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#4290608 - 08/25/16 07:53 PM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: Ghost_swe]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 560
lokitexas Offline
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lokitexas  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 560
San Antonio, TX.
It seems like putting the cart before the horse.....again. Call me biased and salty since I still think the money I spent on BoS could have been put to better use on just about anything else.

Let me break it down. Its simple and easy.

Standard practice:

1. Make a good product.
2. Support said product in a meaningful way.
3. Treat customers of product with respect and value their opinion....good or bad.
4. Take feedback from customers of said product in order to improve it.
5. Make a profit.
6. Build on top of that success with more content/products with the revenue generated from product, in order to keep moving forward.

777 standardized practice:

1. Market a golden product, riding on the coattails of the most popular WWII sim.
2. Ask for feedback, but laugh it off, and even demean people for giving it honestly and strait forward.
3. Push aside a large base of customers with cold war tactics of suppression and label anyone that does not worship the product as a "hater".
4. Continue to TELL customers what they will like, close your ears to what they ask.
5. Realize your revenue forecast was incorrect.
6. Beg people to buy your product....so that you can "try" to make the one people were asking for from the beginning.

Have we not been down this road before? Has it not been stated....numerous times? You make a good product in the first place...then no need to beg for support money. It does NOT work the other way around. "Yeah....I know the product you bought was not up to your standards....but buy more of it....and this time...." . *Yawn*.

Jason, you play the victim too much. You try to weave the sob story too much. You try to portray a "struggle" to fight for sim fans everywhere too much. You blow up and rant too much. But...nobody would even care if the product you produced was good. People would not even care. In fact, if the product was what was expected 1/2 of the posts and rants would not be necessary.

From the bottom of heart good luck. I hope 777 is able to make a legit game out of what it is now. I hope to one day see a real IL2 sequel. Until that product is released, reviewed, and stacks up nicely, 777 will not see a nickel from me.

#4290610 - 08/25/16 08:12 PM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: lokitexas]  
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dburne Offline
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Originally Posted By: lokitexas
From the bottom of heart good luck. I hope 777 is able to make a legit game out of what it is now. I hope to one day see a real IL2 sequel. Until that product is released, reviewed, and stacks up nicely, 777 will not see a nickel from me.



I agree with this part, I am keeping a hopeful eye on future news but it will take some doing to get me to part with any more money. I hope they give me reason to sooner rather than later. We will see.

Last edited by dburne; 08/25/16 08:12 PM.

Don

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#4290611 - 08/25/16 08:14 PM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: Blade_Meister]  
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theOden Offline
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Originally Posted By: Blade_Meister
.. or I assume, the underlying meaning was move along if you don't like it?..


.. and we sure as hell did.

#4290672 - 08/26/16 03:31 AM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: lokitexas]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,052
bisher Online content
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Originally Posted By: lokitexas
Call me biased and salty


Salty it is, I like it smile

#4290704 - 08/26/16 08:29 AM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: dburne]  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 761
Speyer Offline
Member
Speyer  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 761
Originally Posted By: dburne
Originally Posted By: lokitexas
From the bottom of heart good luck. I hope 777 is able to make a legit game out of what it is now. I hope to one day see a real IL2 sequel. Until that product is released, reviewed, and stacks up nicely, 777 will not see a nickel from me.



I agree with this part, I am keeping a hopeful eye on future news but it will take some doing to get me to part with any more money. I hope they give me reason to sooner rather than later. We will see.


Pretty much where I stand.I happily spent a fortune in ROF, feel like I was suckered into pre ordering BOS, and vowed never to pre purchase ever again.
It will take a lot to rebuild my trust, but I do feel a bit happier now things 'seem' to have changed.
Time will tell.

#4290874 - 08/26/16 08:02 PM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: lokitexas]  
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,257
777 Studios - Jason Offline
Senior Member
777 Studios - Jason  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,257
Southern California or Moscow
Originally Posted By: lokitexas
It seems like putting the cart before the horse.....again. Call me biased and salty since I still think the money I spent on BoS could have been put to better use on just about anything else.

Let me break it down. Its simple and easy.

