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#4271608 - 06/19/16 07:11 PM Re: End of life plan? [Re: Dart]  
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Hmmm, isn't Razor that is making an open VR.

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#4271693 - 06/20/16 01:08 AM Re: End of life plan? [Re: Dart]  
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"As we have not seen anything for RoF or BoS or any of the most popular flight sims"
May I remind you that DCS was implementing VR support themselves at the same time as 1C/777 was stating it was impossible for them or any complex sim to implement VR support?

I've been simming happily in VR in DCS, FSX and Prepar3D for quite a while now, starting with my DK2 and now with my HTC Vive, and I've seen many indie devs implement support for DX9 games, heck some of them even made some older DX8 and openGL games work amazingly well using wrappers. I just don't buy the "we can't do it". Those who chose not to implement VR did it by choice - in the case of IL2 BOS, the devs chose to state that they couldn't do it and blamed Oculus for it because they had to face frustrated customers such as myself who remembered they had promised that support in their initial pitch for IL2 BOS. They did this at the same time as a vibrant community of indie developers were releasing VR solutions for the most unexpected things everyday (and often for free). Just think about that: someone managed to make VR work for FSX - FSX of all flight sims, the one that always had been a nightmare to make run smoothly, and the one I currently use to fly WW1 crates in VR

Dutch, the Vive runs on openVR. openVR can support Vive, Rift and Razer's headsets etc. You're probably thinking of OSVR which is another open source vr SDK project that Razer is pushing.

Last edited by FlyingMonkey; 06/20/16 01:12 AM.
#4271766 - 06/20/16 02:07 PM Re: End of life plan? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
I don't think I ever bought First Eagles. Was the reception from the community mostly favorable?


Yes, you did. smile You didn't get FE2 though, since it dropped MP along with SF2.



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The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4271933 - 06/20/16 11:57 PM Re: End of life plan? [Re: FlyingMonkey]  
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Originally Posted By: FlyingMonkey

May I remind you that DCS was implementing VR support themselves at the same time as 1C/777 was stating it was impossible for them or any complex sim to implement VR support?

You don't need to remind me, if you read my post you'll have noticed I mentioned DCS, also War Thunder.

However as we are in the ROF forum, I've kept it RoF specific
777/1C dropped VR dev when Oculus dropped DX9 support. Since there doesn't seem to be any plans to completely re write Digital Nature in DX10, 11 or 12. Then I'm not holding my breathe for native support for the Cove or the Vive.

There is a chance a 3rd party will develop a wrapper/injector to bring RoF and BoS to VR, but only if it is popular enough to warrant support.
VorpX is a good example, they are bringing in new titles but as that's pay ware and they are looking for large audiences. Freeware will also be looking for a large audience, unfortunately flight Sims are not a large PC gaming market. So I don't think RoF or BoS will be high up in their priorities.

There might be some hope of Cliffs getting native support, which will be interesting.

My opinion as a DK2 owner, I'd like to see much higher res screens in the HMDs before I'm totally sold. I find the DK2 hard work for any length of time.

I much prefer my existing monitor for any long session gameplay as it's much more comfortable.

#4272204 - 06/22/16 01:49 AM Re: End of life plan? [Re: Dart]  
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I think part of the issue in our discussion has been how we use the term "native" or 1st vs 3rd party. RoF/BoS devs could implement a native or 1st party solution, ie I define that as custom code that does not fully rely on Oculus SDK or openVR (in fact I'm not sure about openVR and DX9 - It might be supported - anyone knows?), other devs did that. DCS devs did that before they ported their engine to DX11 and there was a long period of time where DCS ran in VR with the 0.6-7-8 Oculus runtimes, those runtimes with dropped DX9 support precisely.

So even now, without official Oculus support for DX9 a good coder (e.g. someone like Dan Church) can implement perfect VR support for a DX9 (and even prior DX versions), and this could be done by the devs (it comes down to their choice about what they invest or not in - and that's where I'm disappointed in the BOS devs since they had promised to develop VR support) doing it natively (ie working on their own source code with their own custom implementation) or a 3rd party (using wrappers, hacks etc).

