LOL Brun, poor Ice doesn't stand a chance . It 'm a glasses wearer too. I went with the VR-Lens Lab prescription lenses. So far I like them a lot (although they need to come up with a better way to install them into the Rift (I believe the Vive versions work better). Not a cheap solution, but it makes a world of difference not having to wear regular glasses inside the headset.

Ice, is there anyone within reasonable driving distance from you that has a VR setup that you could try? Going to a store demo is a good start but they won't be geared up for a simulation experience. If I still lived in the UK I would invite you over, but I'm guessing Texas might be a little too far.

Btw, if you are only interested in sims then the Rift is the way to go. You don't need room scale or motion controllers for that (you already have a HOTAS and Rudder Pedals). I'm not even sure I will be buying the Touch controllers for the Rift when they come out later this year as I really don't "need" them.

This would be my VR wet dream:


linky


I wear glasses too (contact lenses as needed) but I never thought the VR would be a problem.


I don't think so, no. Even when stretching "reasonable."
As for demos, I've tried the "smartphone" VR stuff, but I guess the Rift/Vive would be much better... never really liked any of the demos although they are good.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm getting the impression that while VR does great for immersion, even with the resolution specs, is it still "grainy"? Would reading the HUD on a monitor still be clearer/crisper than reading the HUD in VR?

I was referring specifically to the PC hardware. If a CV2 were available tomorrow with double the resolution I'm confident a GTX 1080 would render that with no problems *if* the relevant VR optimisations were implemented.

In some circumstances people are already running VR with 2x supersampling which is effectively the same as rendering at 4k. I've tried it in DCS but there's more of a framerate hit that I'm comfortable with. Might be possible to mitigate that with other graphics settings but I haven't had chance to investigate properly.

Believe what? My initial post on the matter was in response to this...



... and making the point that the hardware I have in my PC right now should be capable of rendering VR at 'CV2' resolutions but it requires software to be updated.

That's clearly not something that I or anyone else can demonstrate. I'd confidently wager that even if you had a GPU with double the performance of a Pascal Titan X you wouldn't see significant performance increases in VR.


To use an aircraft analogy, the current situation is you already have a powerful engine (GPU) available but the throttle cable (the software) is made of elastic. Max throttle only gives you 50% thrust. Sure, you could always get more thrust with a bigger engine but the obvious thing to do is fix the cable.

What is that supposed to mean? I was working on the assumption of 1920x1080 which I think is the baseline of what most people would have.


It's much more natural... simple. You look left, turn your head to the left and the natural thing is for your eyes to look left as well. TIR use needs training like "looking in the mirror," you turn your head left but keep your eyes forward.

More natural but often more difficult because the tracking is 1:1. With a typical profile checking your six with TIR is much easier in comparison.

With DCS, if there is a small gauge or label that you need to read, you can use the new VR Zoom feature. I have it mapped to a button on my throttle. It is only active while you have the button depressed. It works really well as a compromise. You can still use the mouse to manipulate switches etc while the view is zoomed in.

Ice, the HUD is really not a problem in the CV1. The weakness is small gauges, small cockpit labels and seeing small distant targets. The biggest compromise you would have to make would be to use labels as a SA aid.

I think a simple mod to the labels system for VR would be of great help. There is already a labels mod out there, so with some work they could be used to better (more realistic) effect for the current generation VR HMD's.

The other thing to mention with the Rift is that even with the headset on, it is still possible to look down over your nose and see your keyboard. The nose gap is not visible when you are looking straight ahead though. I don't know if that was an intentional design feature but it is very useful for sims.

So, a little bit of Googling later, it seems that you can edit various Label parameters within the labels config file to make things a little more realistic. For example, you can edit the colors used for Friendly and Enemy units as well as the makeup of the label itself.

So, we need to come up with some values that would make the use of labels in VR more acceptable to those who prefer to fly without them when flying on a HD monitor.

Because the label doesn't change with the target's aspect, we would have to settle with average figures for this, but I think it would be better than just using default labels. Label colors that are neutral would also be good. Air defense Gray or slightly darker maybe?

Yeah, um, I was working on the assumption that your default simmer who is considering a Vive/Rift would have AT LEAST a 24" 1920x1080 res monitor. I'm using a 27".... but I see your point regarding the 1:1 ratio. Even with my 3-screen setup, I don't think it's 1:1. That's why I fly with three screens --- for better "zoom" on the HUD and instruments but still get a big/bigger FoV.

I would ask you to do some tests for me but it's been ages since I've played DCS plus I'm more interested in how this works for BMS anyway, so it's moot to ask, I guess.



Really? Which gauges? So the HUD is clear-as-day?
Pity there's no way to be able to work with my touchscreens with the VR --- and no, if I'm spending £600, I don't want to have to do the nose-gap workaround.

