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#4306307 - 10/25/16 08:48 PM Search for a Sunderland  
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Ice Cold in Alex or Eating in ...
Back around 1990 myself and three friends went off into the hills looking for a WW2 aircraft that had crashed in Glen Loth that we had heard about.

Through a contact in the RAF I managed to get a map marked up with some rough co-ordinates of some aircraft that were lost in the far north of Scotland.

After doing a bit of research we found out that the aircraft was a Sunderland Flying Boat that had taken off from Evanton on the Cromarty Firth and was heading to Scapa Flow in Orkney.



Conditions were marginal on take off and the weather only got worse. They started climbing up through the low cloud base knowing there was high ground along their path, only to find they were flying up a gully on the hillside and it was rising as fast as the aircraft could climb, they had almost got to the top and looked like clearing the top of the hill but there was a rocky outcrop at the top and the aircraft hit that. There was one survivor that mangaged to get back down the hill and call on help but the rest of the crew and aircraft were lost.



When the aircraft hit the engines continued over the top of the outcrop and left four craters on the other side of the hill.



On searching the database I found out that there were three aricraft that had crashed in the area over the course of the war, so we marked up the map and plotted a route to visit all three. The Sunderland, a Wellington and a Fairey Barracuda.




I drove the four of us down to Glen Loth and parked up near the site of the Sunderland.



We climbed up the hill to where the aircraft should be and it was quite obvious even from a distance where the accident had happened




We looked around and found that the bare hillside was contaminated with small droplets of once molten aluminium there was also lots of expended .303 amunition in that it had been cooked off in the fire that had happened during the crash.

One of the craters from an engine:


After looking at the Sunderland we headed off to look for the Wellington next and off we set across the bare hillside




As we climbed the hill to where the Wellington was the clouds came down thicker and thicker until the visibility was down to about 30 meters

3 of the intrepid explorers in the mist:


The mist was so thick that we could not find the wreck of the Wellington and as the Fairey Baraccuda lay on even higher ground we decided to cut our losses and head back to the car before we ran out of daylight.


Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
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#4306312 - 10/25/16 09:26 PM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: Alicatt]  
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Fascinating stuff Alicatt,thanks for the post.

I was at Pembroke Docks earlier in the year where they have raised some of the remains of a Sunderland that sank at its moorings.They have the engines,well the parts that survived,all the aluminium cylinder heads etc have corroded away.They also have an elevator on display (loaned from another museum) and that in itself is massive. The whole aircraft must be very impressive in size.There is a small workshop in the museum where the guys are actively restoring parts and I had a very fascinating chat with one of them.

For anyone not familiar with the Barracuda,there are none currently on display,however there is a project ongoing that is trying to re-build one for display from several wrecks http://www.fleetairarm.com/barracuda-restoration-project.aspx

The Mighty Jingles,gamer and Youtuber,did a piece on the project to help raise funds.Skip to 8.15 for the relevant section.



*Hope it's not too much of a thread hijack*

Last edited by Chucky; 10/25/16 09:37 PM.

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#4306421 - 10/26/16 09:49 AM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: Alicatt]  
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For anyone who happens to be passing through Auckland I can recommend a visit to MOTAT where amongst other aircraft under restoration they had this Sunderland in 2003. Don't know unfortunately if it still there but they also had a Mossie and quite a few other interesting things and a fully restored Sandringham from TEAL airlines and Lancaster - amazing how comfortable the Sandringham looked for a passenger. I reckon if it was done again as an upmarket option it would probably sell quite well.





Last edited by Stonehouse; 10/26/16 09:50 AM.
#4306531 - 10/26/16 03:37 PM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: Alicatt]  
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thanks for the additional info and pictures guys.
We hope to be visiting NZ sometime soon to go visit my cousin that lives there, so I will add the museum to my list of places to visit smile

The Barracuda I never got back to see, but the lad in the middle planned an expedition with the local Air Training Corps from Wick to go visit it, he said it was largely intact and the fuselage was pretty whole and that you could actually sit in it.

There is also a Sunderland at RAF Cosford museum, it is quite a large aircraft, after seeing it made me realise how little survived up top on the hill, the ground there was still bare from the fire and subsequent aluminium getting into the soil.


Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
#4306720 - 10/27/16 08:10 AM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: Alicatt]  
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Cool story, thanks for sharing! I'm surprised that they left the parts there, just like that...

#4306727 - 10/27/16 09:12 AM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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Originally Posted By: RSColonel_131st
Cool story, thanks for sharing! I'm surprised that they left the parts there, just like that...