Standard practice:

1. Make a good product.
2. Support said product in a meaningful way.
3. Treat customers of product with respect and value their opinion....good or bad.
4. Take feedback from customers of said product in order to improve it.
5. Make a profit.
6. Build on top of that success with more content/products with the revenue generated from product, in order to keep moving forward.

777 standardized practice:

1. Market a golden product, riding on the coattails of the most popular WWII sim.
2. Ask for feedback, but laugh it off, and even demean people for giving it honestly and strait forward.
3. Push aside a large base of customers with cold war tactics of suppression and label anyone that does not worship the product as a "hater".
4. Continue to TELL customers what they will like, close your ears to what they ask.
5. Realize your revenue forecast was incorrect.
6. Beg people to buy your product....so that you can "try" to make the one people were asking for from the beginning.

Have we not been down this road before? Has it not been stated....numerous times? You make a good product in the first place...then no need to beg for support money. It does NOT work the other way around. "Yeah....I know the product you bought was not up to your standards....but buy more of it....and this time...." . *Yawn*.

Jason, you play the victim too much. You try to weave the sob story too much. You try to portray a "struggle" to fight for sim fans everywhere too much. You blow up and rant too much. But...nobody would even care if the product you produced was good. People would not even care. In fact, if the product was what was expected 1/2 of the posts and rants would not be necessary.

From the bottom of heart good luck. I hope 777 is able to make a legit game out of what it is now. I hope to one day see a real IL2 sequel. Until that product is released, reviewed, and stacks up nicely, 777 will not see a nickel from me.



Man I should just quit if you think I'm that bad. I really would have liked to see what would happen if some of you had been given the cards I was dealt with the people I have to deal with. C'est la vie.

And 777 is not the company name any more. It hasn't been my company for 3 years. Please use 1CGS because I am not the CEO of 1CGS. Way too much focus on me.

Jason

Last edited by 777 Studios - Jason; 08/26/16 08:02 PM.
#4290878 - 08/26/16 08:23 PM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: 777 Studios - Jason]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,662
Force10 Offline
I'm just a
Force10  Offline
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Posts: 3,662
CA
Originally Posted By: 777 Studios - Jason


Man I should just quit if you think I'm that bad. I really would have liked to see what would happen if some of you had been given the cards I was dealt with the people I have to deal with. C'est la vie.

And 777 is not the company name any more. It hasn't been my company for 3 years. Please use 1CGS because I am not the CEO of 1CGS. Way too much focus on me.

Jason


I remember you saying you were against some of those decisions early on...not doubting that. I'm curious what makes things different now...are you more in a position to have some influence over changes? Or is there someone else in charge that share's your view?


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______________________________________________________

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#4290923 - 08/27/16 02:47 AM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: Ghost_swe]  
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,806
Bearcat99 Offline
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,806
USA
It has been a while since I posted here other than a passing post.... I see some things are pretty much the same.. I see this as where RoF was .. after NEOQB got out of the way.. Personally I think it is a good thing that Jason has more of a say in what comes out than he did previously.. We will surely see how this all pans out in a year ..


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#4290930 - 08/27/16 04:58 AM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: Bearcat99]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,052
bisher Online content
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Veteran

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Originally Posted By: Bearcat99
I see some things are pretty much the same..


Salty does have a strong opinion

#4290959 - 08/27/16 11:56 AM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: Ghost_swe]  
Joined: Apr 2003
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Bearcat99 Offline
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Bearcat99  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,806
USA
Don't we all... wink


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#4290969 - 08/27/16 01:01 PM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: Ghost_swe]  
Joined: Jun 2005
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Trooper117 Online smile
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Jesus H... can we not just move on?
Always harping on about what has been... things have changed, new man in charge, lots of indicators that the game is moving in the direction we all want it to be, and yet people still moaning about before.

For once there should be a concerted effort for all to be positive...

#4290974 - 08/27/16 02:07 PM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: Ghost_swe]  
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,859
Extreme_One Offline
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Member

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,859
Southampton England
I'm positive I'll buy the game if it turns into something I actually want to play.