Everything on the HUD is readable. No problem there.
Yep, your touch screens may not work out for you in VR. You have to ask yourself the question: "Am I going to deny myself everything VR brings to the table just because I have touch screens?" Only you can answer that question. Do you use the touch screens with BMS?

I just did some testing in the A10C. All gauges are readable. You will need to either use the VR Zoom funtion, or lean in a little to read the labels on many switches. Not a huge issue if you are familiar with the cockpit though.

I don't know how well this will work. I took the A10C up using my monitor (a 1080P LCD TV). I then took a couple of screen shots and cropped them. Then degraded the images by reducing the image size and then bumping it back to the original size. To my eye it roughly approximates the image quality I am getting in the Rift (I would be interested in other VR user's opinion on that...




Actually, jumping back in the Rift for a comparison, it is slightly better in the headset than these images (The TAD is noticeably easier to read in the headset than in the image I posted). What the images don't show is the so called screen door effect, but that is very easy to ignore unless you focus on seeing it.

A lot, unfortunately. Startup, cockpit work, fence in, ICP, countermeasures, etc. Basically, setting up the jet for flight, setting up the jet for ingress, setting up the jet for tanking, setting up the jet for "work," setting up the jet for egress, setting up the jet for landing, shutting down. Like if I'm set up for an A-G mission, I may need to drop everything if I'm jumped. Without VR, I just press the EMER JETT button. I could set that up on the HOTAS somewhere, but then the question is "Am I going to learn new ways of doing things, more complicated ways of doing things, just to get VR?"

And it WILL be more complicated. What I need is on the HOTAS, with seconary profiles on as needed. To map the EMER JETT button, it will have to be a shifted key.... or just press a clearly-marked button.

In big flight nights, interesting things could happen that would necessitate working with the ICP even more than usual in-flight. Going back to "holding my head steady as I aim for and push a button" isn't very enticing. Pushing many buttons and keeping my head steady all the time isn't my cup of tea.

Well, for BMS you can't use the Rift anyway.....

I'd agree with what Paul and Troll are saying here too regarding the graphical fidelity.......what sets VR apart though and is always hard to describe for anyone that hasn't experienced it before is the immersion and it is so good that you are prepared to take the hit in other areas because you are catapulted into a totally different experience.

The key difference is that you are 'really there' in that cockpit. You're removed from your room/gaming chair, you're not looking into a rectangular monitor (or monitors) that scroll the view around, you can't look 90 degrees and see your ornaments sat on the shelf. You are in the cockpit, the controls and gauges are there in front of you, you look left/right and there is the airfield, you look behind you and you see the back of your seat and tonnes of destructive aircraft, the audio is suddenly much better than normal because you're there, in that aircraft and DCS portrays all of this so well.

You remember the first time you used TrackIR with 6DOF and you were amazed as you sat up in the seat and twisted your head in all sorts of angles as you look over the nose of the aircraft and can see areas that weren't visible before. You called your family in, sat them down in your seat and showed them how great it was even though they have no interest and think you're a total nerd but they were still impressed (no?..just me then)........well VR is like that but only a million times better.

I think the first time I started DCS with the rift, I just sat there for 30 minutes with engines off looking around the pit with an open mouth absolutely gobsmacked and safe in the knowledge that the asking price had been immediately justified.

Stop asking questions.......just buy one

Exactly. That's one other thing that's keeping the money in my pocket.
Well, you could, technically, but there are problems with the HUD display IIRC.


Yeah, the guys with replica pits won't have this issue very much because when they reach out for a virtual switch, their fingers will find a physical one in it's place... but then what if you move from the Hog to the Viper or to the Hornet? We can't have 3 replica pits.... but I can have 3 different HELIOS profiles.

Another issue with the VR is accessing your checklists and data card....

I think for now, the bottom line is that VR is great for immersion, but is currently getting in the way of "cockpit work."


Would you have me come 'round and try your setup Daz?

Only if you take my nagging wife away with you when you leave.....and make it look like an 'accident' when you dispose of the body.

Post a pic and I'll see what I can do



Haha! See, it's not at all as great as you want it to be! No issues of "fogging up" with my screen setup, plus it's great for warming up the game room during cold winter nights!

Pretty decent pics on the last page.

Are those pics representative of leaning in to view the HUD or MFD or are they how it looks sitting at the normal sitting position?

Also how is the overall FOV (Horizontal and Vertical)? Are the side by side videos you see of the rift/vive representative of the FOV or does the actual FOV extend more (they seem decent for vertical FOV but seem a little narrow for the horizontal FOV)

Thanks,

Brett

Thanks Jorgen!