By the way, if you can try one, you should definitely give a go at the new gen of HMDs (especially the Vive) - I had since mid 2014 and just got my Vive at the end of April, and this is a significant improvement. I can read gauges now, for small one I might need to get closer to the gauge (or use a zoom function like in FlyInside) but the clarity has improved a lot. Combat flying is definitely possible now in DCS and WT. Icons are a big help but even without them (in WT at least) I can spot planes from a distance. As a result I can't go back to monitor flying and have spend many hours in VR for simming.

Also, out of curiousity did you try FlyInside with FSX or Prepar3d? Very very much recommended. Even if you don't like flying civilian and non-combat, it's awesome if only as a virtual museum. Taking the Captain Sim B52 for example is something priceless. I also love the experience of getting in the cockpit of some vintage planes which I'll probably never see in real life. And that brings me back to the present topic: ROF planes in VR would be amazing. A pity that this dream will still have to wait many years...

Last edited by FlyingMonkey; 06/22/16 01:51 AM.
#4272241 - 06/22/16 09:59 AM Re: End of life plan? [Re: Dart]  
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For RoF (and BoS/BoM) it is the dev time taken to make DX9 work in VR for the OR or Vive. Both have SDKs to assist integration (I consider this to be native/1st party). Without DX9 support in the SDK it makes coding for VR a mission essentially coding from ground zero and 777/1C seem unwilling to take that on.

The current situation with RoF is that we are struggling to even get a skin pack released, even when Panther has completed much of the work. True VR is either never going to happen or is a long way off for RoF and will most likely rely on 3rd party wrappers such as VorpX etc. But again we are a limited audience and unlikely to be high up on anybody's list to develop for.

Never been a fan of FSX. I think DCS has given me a good insight into the potential for VR, just need the hardware to come up to make it a more enjoyable a viable platform for combat sims

#4272808 - 06/23/16 11:27 PM Re: End of life plan? [Re: Dart]  
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Why is DX11/DX12 out of the question really?

#4272999 - 06/24/16 02:24 PM Re: End of life plan? [Re: Dart]  
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Apparently a lack of desire/resources on the part of the developer. I can't tell you which is greater, but the combination of those two is primary.

I'm sure if we ever got an RoF2 it would have DX11 at least, but I'm not betting any money on that.

My Brilliant Idea for ROF2--for a fixed price, update the engine/terrain/lighting/etc to DX11/12/2016 standards. Leave the planes alone, just port them over. The 3d models and FM/DMs are still good enough. This would mean a plane bought for ROF would also work for ROF2 and no one would have to repurchase all their planes.

Right now, base ROF is free with a couple of planes. ROF2 doesn't need to be free or 100% new everything. Make it $50 for that new base. As DCS EDGE showed us, just upgrading to DX11 and lighting and such makes existing planes look quite a bit better. Making everyone repurchase all their other stuff all over again would make it a non-starter.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4273102 - 06/24/16 08:17 PM Re: End of life plan? [Re: Dart]  
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I'm not sure how easy to port over to DX11 or 12 would be.
Possibly a complete re write of the engine.

I can't even see a RoF 2 ever happening either.

I believe we have what we have and can't realistically expect anything else


#4273305 - 06/25/16 01:17 PM Re: End of life plan? [Re: Dart]  
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If they do work towards VR support I will be pleased.

But with the caveat that I still believe the hardware is still short of what is needed for serious combat flight sim.

#4273575 - 06/26/16 06:06 PM Re: End of life plan? [Re: Dart]  
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I tried to get RoF working in my DK2 with limited success.
I could not get 3d working but I did manage 2D using Vorpx and used both the native head tracking in Vorpx and also facetrack to get acceptable 2DOF tracking.

I got to a point where it was workable, no where near as good as the native support in DCS. But the real issue for me was that any lengthy cockpit time was uncomfortable and distant aircraft spotting was non existent.

Close range was not an issue, but finding the aircraft to fight was impossible. I had to either leave it to the auto pilot or use icons on.

Troll have you tried any VR yet?
If not you could borrow mine for a while to try out.