The terrain is really quite a challenge, even walking never mind trying to get a vehicle out and up there was tough.

Another aircraft that had crashed during WW2 in the Flow Country of Caithness was a Liberator, it made a controlled belly landing and was pretty much intact.

It stood out well against the peat hag and there were many reports of sightings of a crashed aircraft from pilots overflying the area and did not know in advance about the aircraft being there. It got a lot of reports and eventually the RAF came up and blew the aircraft up as it was totally impracticable to remove it, most of it was then buried, but a local farmer managed to salvage one of the engines and it is now in a museum as a sectioned exhibit to show the internal workings.

Myself and my friend Ian went out to look for the aircraft on our motorbikes, him on a XT250 and I on an IT465, we got about 4 miles out into the hill and then had to abandon the bikes as the going was getting too soft for the XT250 and we then walked another 3 miles and this is all we found of the aircraft, with Ian holding it to give some scale.




The terrain in Caithness/Sutherland is mainly deep peat bog once you get away from the cultivated farm land, some of these peatbogs are 30m deep and it is not unknown for low ground pressure vehicles sort of like Snowcats to sink and never be seen again.


Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
#4306747 - 10/27/16 11:27 AM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: Alicatt]  
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Must be a bit spooky...

#4306863 - 10/27/16 05:08 PM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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Originally Posted By: RSColonel_131st
Must be a bit spooky...


The farming program on BBC TV Country File was doing a documentary on peat extraction on the causwaymire near Thurso, they were interviewing the owner of the land where it was happening while in the background a tractor with balloon tyres was harvesting the peat.

A minute into the interview you could see the tractor sink lower and lower into the peat until only the roof of the cab was visible.

Then the TV program documented the rescue of the tractor, they had a bulldozer with about 2m wide tracks and it dug a ramp down to the tractor and with the aid of another bulldozer they hauled it out.


Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
#4308091 - 11/01/16 05:21 PM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: Alicatt]  
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Alicatt, very interesting stuff - thanks for sharing thumbsup

Your pictures remind me of the trip I made a few years ago to the crash site of the USAF RB-29 "Over Exposed" on Bleaklow Moor in the Peak District. I'll try to dig out the photos and post them.

#4308169 - 11/01/16 09:28 PM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: FlatEric]  
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A Sunderland doing a very low level pass.



My 'Waiting for Clod' thread: http://tinyurl.com/bqxc9ee

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#4308255 - 11/02/16 04:01 AM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: Alicatt]  
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Originally Posted By: Alicatt
Originally Posted By: RSColonel_131st
Must be a bit spooky...


The farming program on BBC TV Country File was doing a documentary on peat extraction on the causwaymire near Thurso, they were interviewing the owner of the land where it was happening while in the background a tractor with balloon tyres was harvesting the peat.

A minute into the interview you could see the tractor sink lower and lower into the peat until only the roof of the cab was visible.

Then the TV program documented the rescue of the tractor, they had a bulldozer with about 2m wide tracks and it dug a ramp down to the tractor and with the aid of another bulldozer they hauled it out.


Grew up in Coon Rapids, MN and near bye suburb of Blaine was Peat field they use to harvest to.
Plane crash of a one of the first Lear jets,all crew dead on impact. Only trouble was they were all
8ft down in the peat field. And it caused a peat fire that burned for 18 years. This was in 1974.

Tractors used to harvest the peat. they must


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#4308484 - 11/02/16 09:04 PM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: Alicatt]  
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Ice Cold in Alex or Eating in ...
Not too far from that peat farm but on the north side of the road, Fountain Forestry were doing a survey with a helicopter to check the land before sending in the tree planters and they found traces of metal near a small crater in the peat bog.

A friend of mine, Louis, got permission to go and take a look and after digging a hole down 21ft they found a Merlin engine from a Hurricane that had crashed after colliding with a Spitfire while doing dissimilar air combat training. The Spitfire managed to return to base but the Hurricane pilot had to hit the silk and watch his aircraft go bury it's self into the peat bog.

After Louis pulled the engine and a lot of other bits and pieces out of the peat he managed to trace the pilot who was Norwegian and he came over to see what had been found, it made the local papers back then.
Louis had managed to re-construct a lot of the cockpit and he had the Merlin sitting in his garage only thing was it was shaped like a banana now after hitting the bedrock under the peat, at first glance you would say it was ok but on a closer look you could see the slight bend in the engine block.


Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
#4510485 - 03/11/20 06:09 PM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: Alicatt]  
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Update to this thread:

August 15th 2019, on the anniversary of the crash on August 15 1944, a memorial was erected to the crew that lost their lives, the crew were from the Royal Canadian Airforce, Royal Australian Airforce and the RAF.

[Linked Image]


Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
#4512899 - 03/26/20 06:34 PM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: Alicatt]  
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I missed this thread four years ago, but the word Sunderland caught my eye in the 'Last Post' column on the main forums page. I've been playing German boats in SH4 the past week or two and Sunderlands have been chasing me around haha.

Thanks for sharing this story, nice work, and it's great to see the memorial for the brave men who lost their lives. Nicely done.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4512960 - 03/26/20 11:48 PM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: Alicatt]  
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Ice Cold in Alex or Eating in ...
Just taken up SH4 again too, there was a special offer on the set of 3,4 and 5 on Steam last week, and while I have SH4 collectors edition in the metal box the offer was too good to pass up.
After sinking a good few merchantmen got damaged by a divebombing Zero and am now limping back to Pearl on a lumpy diesel and electric power smile


Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
#4513756 - 03/31/20 05:13 PM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: Alicatt]  
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Anyone with an interest in Sunderlands or just needs reminding of times past and what people had to go through in WW2 might be interested in this video. Definitely read the notes that go along with it and try to imagine the cacophony of sound that is missing from the film.

https://youtu.be/0ZfVEoZmt-c

I was doing some googling after spending a few days walking in the area and came across the footage. Nearby Milford Haven is an important harbour and is surrounded by lots of old military installations in various stages of decay. You could spend a long time exploring.

Thanks to Alicatt for a great thread.

#4513856 - 04/01/20 08:51 AM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: Alicatt]  
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Plucky chaps.....seeing it all as 'a bit of a larf' sliding precariously down the wing, after what could of been a disastrous rescue mission.
Thanks for posting Vitesse.



#4513876 - 04/01/20 12:40 PM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: Alicatt]  
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No worries BD. When you think about what they had just done with that flight home and a forced landing waiting at the end - to slide and stroll down that wing with those big old fans spinning away and smile as though it was casual. Amazing!

They spent some time before landing circling the airfield and dumping stuff to prepare the aircraft so I reckon that let the cameraman get ready.


Last edited by Vitesse; 04/01/20 12:45 PM.
#4513877 - 04/01/20 12:59 PM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: Vitesse]  
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Ice Cold in Alex or Eating in ...
Originally Posted by Vitesse
Anyone with an interest in Sunderlands or just needs reminding of times past and what people had to go through in WW2 might be interested in this video. Definitely read the notes that go along with it and try to imagine the cacophony of sound that is missing from the film.

https://youtu.be/0ZfVEoZmt-c

I was doing some googling after spending a few days walking in the area and came across the footage. Nearby Milford Haven is an important harbour and is surrounded by lots of old military installations in various stages of decay. You could spend a long time exploring.

Thanks to Alicatt for a great thread.

I'll have a look at the video tonight when I will have a bit of peace to watch it.

A factory was set up behind Denny's shipyard in Dumbarton, it was the Blackburn Works and they were building Sunderlands during WW2.

My father at this time was working in Denny's as a pattern maker, later when there was not so much pressure for ships he joined the RAF and served at RAF Tangmere until just after the end of the war.

Some pics that I have found on the interwebs.

the Blackburn works with Denny's Ship Yard behind it (1950s)
[Linked Image]

Denny's Shipyard with the Blackburn works behind and a Sunderland taxiing out into the River Clyde
[Linked Image]

The launching of the first Sunderland Flying boat built at the Blackburn Works 17 Oct 1941
[Linked Image]

They also built aircraft carriers at Denny's
[Linked Image]

An exhibit from the Smithsonian Museum
[Linked Image]

Attached Files DennyfromSouth1950s.jpgDennyww2Blackburn.jpgFirstSunderlandBlackburn.jpgFittingoutdock.jpgSmithsonian.jpg

Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
#4513991 - 04/01/20 08:34 PM Re: Search for a Sunderland [Re: Alicatt]  
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Hey Alicat, that's a fantastic set of pics. I had a look at the area on Google earth and there's not much left. The roads are still there and the slipway the Sunderland is using still exists but it's all been pretty much redeveloped. Hard to believe what industry we had back then. Some great family history there.

The ex-RAF base I often dive from (Mountbatten Plymouth ) was a seaplane base but the only original features left are the WW1 hangars and slipway. They do have a heritage display with some Sunderland pictures though. Now it's used as a maritime sports centre which suits us divers nicely.

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