" part of Digital Combat Simulator is really missing. I have certain favorite aircraft, those are not available in DCS, they are however, available in P3D. I can do, in P3D, exactly what I can do in DCS with some tackpac tweaking with my favorite aircraft.


I share a lot of your feelings. Unfortunately even TacPack is a hassle, in the same way the mission editor in DCS is.
I find myself using DCS as a free-flight simulator a lot more than as a combat sim. I'd say 95% of my time in DCS is spent just flying and doing procedures. The remaining 5% on airquake servers. It's really a bit sad that we're stuck with a modded sim from 1998 for any serious combat flying...

#4321792 - 12/20/16 06:37 PM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: bkthunder]  
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Jedi Master Offline
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Naturally. When people dislike something, it's just a bunch of profanity and "total crap!", "massive turd!!!1111", etc that gets posted.

You don't see people giving specific examples of things they'd like fixed, areas of improvement, and lamentations on company progress and practices.

In other words, it's oft poorly-framed constructive criticism as opposed to simply bile and trolling. The issue is the inability of some to tell the difference.



The Jedi Master


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#4321858 - 12/20/16 08:43 PM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: bkthunder]  
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You cannot blame ED's Moderators for Member's behavior here, Sorry, the way they behave is the way they behave, regardless of Who Moderates a completely different site, That's like me logging into facebook and being a downright absolute bagger of the 1st order because twitter's moderation sucks.

The overly mouthy and no sense of respect towards anything users ended up here because they were banned from everywhere else.

The overly obsessive and otherwise reliably passionate complainer users ended up here because they feel safe here.


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#4321862 - 12/20/16 08:51 PM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted By: - Ice

Indeed, DCS is beautiful if you simply want to fly around, happy with FC3-level aircraft, or happy with scripted missions.


I've repeated this many times, but give me more of these. Modern fighters, FC3 level.

#4321877 - 12/20/16 09:33 PM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: SkateZilla]  
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- Ice Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Naturally. When people dislike something, it's just a bunch of profanity and "total crap!", "massive turd!!!1111", etc that gets posted.

You don't see people giving specific examples of things they'd like fixed, areas of improvement, and lamentations on company progress and practices.

In other words, it's oft poorly-framed constructive criticism as opposed to simply bile and trolling. The issue is the inability of some to tell the difference.

Indeed, if we were just here for trolling, the conversations would not be about the game or the bugs or the company but rather how things suxx and how the people who like the game are silly and don't know what they're talking about and why are they even posting here.... wait.... that sounds familiar.... biggrin


Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
You cannot blame ED's Moderators for Member's behavior here, Sorry, the way they behave is the way they behave, regardless of Who Moderates a completely different site, That's like me logging into facebook and being a downright absolute bagger of the 1st order because twitter's moderation sucks.

The overly mouthy and no sense of respect towards anything users ended up here because they were banned from everywhere else.

The overly obsessive and otherwise reliably passionate complainer users ended up here because they feel safe here.

Sure, 100% of the blame does not rest on ED mods. However, a good chunk of it is. If your discussion and posts were moderated on Twitter, you won't feel the need to let off steam about that issue in some other site? Airing out complaints and frustrations is a totally different thing from "being a downright absolute bagger" and I think we have a lot of the former and very little, if any, of the latter. Unfortunately, due to ED forums moderation/policy, the people who end up here are in a negative mood, and that really does not show them in the best light. Being in a negative mood and having to find another venue to vent legitimate concerns --- that blame is squarely on the ED mods' shoulders.

Overly mouthy and no sense of respect user has been banned here recently.... and he wasn't even the one "complaining about ED"!

Discussions and ideas are free to be expressed here whether they are positive or negative towards the product/company/developer/etc, and that's why people come here. The other site I frequent does not allow much discussion of ED in their forums so not much is going on there with regards to DCS.


- Ice
#4321882 - 12/20/16 09:51 PM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: SkateZilla]  
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FartHog Offline
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
You cannot blame ED's Moderators for Member's behavior here, Sorry, the way they behave is the way they behave, regardless of Who Moderates a completely different site, That's like me logging into facebook and being a downright absolute bagger of the 1st order because twitter's moderation sucks.

The overly mouthy and no sense of respect towards anything users ended up here because they were banned from everywhere else.

The overly obsessive and otherwise reliably passionate complainer users ended up here because they feel safe here.



You defend ED's draconian interpretation of moderation here ? I'd rather converse with someone free to express themselves honestly with the odd expletive than a bunch of blinkered fanatics second guessing everything they type in fear of gaining the attention of the minion mods.

Yours and ED's definition of "overly mouthy" and "overly obsessive" is subjective, the only difference is they have the power to bring down the ban hammer as and when to suit their agenda. They are just as offensive and abusive in the way they react.

The simple fact is they can't handle the truth.

You don't tell people what to say or how to say it, try it in real life sometime if your balls are big enough and tell me what happens.

#4321913 - 12/21/16 12:08 AM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Noodle Offline
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
You cannot blame ED's Moderators...


Can and do.

I seem to recall a recent political contest which had an unexpected outcome because certain people were incapable of hearing the frustration being expressed.

They scrambled to blame others deflect criticism much the way ED does. It doesn't even cross your mind that perhaps you could learn something from someone you deem to be "mouthy", "obsessive", or a "complainer". You're seemingly incapable of recognizing that some of those whom you so casually and flippantly label might actually have altruistic intentions.

For me, the worst part is that you and your moderator friends don't even matter. You're not ED employees; you have no stake in the design, development, marketing, or support of DCS, yet you insert yourselves into the process. Making decisions and taking actions which ultimately cause damage to ED's reputation and limit the potential of ED's products.

I continue to believe that ED's developers are both highly skilled and quite capable of accepting feedback, positive and negative. The breakdown lies in the dysfunctional layer between the community and the developers--the moderators and the producer to whom they answer.

You can try and paint us all as nasty human beings not worthy of your time and attention. You can claim that we have nothing useful to contribute, but the truth is that people like you created this situation with your heavy-handed tactics. Instead of engaging with the community and taking their feedback seriously, you isolate them, marginalize them, ban them, then follow them to another forum and hassle them there too. You're Don Quixote fighting windmills. We were never the enemy, but you treat us like we are.

That's why you have this festering mess you can't get rid of. You can fix it though; all is not lost. All you have to do is listen to your customers and include them in the process. All you have to do is start moderating more and censoring less. It's well within the realm of possibility to build a strong and unified community...but the change in culture required probably needs to start from the top. Personally, I doubt that kind of top-down revolution is possible given the incumbent. And so I look forward to the day when ED realizes that a personnel change is warranted.

#4321916 - 12/21/16 12:11 AM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: bkthunder]  
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Paradaz Offline
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Nail.on.head


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4321927 - 12/21/16 12:52 AM Re: Why is everyone so negative in here? [Re: bkthunder]  
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Jetronic Offline
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Noodle that's quite funny, just a shame that it's true. I always imagined the ED english langauge mods as having failed the mall cop selection test and they're just glad they've found a place where they can throw their weight around, even if it is for no pay.

My wife is a translator and it seems in the russian language section, criticism is actually understood and taken on board. I just think that ED, having no english speakers, don't know what bunch of knuckleheads they have running on the english side of things, shame really.

Last edited by Jetronic; 12/21/16 01:25 AM.
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