Last edited by Steve_F; 06/26/16 06:09 PM.
#4273688 - 06/27/16 03:15 AM Re: End of life plan? [Re: Dart]  
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Same experience here with RoF in my DK2 and Vorpx. One thing that contributed to making the experience not comfortable was a relatively high latency with the head tracking, which I'm guessing was due to a lot of smoothing applied by RoF on the head camera movements, so I also gave up on it. I actually wanted to give a to go this weekend with the Vive but couldn't get it to start on the current version of Vorpx.

It's already way easier to spot other planes with the Vive in comparison to the DK2, but I still like to rely on icons. Comfort wise I can fly for as long as I can get uninterrupted these days (which means that 1h or 2h is a miracle that happens maybe once per month...)

#4274110 - 06/28/16 12:21 PM Re: End of life plan? [Re: Dart]  
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Oh boy, what a timing! IL2 just had VR support added for the Vive! This is awesome and one step closer to my dream of VR in RoF (probably not, but I can dream, right?). In any case if it's implemented well enough that will get my support back to IL2 (ie I was skipping BoM but I'll buy it now). Woohoo!

#4274190 - 06/28/16 03:51 PM Re: End of life plan? [Re: Dart]  
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That is cool

#4274334 - 06/29/16 02:20 AM Re: End of life plan? [Re: ]  
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Originally Posted By: Troll
Cool! Just the Vive?


Well it uses SteamVR so this means the Oculus Rift and OSVR should work too.

But currently it looks like noone reporting on reddit and the IL2 forums has managed to make it work. I haven't been able to test it yet with my Vive, due to heavy rains my internet connexion is really crap (thanks to our 3rd world class internet infrastructure here in Australia) and my download of 5GB of IL2 updates at 1mbps is still going on...

#4274377 - 06/29/16 07:24 AM Re: End of life plan? [Re: Dart]  
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Let us know what you think if you get it working.

Will be interesting to see if it will support other headsets.
IIRC my DK2 didn't get detected by Steam VR, although DCS and steam in general picks up there is a VR headset, Steam VR said unsupported headset.

Could be that there is an API for SteamVR and the Vive and BoM is using that.

#4274378 - 06/29/16 07:41 AM Re: End of life plan? [Re: Dart]  
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Done some reading.
No OR support. BoM has been configured to work with OpenVR (Vive).
No support for OR.

Also no one has been able to get VR working yet. Game crashes.

But at least we are going in the right direction.

It is my wish that some of the dev comes back down the line one day.

2 things I want in life, RoF to get VR and 4K panels becomes the norm for VR headsets.

#4274504 - 06/29/16 02:58 PM Re: End of life plan? [Re: Dart]  
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They've made BoM Vive friendly.
From what I have read it is easier to port something in OR to OpenVR and the Vive but the opposite is harder.

In terms of Hardware I'm already close smile

i7-6700K@4600 and SLi 980ti.

Running everything @ 3440x1440.



#4274746 - 06/30/16 03:04 AM Re: End of life plan? [Re: Dart]  
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The fact that the IL2 BOS VR is implemented using openVR does mean that there should normally be no problem using a DK2 or CV1 with it - I've used steamVR many times with my DK2.

But in this case the devs require to deactivate direct mode, ie it means having the Vive appear as a second monitor, a legacy mode which both the Vive and Rift development kits used for a while but not anymore. SteamVR still lets a Vive go back to this legacy mode, but Oculus Rift has disabled that since SDK 0.8. So as long IL2 BOS relies on a non-direct mode the Oculus Rift won't be usable.

This might change though. I reckon the devs are still relying on something they implemented earlier when direct mode wasn't the main mode used, but moving to direct mode has been reported as something easy to do.

From my side, nothing to report: I'm cursed, just after the VR mode was announced by internet connection died entirely when I was at 90% of downloading the patch. Now I'll have to face a week without connection (yeah, Australia is really a 3rd world country when it comes to internet and consumer support for it)... I can't even put words on how frustrated I am...

#4287598 - 08/15/16 01:05 PM Re: End of life plan? [Re: Dart]  
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