#4288933 - 08/20/16 11:33 AM
The Battle of Long Tan
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Joined: Apr 2015
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F4UDash4
Veteran
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Veteran
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SC
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108 Australians of D Company, 6th Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment (including 3 New Zealanders). ~2,000 North Vietnamese Army and Viet Cong. A storm ridden rubber plantation in Vietnam. A nine hour battle, 50 years ago. The Battle of Long Tan <S>
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#4288934 - 08/20/16 11:44 AM
Re: The Battle of Long Tan
[Re: F4UDash4]
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,992
Stewie
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Bar Steward
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Torrevieja, Spain
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Thanks. Important to remember. This, though, brings to light one of my pet peeves. The awarding of medals.
Harry Smith, Commander D Company 6RAR, will be offered the Star of Gallantry (equivalent to the Distinguished Service Order), and Platoon Commanders Dave Sabben and Geoff Kendall, will be offered the Medal for Gallantry (equivalent to the Military Cross).
Nothing for the troops, the blokeys pulling the trigger in the face of the enemy? Really?
Mind you, it´s always been that way, hasñt it. Yes, ground troops have been awarded gongs, but in the main...the Officers I/C, at the back commanding.
Last edited by Stewie; 08/20/16 11:45 AM.
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#4288937 - 08/20/16 12:25 PM
Re: The Battle of Long Tan
[Re: F4UDash4]
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Posts: 24,078
oldgrognard
Administrator
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Lifer
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USA
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Company grade officers are not at the back commanding. US Army platoon leaders (Lieutenants) have the highest casualty rate. 20% higher than any other ranks.
Follow Me !
One of the 17 Australians killed was 2LT Sharp. So it appears that the officers had a higher casualty rate than the enlisted.
If you read carefully, there were other awards, but the focus was on those to the officers since those three were the highest awards. They just didn't mention the other awards.
"Any other unresolved concerns regarding individual awards for Long Tan will be referred to the independent Defence Honours and Awards Tribunal. The Government will consider itself bound by the Tribunal’s recommendations on these matters."
If you look at the Medal of Honor recipients, it is predominately enlisted men.
But, I will grant that awards can be weighted top heavy.
Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
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#4288942 - 08/20/16 12:55 PM
Re: The Battle of Long Tan
[Re: F4UDash4]
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,992
Stewie
Bar Steward
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Bar Steward
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Torrevieja, Spain
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Fair enough OG, I see what you´re saying. I, myself, had a 2nd Lt who was always in front. 2nd Lt Stubbington, Stubby. Us blokes with the big guns wished he´d get out of the feckin way sometimes! But look here...from 2004 but relevant. The final discrepancy is that officers have always been better rewarded than the soldiers in their charge. Today's wars are no different. The joint ground force that attacked Iraq had 25 times more enlisted men than officers. Closer to the tip of the spear, where infantry units walk among the enemy every day, the ratio approaches 40-to-1. Yet even in the Marine Corps, known to have few caste barriers, the officers are disproportionately represented among the top award winners. As of Aug. 18, Marine officers had received nine times as many Bronze Stars as the enlisted Marines (225 times as manyon a per capita adjusted basis) and 1.2 times as many earned Bronze Stars with Valor (30 times as many on a per capita basis). "I believe that the awards process has always been biased towards officers," says Maj. Gen. Smith. "Part of that can honestly be explained by the 'burdens of command' consideration. ... That said, I must admit that most of the bias is unexplainable." Source I´m not dissing Marines, god forbid. They are a hugely successful fighting force. But, in general, the above is my opinion on the way awards are handed out. Jeez, you can get a gong just for being over the horizon at the back. What the F??
Last edited by Stewie; 08/20/16 12:57 PM.
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#4288943 - 08/20/16 12:59 PM
Re: The Battle of Long Tan
[Re: oldgrognard]
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,992
Stewie
Bar Steward
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Bar Steward
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,992
Torrevieja, Spain
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Company grade officers are not at the back commanding. US Army platoon leaders (Lieutenants) have the highest casualty rate. 20% higher than any other ranks.
Follow Me !
One of the 17 Australians killed was 2LT Sharp. So it appears that the officers had a higher casualty rate than the enlisted.
If you read carefully, there were other awards, but the focus was on those to the officers since those three were the highest awards. They just didn't mention the other awards.
"Any other unresolved concerns regarding individual awards for Long Tan will be referred to the independent Defence Honours and Awards Tribunal. The Government will consider itself bound by the Tribunal’s recommendations on these matters."
If you look at the Medal of Honor recipients, it is predominately enlisted men.