I'm equally positive I won't pre-order in order to 'support the genre' or 'help the developers build a better game'

#4290991 - 08/27/16 03:49 PM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: Ghost_swe]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,052
bisher Online content
I'll be your Huckleberry
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I'll be your Huckleberry
Veteran

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Posts: 13,052
Manitoba, Canada
I'm not surprised members have a need to do some venting, but I agree hopefully positive change in the game will result in positive change in attitude.

#4291013 - 08/27/16 05:29 PM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: Ghost_swe]  
Joined: Jul 2006
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mugwump Offline
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Posts: 862
Vancouver, Canuckistan
I'll echo the sentiment. I truly hope they take this series in the right direction and address the failings of the single player aspect. However, I will be taking a wait-and-see attitude this time around. I pre-ordered BOS on trust based on what I'd seen from RoF. That trust is gone. It's going to take results to earn it back.


S = k ln W
#4291019 - 08/27/16 05:44 PM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: Trooper117]  
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Force10 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Trooper117
Jesus H... can we not just move on?
Always harping on about what has been... things have changed, new man in charge


I wasn't harping...just simply asking who is in charge now. Since you seem to know...can you tell me if
Jason is in charge now? It's a simple question that shouldn't really be seen as "harping".

Thanks


Asus Z87 Sabertooth motherboard
Windows 7 64 bit Home edition
Intel I5 4670K @ 4.4 ghz
16 gig 1866mhz Corsair Vengence Pro memory
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Intel 510 series 120gb SSD (boot drive)
Samsung 840 1TB SSD
Onboard Realtek sound
______________________________________________________

Oddball from Kelly's Heroes: "If we're late, it's cause we're dead"



#4291036 - 08/27/16 06:39 PM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: Force10]  
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Cloyd Offline
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Cape Cod
I don't think Trooper was specifically responding to your post.

It does appear that Jason is control now, since Loft/Albert moved on to other projects.

#4291046 - 08/27/16 07:27 PM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: Force10]  
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Trooper117 Online smile
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Originally Posted By: Force10
Originally Posted By: Trooper117
Jesus H... can we not just move on?
Always harping on about what has been... things have changed, new man in charge


I wasn't harping...just simply asking who is in charge now. Since you seem to know...can you tell me if
Jason is in charge now? It's a simple question that shouldn't really be seen as "harping".

Thanks


No, it's not a go at any one person in particular... it's just that there is a constant whining about how people felt they were treated in the past.
We know, it's been stated over and over and over. I was one who complained as well, but months ago put that behind me as the dev's for BoS/BoM actually started moving the game forward in a slow but positive way.
The last year has shown with subsequent patches that they really were starting to listen.

Now with Jason in charge, plus all of his statements on what he wants to do in the future, I really do think a corner has been turned... Yet, it will be more difficult to realise if people keep on hashing out their same old gripes that we have all heard before... let's just move on.

#4291056 - 08/27/16 07:50 PM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: Force10]  
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Frogyy2 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Force10
Originally Posted By: 777 Studios - Jason


Man I should just quit if you think I'm that bad. I really would have liked to see what would happen if some of you had been given the cards I was dealt with the people I have to deal with. C'est la vie.

And 777 is not the company name any more. It hasn't been my company for 3 years. Please use 1CGS because I am not the CEO of 1CGS. Way too much focus on me.

Jason


I remember you saying you were against some of those decisions early on...not doubting that. I'm curious what makes things different now...are you more in a position to have some influence over changes? Or is there someone else in charge that share's your view?


It would be helpful to have these questions addressed directly rather than to have to assume answers.

#4291069 - 08/27/16 09:07 PM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: Ghost_swe]  
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gn728 Offline
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My understanding is they're still waiting on a budget approval. Until the guys who write/sign the checks kick in all this means nada...

#4291071 - 08/27/16 09:21 PM Re: I was wondering how long it would take. [Re: gn728]  
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Johnny_Redd Offline
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Originally Posted By: gn728
My understanding is they're still waiting on a budget approval. Until the guys who write/sign the checks kick in all this means nada...

Absolutely. It all sounds grand and all and I wish them luck but it really means nothing until they get the check.
Also I won't be pre ordering either. I hope it's all that we want but ill wait before handing any money over. No more early access for me BoS and DCS both have eroded my trust.


DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
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