I have kept myself out of this never ending quagmire up until this point, but now feel compelled to enter the quicksand with the rest of you I keep hearing from the dissenters how bad of a product DCS aircraft and world are and how unfinished they are. Really, compared to what? I started out playing/flying flight sims with EAW. I've bought and played about every military helo and flight sim from that time until now. None, (and that's covering a lot of ground) even come close to the complexity or the fidelity of DCSW and it's aircraft. I love F4 in it's current state, but it was a very broken piece of software for a very long time. It is the only sim that's even worth mentioning in the same breath as DCS, and even after 18+ years of development it's still not even close to DCS IMO.

At this point, we all know that ED doesn't meet deadlines or commitments and it's a black mark on their brand without a doubt. Knowing this, it's really very easy not to be misled by them and suffer the sorrow of unfulfilled promises. DON'T BUY THEIR PRODUCTS!! Baam, no more disappointment, no more letdowns, problem solved. Sit back and watch the morons like me who continue to buy their broken software and laugh at our foolishness with glee. I however, won't notice your mirth at my expense because I'll be flying in the most advanced, highest fidelity sim aircraft ever made available to the public and smiling all the way waiting for the next awesome release.

Your mileage may vary, but I don't care cuz DCS is as close to real life flying as I'll ever get without buying a plane ticket and I'm happy to suffer through the delays.

Welcome!!



Er, broken is broken. Just because everything else is broken does not mean broken is now "okay." Just because other titles are delayed or have lots of bugs does not mean that it is now acceptable to be delayed and bug-ridden.



I'd be interested to know YOUR views and points why you say "it's not close to DCS."



True, but again, this thread isn't about whether a product should be purchased or not but rather ED's development time of DCS and why it chooses to entertain "distractions" considering the situation it is in.

A closer consideration to your point is the question: What about those that ALREADY brought their products on the promises made at the time of purchase? Hindsight is 20/20, unfortunately. So, what about those that have already purchased modules and are still stuck waiting?



Someone once said that DCS is an airframe simulator, and they are correct. Maybe like FSX, with better graphics and a small dash of combat, but with a much smaller map. I don't blame you though; I'll probably be in the same boat as you (literally!!) once the Tomcat is released, but again, just because the faults are covered up by a new module, does not mean they're not there. What happens when the "honeymoon phase" is over and the next-new-thing isn't around yet?



Up until when?

Well, I was going to reply to this point of yours but then I noticed that Jedi Master replied better than I probably would.




Really??
Does DCS even models the combat systems of an advanced multirole fighter aircraft like the F-16? NO
Does DCS even models the FM of a Fly-By-Wire aircraft like the F-16? NO
Can you play campaigns in Multiplayer in DCS? NO

And guess what? Falcon BMS models all the above with the best realism and fidelity available for PC!
So NO DCS doesn't exceed Falcon BMS and as such doesn't "exceed any other sim" like you say!

You may prefer DCS, that's fine. But saying that "DCS Still exceed any other sim" is with all due respect, FALSE!

Someone seems to be struggling with the concept that **gasp!!* they could be mistaken! Has your life really been one success after another that you cannot imagine how you could be missing the point on a few other things?

Also, seems like someone is posting with hurt feelings... can't have that!

Classy.

Says the guy that has over 250 posts here in the last couple months? If there is a site where you have posted and visited more...as in sharing screenshots, reporting AAR's, telling tall tales of missions you've flown, or just showing off how awesome DCS is please enlighten us.

The force is strong in this one


Well, joking aside, as I have said many times before, I do enjoy DCS. I enjoy BMS waaaay more.
DCS could be much better, but it won't.
I'm off to play

SOON (tm) (F-18C, F-15E)



1. YES (Mirage 2000C)
2. SOON (F-18C)
3. Who cares? FM and FBW are independent, and it already models some complex hydromechanical systems for F-15 and pitch-channel FBW for the flanker.



YES. But the have to made by humans



Actually no. It does pretty good, but best, not really.



Sure, but don't go implying that BMS exceeds any other sim either.

And that is where the problem is.... the potential is there. EVERYONE could see it. The focus and the drive to capitalize on it is massively lacking.



"Soon" doesn't count at all. Is it here yet? No? Then the answer to ricnune's question is still a "NO."



Which involves *A LOT* of effort and with very low (if any) replayability. Very small in scope as well.

Has anyone tried to make a fast-mission, take an F-15, and see how far you can go before you "leave" the theatre?



Again, DCS is an airframe simulator. DCS is better than BMS in terms of graphics (and VR) and in the sense that each aircraft is it's own aircraft (as opposed to a modded F-16), but that's about it. As a whole, if you are looking for a combat flight simulator, BMS does a lot of things better than DCS. If you are looking for FSX where you fly different aircraft and you can shoot missiles at different aircraft, then DCS has the airframe variety.

I don't think ricnunes was saying BMS exceeds any other sim, just that it exceeds DCS and therefore, DCS does not exceed other sims as Contempt was trying to point out.

Irrelevant. Almost all the necessary systems are there, they just don't happen to be built into the same airframe. Context.



Sure, no one's disputing that - but there are ways to gain some efficiency.



FSX doesn't have squat on DCS as far as combat goes. As for BMS doing things better - it does some things better, yes, and it has a following for a bunch of well known reasons.
I can turn this one on its head and say - here, watch this - 'BMS does well for lazy people who don't want to set up their own detailed scenarios - but that's about it'.



The implication was there. When is any of this not X vs Y?

There are strengths in both sims that likely won't be replicated by the other. There's also unfulfilled potential in both.