But, I will grant that awards can be weighted top heavy. Damn, you were editing while I was editing
Last edited by Stewie; 08/20/16 12:59 PM.
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#4288950 - 08/20/16 02:03 PM
Re: The Battle of Long Tan
[Re: F4UDash4]
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,078
oldgrognard
Administrator
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Lifer
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USA
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"Jeez, you can get a gong just for being over the horizon at the back. What the F??"
Indeed. It is the "In Theatre" and participation awards that are really screwed up. Way too many and for insufficient reason. Cheapens the real awards.
Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
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#4289689 - 08/23/16 06:36 AM
Re: The Battle of Long Tan
[Re: F4UDash4]
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,256
Rogered
The Antipodean
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The Antipodean
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Melbourne, Vic, Australia
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If anyone wants a more in-depth look and has the time to spare, I recommend this doco. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gUSq7pxux4
Local Area Network in Australia : The LAN down under.
For a list of all the ways technology has failed to improve the quality of life, please press three. - Alice Kahn
The light that burns twice as bright burns for half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly, Roy.
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#4289725 - 08/23/16 10:28 AM
Re: The Battle of Long Tan
[Re: oldgrognard]
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,301
Nixer
Scaliwag and Survivor
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Scaliwag and Survivor
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Living with the Trees
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"Jeez, you can get a gong just for being over the horizon at the back. What the F??"
Indeed. It is the "In Theatre" and participation awards that are really screwed up. Way too many and for insufficient reason. Cheapens the real awards. +1
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Look for me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook or Tic Toc...or anywhere you may frequent, besides SimHq, on the Global Scam Net. Aka, the internet. I am not there, never have been or ever will be, but the fruitless search may be more gratifying then the "content" you might otherwise be exposed to.
"There's a sucker born every minute." Phineas Taylor Barnum
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#4289795 - 08/23/16 02:13 PM
Re: The Battle of Long Tan
[Re: F4UDash4]
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Ajay
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newbie
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Brisbane OZ
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One of my mates at work, his Dad served and was in the Battle of Long Tan, Private Phillip Rodney Dixon Dark haired chap top photo Lance Corporal-Machine Gunner. He is also the chap in the second pic in the middle with the gun and third pic with the duffel bag. Like most he never talked about any of it and unfortunately he died died of brain cancer and he never really got to know him. The last couple of weeks he has popped up in a heap of photos online in regards to Long Tan which has been tripping my mate out as he has not seen a lot of them. Seems, going by the pics he was pretty tight with 'Pom' the guy who the article is about, he had never heard of him either. We have been slowly going his old slide collection he has of his Dads which has hundreds of slides from his time in Vietnam. Going to be a long restoration project to get them over to a digital format and i have been encouraging him to see if we can do a book of sorts together about his Dad.
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#4289810 - 08/23/16 02:59 PM
Re: The Battle of Long Tan
[Re: F4UDash4]
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,992
Stewie
Bar Steward
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Bar Steward
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,992
Torrevieja, Spain
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Damn! We really need a "like" button, or something to show that we recognise/sympathise/acknowledge a post. Consider me "liking" Ajays post.
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#4290091 - 08/24/16 11:27 AM
Re: The Battle of Long Tan
[Re: Rogered]
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,301
Nixer
Scaliwag and Survivor
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Scaliwag and Survivor
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Posts: 17,301
Living with the Trees
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That documentary should be required study for any potential soldier, especially unit leaders. It is so full of important lessons they are hard to list. First off it shows how the negatives of the "fortress syndrome" can be countered with aggressive patrolling. The NVA/VC were no doubt moving in for a mass attack on the Aussies unfinished "fortress". The NVA/VC had little to no proper screening/security and then made the mistake squandering their forces piecemeal against a very brave and determined bunch of Aussies. The combined Aussie/Kiwi/US arty was employed with devastating effect by a trained F.O. on the ground with the unit in contact. Probably the key factor in saving that company from complete destruction IMHO. One gutsy bunch of Aussies for sure. Kinda hard to discount the bravery of the VC/NVA also. The Aussie survivors speak of the attackers climbing over the bodies of their own dead to continue the attack in the video. Excellent read and an outstanding video for any student of military history.
Censored
Look for me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook or Tic Toc...or anywhere you may frequent, besides SimHq, on the Global Scam Net. Aka, the internet. I am not there, never have been or ever will be, but the fruitless search may be more gratifying then the "content" you might otherwise be exposed to.
"There's a sucker born every minute." Phineas Taylor Barnum
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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