I am pretty sure the horse is long dead here. Most of this thread is various people repeating their point of view.

No offense to anyone, since all of you have, at some level, valid complaints/compliments.

DCS is, foremost, an aircraft simulator, not a combat simulator, which BMS does better (from an entertainment perspective). It can simulate combat, but only in some very restricted ways. Hopefully, once v2.5 is released, they will do more to expand the realism of the combat side.

BMS is definitely a better experience for many as DCS is for others. It depends on what the user is looking for.

It is what it is, and hopefully, both will be even better in the future.

I really have to agree with this in regards to co-op with squad/friends F4 is a better "OVERALL" sim to partake in co-op missions. DCS is much better for PvP events such as Operation Blue Flag, the 104th public server and others like it. DCS is also much better looking and doesn't have any flat, 2d terrain/buildings like F4 has. It also has a MUCH larger scope with way more aircraft, and as previously mentioned the potential to be something great.

With that being said, if I could find some people who flew F4 regularly I'd probably fly it but at the moment the guys I used to fly with aren't interested in flying it with any regularity. I may poke around for a casual squad as I always did enjoy the co-ops online in F4 with the DC.

"Being there" vs. end user actually ABLE to use the thing are two different.

A product that is 95% complete but is yet to be released to customers means the product is still **NOT** available to customers. Close, but still no cigar.



What exactly do you mean by "gain some efficiency"??



Oh God I would hope so!! Would be embarrasing if this were not the case. However, I was referring more to the fact that you have more airframe choices in DCS than in BMS, hence the "airframe variety."



Easy. BMS is for people who want to play an immersive combat flight simulator. If you want to spend hours crafting a mission that will be only played once or twice before it'll feel like cheating or spend a few minutes to fast-generate a mission but will be worried about flying "outside" the theatre, then DCS is for you.

Want to feel like a pilot involved in a war? BMS.
Want to be a mission creator and create detailed scenarios that you won't want to fly because you already "know the ending"? DCS.



Really? Where?



True. One works tirelessly to move the sim forward. The other one, well, I don't think the other one even knows what it's doing, really.

The fact that one of them is working with old code, reverse-engineering stuff, and still gets more things right than the other team makes it more embarrassing for the latter.

While I hold hope for both parties, I can imagine one group locking themselves behind solid doors and working feverishly on the code while another group just wanders about aimlessly.



Look up Battle for Sinai or Falcon Online and you'll see PvP. I seem to remember there were two other events as well, but can't remember the name for now. Loads of videos on YT of BfS.

Also, I don't know what you're looking for, but this doesn't look very flat to me:

linky


As for the buildings, not everythign is 2D, there are some 3D buildings but work seems to be done to get more. Much more:

linky


Like I said, if you want an immersive combat flight simulator, BMS is your ticket. It's not your only ticket, mind. I'm sure there are others out there as well.

If you want scripted missions or to create your own scenarios that will feel like cheating once you fly it for real, or take pretty screenshots, then DCS is your ticket.

I do as well, and I have no problem admitting that ED doesn't seem to be able to focus their resources, toward the entertainment side of the market.

First, and foremost, you have to disconnect anything that 3rd parties are doing, or not doing. ED's focus is, to some extent, going to be distracted by the needs of their collaborators. However, what I have read, over the past several years, leads me to believe that the 3rd parties don't get nearly the attention that some might feel ED is devoting to them, whether it be for a campaign or an aircraft module.

DCS to ambitious for future? dx11, edge, now decide to fix old map for edge, lots to fix and merge. Then back to fix atc, missiles, new clouds for new 2.5 all in one system. One day soon all together with f14 please.
Hard to be fast when a perfectionist? Bar so high things take too long always a better way? Very hard to balance and make everyone happy now it is set?

Set it is, but everyone happy is not!

Whether they get the attention they feel they need or not, they are still distracting ED from the core work it needs to do. One thing to consider as well, these 3rd party devs would be working on 3 versions of their product (or at least 2 versions), one for 1.xx, one for 2.xx and one for 2.5xx. That means having to "distract" ED three times instead of just once for one version.



Nothing wrong with being ambitious, but they've bitten off more than they can chew, and sometimes, it looks like they've forgotten how to chew properly.



One day, indeed. "Soon" is what I'm skeptical about.



Hard to be fast when there's no focus. If they were a perfectionist, which they are clearly NOT, some of the bugs would've been fixed LONG, LONG time ago.



They've set their own bar so they have nobody to blame for customer expectations other than themselves.

Yeah, I forgot you get confused very easily and you forgot you were talking to me and not ricnunes. You may be getting too stressed out reading these replies, might be time to take a break. Hopefully you'll get it right next time.



Obviously, comprehension is a challenge for you too. Remember to take breaks often!



Totally missed this one too, buddy. Try again.



Nope. I read what you write and that's it. If there's another side to the argument that you haven't considered when you made your statement, it's not my fault.

Talking to you about the issues being discussed in this thread and not whether DCS is enjoyable or great in VR, that's the exercise in futility.

Replying to your posts after you said numerous times that you're done, that you've wasted enough time, that's the exercise in futility. Maybe it's time to take some of your own medicine and take a break and stop wasting everyone's time.


Here's the

to take you home.

Not objectionable...try hypocritical.

SimHQ is a free service offered at no charge but there are some basic rules that should be followed. Including:

1. Don't personally attack other members
2. Don't use the free service offered to tell people not to come here

Number two is pretty much common sense and a no-brainer.

It should be even more obvious to someone that's been here for 17 years.